Joy Harjo Interview: The Power of Poetry | THE THREAD Documentary Series

we're here for a reason and in the Mogi

way it is not because all the resources

were given to us by God it's like we are

here as as citizens of a

larger of of an incredible diverse place

of beings and ideas and thoughts and so

on

so storytelling is what we do

[Music]

can you tell me about how you learned

that you became the 23rd us poet

laurate yes I was living downtown we had

an apartment given to us by the I was a

Tulsa artist

fellow and uh Rob Casper was head of the

poetry and literature center of the LI

at the Library of Congress well I knew

Rob we all did I remember I had a book

an American Sunrise coming out so I got

a call from him and he says you're on

speaker

phone he says I have the librarian of

Congress Carla Hayden here who wants to

speak with

you and then she said ask me if I would

be the 23rd us poet laurate and it was

like lightning I mean I didn't and I but

I my thinking mind I'm very analytical

even as I'm very intuitive my thinking

mind started thinking you're so busy how

can you do this right now you're already

too busy I had just told my uh agent to

please don't book me any more interviews

I don't like doing he don't do me any

more interviews you know and then and

I'm thinking so that's what went through

my mind first was like H but then I knew

I had

to because it you know I'm very service

or I think we're all in service

positions and I knew it was important it

was important for native people and I

said yes I mean I couldn't say no I'm

going to jump around a little bit I want

to go back to 1975 when you published

your first book The Last Song can you

tell me about that experience yes I

wound up in creative writing classes

which I it was different for me but

there was something that took hold and

that first little book it's called the

chat book which is a book of small book

of poems and I Illustrated it but that

was exciting to have something like that

by then I was a creative writing major

that surprised me but there I was

writing poetry and I remember we were

all thinking about graduation and people

were concerned like why are you taking

poetry as a major you should be taking

education you can write poetry

anytime but something in me something

larger than myself or like was knew that

there was something in me that I knew I

had to follow it it's like knowing the

truth of something and you may not it

may be a hard road to follow it you

don't know and it's not usual but

something that wiser

self knows and if you go against it you

always

suffer I mean I didn't go into poetry

because I didn't want to suffer I went

into poetry because it became using

Words which is something I was never

that good at in regular life but using

words in what I would call a sacred and

Powerful manner overtook me and to use

them even in situations that seemed

impossible or

dire became important to

me how did your family settle in

Oklahoma can you tell me the origin

story of coming to Oklahoma back with

your great great grandfather yes that's

one story I know pretty well there's

other family lines that I don't know as

well but from the time I was conscious

in this place you know I've always been

you know I was close to my father a lot

of daughters are you know that's um was

really close to him and he was so proud

of being Mogi Creek and that was

important to him and it was also

important to me one of my Mogi Creek

lines was through manahi he fought

against Andrew Jackson in the battle of

Horseshoe Bend along with many others he

lost one of his wives at that battle and

children but he made it to Oklahoma my

aunt Lois harjo tell me a story of how

once he got here they were in the town

of

okoi and he saw a white man beating his

wife in the middle of the street and he

went and took the whip away from the man

and beat him with it he had to go into

hiding

because they were looking for him to

kill him and um I know where his grave

is when I wrote poet Warrior I left out

particulars to finding it exactly

because I didn't want people over there

or desecrating or but it's in a small

family Mogi Family Cemetery um not far

from

eala and uh there's he's buried where

he's buried there are seven cedar trees

around his grave have you visited I

visited that yeah I've been over there

can you tell me some of your earliest

memories of the msog Gatherings and

rituals well if I think of Mogi

Gatherings and rituals I just think of

my dad you know my dad because we

weren't

really social I think the social thing

came with parties at the house and The

Bootlegger lived next door you know I

think Oklahoma was dry because of the

the uh evangelicals or the church the

the power the the church has over the

state and still does and um although

it's not dry anymore and uh and so yeah

most of most of

um most of that was just family you know

most most was just family can you paint

a picture of what it would be like to

experience joining one of these parties

well it could be fun it's like any party

it could be really fun and then it could

get out of hand you know where people

are drinking because of the bo

Bootlegger but having a good time I

remember the twist remember that Fat's

Domino and and the song Blueberry Hill

and all of that you know I just I

remember those songs most of the music

we got then was radio was from the radio

or LPS were 33 33s and 7 a few 78s we

I'm not I'm kind of not the 78

generation and um so there was a lot of

music

and I like that my mom wrote songs she

um often had um some of the well-known

country swing players I mean Tulsa is

very known for its music and country

swing and the the movers and shakers so

to speak of country swing they often

came to our house and played music and

so that was cool so when I think of

those parties I think of music and I

think of dancing my parents are really

good dancers I remember years ago being

at some friend's house at tells peblo

and their Grandfather at that age he was

pretty pretty old he was probably in his

80s with white hair and he remember I

met him for the first time and he says

you know those Creeks are you guys are

really good

dancers because that's crucial to that

origin story and it has everything to do

with Mogi Creek people with manahi with

you know that music is all embedded in

the history

yeah

absolutely can you tell me what it means

to belong to Hickory

ground can you tell me about that yeah

that's my family's ceremonial ground

especially on that that line and our

people are on the roles at removal for

Hickory ground and I didn't come there I

was at another you know PE sometimes

people move around at the grounds uh

often they might belong to another

ground and go to their wife's or you

know part part's

ground and um I had been at another one

and I it was really powerful to go back

because so much of the stories are there

so many of the stories or that

connection and there are connections

that are without

words and so it was like coming home for

me to family because we're all related

ultimately everybody is but you know

there's an old old relationship and

stories that it was finding a connector