FULL INTERVIEW with Yuri Bezmenov: The Four Stages of Ideological Subversion (1984)

my father was

he is on the left here my father was

officer of the general staff of the

soviet army

he was inspector of land forces soviet

troops stationed in countries like

mongolia cuba

east european countries this is the

picture taken at the entrance of my

institute of oriental languages it's a

part of moscow state university

as every soviet student i was quote

unquote volunteering

for harvesting grain in kazakhstan

by the end of my training in school i

was recruited by the kgb

this picture was taken on that day and

you can see again how happy

it feels to be recruited by the kgb

pay special attention to number of

bottles on the table one of my functions

was to keep foreign guests

permanently intoxicated the moment they

land at moscow airport

in 1967 the kgb attached me to this

magazine look magazine a group of 12

people

arrived to ussr from united states to

cover

the 50th anniversary of october

socialist revolution in my country

from the first page to the last page it

was a package of lies

[Music]

[Music]

our conversation is with mr yuri

alexandrovich besmianov

mr besvanov was born in 1939

in a suburb of moscow he was the son of

a high-ranking soviet army officer

he was educated in the elite schools

inside the soviet union and became an

expert in

indian culture and indian languages

he had an outstanding career with

novastie which was the

pr and still is i should say the press

arm or the press agency of the soviet

union it turns out that this is also a

front

for the kgb one of his interesting

assignments was to brainwash

foreign diplomats when they visited

moscow and

he'll tell us a little bit about how

they did this and how they planted

information which eventually wound up in

the press of the free world

he escaped to the west in 1970 after

becoming totally disgusted with the

soviet system

and he did this at great risk to his

life

he certainly is one of the world's

outstanding experts on the subject of

soviet propaganda

and disinformation and active measures

mr besmianov i'd like to begin by having

you tell us a little bit about some of

your childhood memories

well the most vivid memory of my

childhood was second world war

or to be more precise the end of the

second world war when all of a sudden

united states from a friendly uh

nation which helped us to defeat

nazism turned overnight into a deadly

enemy

and it was very shocking because all

newspapers

were trying to present an image of

belligerent aggressive american

imperialism

most of the things that we were taught

is that united states

is aggressive power which is just about

to invade our beautiful

free socialist country uh that american

cia

is dropping colorado beetles on our

beautiful potato fields

to eliminate our crops and each

schoolboy had a

picture of colorado bug on the on the

back page of his

notebook and we were instructed to go

into collective fields

to search for those little colorado bugs

of course we couldn't find any

neither we could find many potatoes and

that was explained again by the

encroachments

of the decadent imperialist power

the anti-american paranoia hysteria in

in the soviet propaganda was to such an

a

of such a higher degree that many

less skeptical people or less stubborn

would really believe that united states

is just about to invade our beautiful

motherland

and some secretly hope that it will come

true

that's interesting yes well getting back

to

life inside the soviet union or inside

communist countries in general in this

country

at the university level primarily we

read and hear

that uh the soviet system is different

from ours but not that different

and that there is a convergence

developing between

all of the systems of the world and that

really doesn't make an awful lot of

difference what system you live under

because

you have corruption and dishonesty and

tyranny and

all that sort of thing from your

personal experience what is the

difference between life under communism

and life in the united states

well life is obviously very much

different for simple reason that

the soviet union is a state

capitalist economically it's a state

capitalism

where an individual has absolutely no

rights no value his life is nothing it's

just like an insect

he is disposable whereby in the united

states even the

even the worst criminal is treated as a

human being

he has a fair trial and some of them

capitalize on their crimes they they

publish their memoirs in their prisons

and get handsomely paid by your crazy

publishers

the differences of course in the daily

life

are very various depending on who

whom we are talking about in my own

private life i never suffered from

communism simply because i was brought

up in the family

of high ranking military officer

most of the doors were open for me most

of my expenses were paid by the

government

and i never had any troubles in with the

authorities or

with the police so in other words i i

would say i

i enjoyed or i had good reasons to enjoy

all the advantages of so-called

socialists

system my main

motivations to defect was had nothing to

do with affluence

it was mainly moral indignation moral

protest

rebellion against the inhuman methods of

of the soviet system

well specifically what did you object to

i objected first of all

against oppression of my own dissidents

and intellectuals and that was the most

disgusting thing that that i witnessed

as a

as a young man young student who was

brought up

a very troublesome period in our history

from stalin to khrushchev

from total tyranny and oppression to

some kind of liberalization second

when i started working for the soviet

embassy in india

i to my horror i discovered that we are

millions times more oppressive than any

colonial or

imperialist power in the history of

mankind

that my country brings to india not

freedom

progress and friendship between the

nations

but racism exploitation

and slavery and and of course economical

inefficiency to this country

since i fell in love with india i i

developed something which by kgb

standards is extremely dangerous thing

it's called split loyalty when an agent

likes a country

of assignment more than his own country

i literally fell in love with this

beautiful country

a country of great contrasts but also

great humility great tolerance and and

if philosophical and intellectual

freedoms my ancestors used to live in

caves and eat raw meat when

india was highly civilized nation six

thousand years ago

so obviously the choice was not to the

advantage of my own nation

i decided to defect and to entirely

dissociate myself from that brutal

regime

mr besmianov we've read a lot about the

concentration camps and the slave labor

camps under the stalin regime

now the general impression in america is

that those things are part of the past

are they still going on today or what is

the status yes

there is no qualitative change in in the

soviet concentration camp system

there are changes in in numbers of

prisoners

again this is uh unreliable soviet

statistics

we don't know how many political

prisoners are there in the soviet

concentration camps

but we sure know from from various

sources

that at each particular time there are

close to

25 to 30 million of soviet citizens who

are virtually kept as slaves in forced

labor

camp system the size of the population

of

country like canada is serving terms

as prisoners incredible so

um i would say that

those intellectuals who try to convince

american public that concentration camp

system is

a thing of a past are either

conscientiously misleading public

opinion

or they are not in very intellectual

people they

they're selectively blind they don't

they lack

um intellectual honesty when they say

that

well we've spoken about the

intellectuals in this country and also

the intellectuals

in the soviet union what about down

at the broad mass level do the

people in general the worker and the

working people the workers in general

and the soviet union do they support the

system do they tolerate it

what is their attitude well average

soviet citizen if there is such an

animal of course

does not like the system because it

hurts

it kills he may not understand the

the reasons he may not have enough

information

or or educational background to

understand

but i doubt very much there are many

people who are conscientiously

supporting the soviet system that are

not such

such people in ussr even those who have

all the reasons to enjoy socialism

people like myself

were a member of journalistic elite uh

they

they also hate system for for different

reasons though not because they lack

material affluence

but because they are unfree to think

they're in constant fear

duplicity split personality and this is

the greatest tragedy for my nation

well what do you think are the chances

of the people actually

overcoming their system or replacing it

there is a great possibility that system

will sooner or later

be destroyed from within that is a

self-destructive mechanism

built in into any socialist or communist

or fascist system

because there is lack of feedback

because the system does not

rely upon loyalty of population

but until and until this soviet junta is

being supported

by the western so-called imperialists

that is

multinational companies establishments

governments and let's face it

intellectuals so-called academia in the

united states is famous for supporting

the soviet system

as long as the soviet junta will keep on

receiving credits

money technology grain deals and

political recognition

from all these traitors of democracy or

freedom

uh there is no hope there is not much

hope for

for changes in my country

and the system will not collapse by

itself

simply because it's being nourished by

so-called american imperialism this is

the greatest

paradox in history of mankind when a

capitalist world supports

and actively nourishes its own destruct

destroyer destructor

i think you're trying to tell us

something oh yes

i'm trying to tell you that it has to be

stopped unless you want to end up in

in gulag system and enjoy all the

advantages of socialist

equality uh working for free

catching fleas on your body sleeping on

on the

planks of plywood in in alaska this time

i guess

that's where americans will belong

unless they will wake up of course and

force their government to stop aiding

soviet fascism

well you told us a moment ago why you

left the system

i'd like to hear the details of how you

did it it must have been a very

dangerous thing

it was not so dangerous it was crazy

first of all because defecting in india

is virtually

impossible thanks to very strong

pressure from the soviet government

excuse me you were in india on

assignment yes i was working for the

soviet embassy in new delhi

as a press officer and

uh defecting for a soviet diplomat

is next to impossible it's a suicide as

i said because

a great friend indira gandhi

pushed a law through parliament which

says and i quote

no defector from any country has a right

of political asylum

in any embassy on the territory of

indian republic

which is a masterpiece of hypocrisy no

other defector but the soviet one

needs a political asylum so knowing that

perfectly well

i i i planned a craziest

possible way to defect i studied counter

culture in

india there are there were thousands of

young american boys and girls with no

shoes long hair

smoking hush and marijuana studying

sometimes

indian philosophy sometimes simply

pretending that they study

and they greatly annoyed indian police

and they were laughing stock of indians

because obviously they were good for

nothing students

i studied carefully where they

congregate what routes they travel what

language they speak what do they smoke

and one day i simply joined a group of

hippies

to avoid detection of indian police

i was dressed as a typical hippie with

blue jeans

long cummies shirts with all kind of

nice

decorations like beads long hairs

uh i i bought a wig because for several

weeks i had to turn myself from a

conservative soviet diplomat

into a very progressive american hippie

and that was the only way that that i

could

uh avoid detection

it was very interesting experience

but it was necessary because um from my

own knowledge

as a member of soviet embassy staff

i knew that there were many cases when

soviet defectors were betrayed by

indian police and also some western

embassies played a very dirty

role in betraying the soviet defectors

according to our information

they were some i wouldn't call them

double agents but simply

a moral people working for this

for the united states embassy and uh

confining in in people like this would

be a suicide

so i had to be extremely careful i could

not trust anyone

uh and that was the that was the reason

for such a crazy way to defect well had

you been

caught in the act of trying to get out

what would have happened to you

oh most likely i would i end up in in

concentration camp

or depending on the situation and

on the on the whim of some bureaucrat

and kgb

uh maybe even executed that this is

normal practice

quietly of course not publicly

but that would be the end of my

defection of course well

when did you finally make it to the

united states uh

in 1970 after about

six months of debriefing in athens by

the cia

and i presume fbi too they let me go

first to germany then to canada that was

my decision i had to change my identity

to protect my family

and my friends in ussr

and also i was little bit paranoid

uh knowing that both soviet kgb

and probably some double agents within

american system may be after me

so i wanted to settle down as far away

as possible

i requested cia to give me some kind of

new identity and just let me go

on my own and i settled in canada i was

a student

i changed many professions from

farm help and and laundry truck driver

to instruct language instructor and

broadcaster for canadian broadcasting

corporations in montreal have you had

any threats on your life or any uh

yeah uh in about five years kgb

eventually discovered that i'm working

for canadian broadcasting

uh see i made a very big mistake i

started talk i started working for

overseas service of cbc which is similar

to

voice of america in russian language and

of course

monitoring service in ussr picked up

every new

voice uh every new announcer would

they they would make it a point to

discover who he is and in five years

sure enough slowly but surely they

discovered that i am

not thomas schuman that i am yuri

aleksandrovich bismianov and the time

working for canadian broadcasting

and undermining beautiful the town

between canada and ussr

and the soviet ambassador alexander

yakovlev

made it his personal effort to discredit

me he complained to pierre trudeau who

is known to be

a little bit soft on socialism and

the management of cbc behaved in a very

strange cowardly way unbecoming to

representatives of a

independent country like canada

they listened to every suggestion that

soviet ambassador gave

and they started shameful investigation

analyzing content of my broadcasts to

ussr

sure enough they discovered that some of

my statements were probably

to would be

offending to the soviet politburo

so i had to to leave my my job and of

course subtle intimidations they would

say something like please cross the

street carefully because you know

traffic is very heavy in quebec and

fortunately i know about the psychology

and

the logic of activity of the kgb and i

never allowed myself to be intimidated

this is the worst thing this is what

they expect a person a defector to be

intimidated once they spot that that you

are scared

they keep on developing that line and

then

uh eventually you either have to give up

entirely and and work for them

or you they neutralize you they they

would

definitely stop all kind of political

activity

which they failed to do in my case

because i was stubbornly

working for the canadian broadcasting

and

in response to their intimidations i

said that look this is a free country

and

i am as free as you are and i also can

drive very fast

and gun control is not yet established

in canada so i had a couple of good

shotguns

in my basement so welcome to visit me

someday

with your kalashnikov's machine guns so

obviously it didn't work intimidation

didn't work

so they they tried different approach

as i described they approached on the

highest level

on the level of canadian bureaucracy

and that level they were on that level

they were successful on

individual level they failed flat

mr besmianov has brought a series of

slides with him that he has taken

from the soviet union and i think this

is a good time to

take a look at the slides now the

viewers will be able to see these slides

as we talk about them yes this is a

collection of slides which are

some of them are snapshots from my

family album some of them are documents

which i smuggled from the soviet embassy

and some are reproductions from local

mass media i usually show them

to establish my credibility as a de

facto this is a picture of my

native town metish about 20 miles not

from moscow

characteristically there's a statue of

comrade lenin in the central square

this is myself at the age of seven again

characteristically on the statue of

comrade stalin

extending his friendly hand to peoples

of the world

at that age of course uh i was still

idealistically minded young communist

and um i still believe that sooner or

later things will go for better

but i realized that the system stinks

that something is fishy

and that ideology is is fake

and the uh propaganda about that

advanced soviet agriculture simply

didn't meet the criteria of reality

if they talk about uh abundance of food

and there's none

in the stores there must be something

wrong

my father was he is on the left here my

father was

officer of the general staff of the

soviet army he was inspector of land

forces

soviet troops stationed in countries

like mongolia cuba

east european countries were here alive

today

most likely he would be inspecting

soviet troops in in nicaragua angola

and many other parts of the world

fortunately he died

and he didn't see the disgrace because

deep inside he was

a russian patriot he didn't he didn't

like the idea of expanding soviet

military might

especially in the areas where we were

not welcomed at all

unlike many other military officers he

was reporting directly to the minister

of defense

bypassing kgb and diplomatic service in

other words he was a trusted

military professional and my impression

that this type of people

are much less hawkish and adventuristic

than party bureaucrats

in kremlin when american mass media

describes soviet military as potentially

dangerous counterpart for

for pentagon i simply laugh because i

know better

i know that the most dangerous part of

the soviet power structures

are not military at all most likely if

they come to power in my country there

will be more sensible

negotiators for nuclear disarmament and

withdrawal of the soviet troops from

many parts of the world but if someone

from the

party structure or the kgb structure

were to give the orders

for military they have to obey as far as

their their professional military

but they you see the triangle of power

and hate in ussr is the party at the top

the party elite the oligarchy of the

party then the military and the kgb at

the bottom

they hate each other and the the most

hated

triangle the most hated corner of the

triangle is the communist party

bureaucrats

they are the most adventuristic senile

megalomaniacs

they can start war i wouldn't be

surprised not the military

they know what war is yes at least my

father did

this is the picture taken at the at the

entrance of my

institute of oriental languages it's a

part of moscow state university

i graduated in 1963

and i just excuse me which one were you

on i i'm on the right you're on the

right and on the left is my

uh call my schoolmate vadim smirnov who

later was a

aparachid in the central committee of

the soviet

union communist party what is an

apparatchik it's it's a

it's a function it's something like

civil service in british empire

some someone who is never fired from

from the service he stays there

internally

he may not be promoted to high but he's

a dependable

bureaucrat who will stay forever

i started not only languages but also

history literature

even music i'm on this picture i'm

trying to learn

how to play musical in indian musical

instrument

i haven't tried to look like an indian

when i was second year students not bad

right

uh yes and actually it was strongly

encouraged by the

by the instructors in my school because

these the graduates of my school were

later on employed as

diplomats foreign journalists or spies

as every soviet student i was quote

unquote volunteering for

harvesting grain in kazakhstan this is a

biggest agricultural blunder of the

soviet government

but i didn't have much choice of course

because the communist motto borrowed

from the bible says those who do not

work

shall not eat and you can see me eating

therefore i was working and you can see

how happy i was about it

i went through a very extensive physical

and military training

including the manure including the

military games in

areas suburban areas of moscow

and here for example we are on the tour

in arkhangelsk area

and by the end of my training in school

i was recruited by the kgb this picture

was taken on that day and you can see

again how happy

it feels to be recruited by the kgb

our conversation with yuri alexandrovich

besmianov

who is a defector from the soviet union

a former propaganda agent

for navasti and the kgb will continue

after this message

[Music]

[Music]

all right as every student in ussr i

i went through very extensive physical

and military training

and civil defense training too unlike in

united states

where civil defense is virtually

non-existent

zero in ussr every student

whatever is major subject has to go

through very extensive four-year

military and civil defense training

you can see me here with the group of

students during one of the war games in

near moscow the

main idea of course is to prepare a

huge reserve army of of the ussr

each student has to to graduate as a

junior lieutenant

in my case it was administrative and

military

intelligence service my first assignment

was to

india as a translator with the soviet

economical aid group

building refinery complexes in bihar

state and gujarat state

at that time i was still naively

idealistically believing that what i was

doing contributes to the

understanding and cooperation between

the nations

uh it took me quite a number of years to

realize that what we were bringing to

india was

a new type of colonialism thousand times

more oppressive and

exploitative than any colonialism or

imperialism in history of mankind

but at that time i was still hoping that

well maybe it's not that bad could be

worse and things may go for better

and i even tried to implement the

beautiful marxist motor proletarians of

all the countries unite

i tried to unite with the nice indian

girl

and i was actually i was fascinated by

indian culture by

by the family life in in this country

but obviously communist party had

different plans for my genes

so i had to marry this beautiful russian

girl

in the span of my career i married three

times

most of these marriages were marriages

of convenience

on advice from the department of

personnel this is normal practice in

ussr when a soviet citizen

is assigned to a foreign job he has to

be married

either to keep family in ussr as

hostages or

if it's a convenience marriage like mine

uh so that the husband and wife are

virtually informers on

each other to prevent defection or

contamination by decadent imperialist or

capitalist ideas

in my case i hated that girl so much

that the moment i landed in moscow we

we were divorced and i i married

later second time by the end of my first

assignment

in india i was promoted to the position

of

public relation officer you can see me

here translating

a speech by a soviet boss and you're on

the right i'm on the right here

yes and it was the occasion was

commissioning of the refinery complex in

bihar

barrani uh back in moscow

i was immediately recruited by novice

press agency which is a propaganda and

ideological subversion front for the kgb

75 percent of the members of the novosti

are

commissioned officers of the kgb the

other 25

are like myself co-opted agents who are

assigned to specific operations in this

particular case you can see me talking

to

students of lumumba friendship

university in moscow

um this is the you know a huge school

under the direct control of the kgb and

central community

where future leaders of the so-called

national liberation movements are being

educated

and selected carefully and some of them

have absolutely

neither this for example is a group of

students from lumumba they don't look

like students at all they look more like

military and that's exactly what they

were

they were dispatched back to their

countries to be leaders of the

so-called national liberation movements

or to be translated into normal human

language

leaders of international terrorist

groups

another uh area of activity

when i was working for the nova sc was

to accompany groups of so-called

progressive intellectuals

writers journalists publishers

teachers professors of of colleges

you can see me here in kremlin i'm

second on the left

with a group of pakistani and indian

intellectuals

most of them pretended they don't

understand that

we are actually working on behalf of the

soviet government and the kgb

they pretended that they are actually

being guests

a vip intellectuals that they are

treated according to their merits and

and their intellectual abilities for us

they were just

a bunch of political prostitutes to be

taken advantage for various propaganda

operations therefore you can see

perfectly well

the senior colleague of mine on the left

doesn't really have that much respect on

his face

and myself with a very skeptical smile

typical kgb sarcastic smile anticipating

another victim of of ideological

brainwashing

this is how at a typical uh

conference in novosti headquarters in

moscow look likes

the sitting in the middle is boris

burkhoff the then

director of navy press agency high

ranking party bureaucrat

in the department of propaganda i am

standing next to a

famous indian poet sumitra nandan pant

he was famous because he was an author

he was the author of the famous

poem titled rhapsody to lenin that's why

he was invited to ussr

and everything was paid by the soviet

government

the pay special attention to number of

bottles on the table this is one of the

ways to kill the awareness or

curiosity of foreign journalists

my one of my functions was to keep

foreign guests

permanently intoxicated the moment they

land at moscow airport

i had to take them to the vip launch and

toast to friendship and understanding

between the nations of the world

glass of vodka then the second glass of

vodka and in no time my guests would be

feeling very happy

they would see everything in kind of

pink nice color

and that's the way i i had to keep them

permanently for the next 15 or 20 days

at certain point in time i had to

withdraw alcohol from them

so that some of them who are the most

recruitable would feel a little bit

shaky

guilty trying to remember what they were

talking last night

that's the time to approach them with

all kind of nonsense such as

joint communicate or statement for for

soviet propaganda

that's the time they are the most

flexible

and of course what they didn't

understand they didn't realize or

pretended not to realize that

myself who was drinking together with

them was not drinking at all

i had ways to get rid of alcohol through

various techniques including

special pills which were given to me by

my colleagues

but they were taking it seriously in

other words they they would consume

quite a

large volumes of alcohol and feel quite

uneasy next morning

in 1967 the kgb attached me to this

magazine look magazine a group of 12

people

arrived to ussr from united states to

cover

the 50th anniversary of october

socialist revolution in my country

from the first page to the last page it

was a package of lies

propaganda cliche which were presented

to american

readers as opinions and deductions of

american journalists

nothing could be far from truth this

were not

opinions they were not opinions at all

they were

the cliches which the soviet propaganda

wants

american public to think that they think

that if it does make any sense at all

it sure does because from the viewpoint

of the soviet propaganda although there

are some subtle criticism of the soviet

system

the basic message is that russia today

is a nice functioning

efficient system supported by majority

of population

that's the biggest lie and of course

american intellectuals and journalists

from look magazine

elaborated on that untruth in various

different ways they intellectualized

that lie

they found all kinds of justifications

for telling lies to american public

this is excuse me it was partly your job

to make sure that they got these ideas

and accepted them as their own ideas

right actually

even before they arrived to ussr and

they paid astronomical sum of money for

that visit

uh they were submitted this novice press

agency developed so-called backgrounders

20 25 pages of information and opinions

which were presented to the journalists

even before they bought their tickets to

moscow they had to analyze this

situation and judging on their reaction

to that background

the local novice representative or local

soviet

diplomat in washington dc would assess

whether they

have whether they be given visa to ussr

or not but they were selected oh yes

they were they were pre-selected

very carefully and there is not much

chance for honest journalists to arrive

to ussr

and to stay there for one year and to

bring this

package of lies back home this for

example

is a center fold of the tie of the look

magazine

they presented this monument erected by

communist party in stalingrad

as the symbol personification of russian

military might

and they said in the article which is

published

on the side that soviets are very proud

of the victory in the second world war

this is another big myth a lie no

sensible people would be proud to lose

20 millions of their countrymen

in the war which was started by genocide

hitler

and comrade stalin and paid by american

multinationals

most of the soviet citizens look at this

type of monuments with disgust

and sorrow because every family lost

father brother

sister or child in the second world war

yet american journalists who were trying

to

appease to please their hosts presented

this picture on the center fold

as the symbol and personification of

soviet national

they call it russian national spirit

and it was greatest greatest

misconception

and a very tragic misunderstanding

of course look magazine was not

distributed in ussr

the main audience was in the united

states

but i presume that many americans

millions of americans who were reading

look magazine at that time

had absolutely wrong idea about the

sentiments of my nation about what the

soviets are proud of and what they hate

this is a group you see the same lady

with this ward

in stalingrad this is the group of

journalists myself is in the center with

the same devilish smile

and mr philip harrington is on the

extreme left

there with with his camera this is the

gentleman

which was so deaf

or so uninterested in what i had to say

to him

this is the same picture a blow up of

the same the same picture

many many guests from various countries

in this particular case from asia and

africa were taken by me

as a novice to press agency employee

for a tour across siberia for example we

would show them

typical kindergarten you see nothing

special by american standards

just nice children sitting eating their

breakfast or or lunch

what they could not understand or they

pretended not to understand that this is

an exemplary kindergarten this is not

the kindergarten for average person or

average family in ussr

and we maintain that illusion in their

minds

you can see myself under the red spot in

the middle there with the same

business-like expression i'm on you know

i'm doing my job that that's what i'm

assigned to do and that's what i was

paid to do

but deep inside i still hope that at

least some of these

useful idiots would understand that what

they are looking at has nothing to do

with the level of affluence

in my nation this is a better picture

which reflects the true spirit of

of the soviet uh soviet childhood

this picture was printed in a canadian

government publication

by mistake in the middle you can see

children playing on a

small courtyard and the caption goes

this is a typical kindergarten in

siberia

what these idiots didn't understand that

it is not kindergarten at

all it is a prison for children of

political prisoners

but there was not a single mentioning

that what they were visiting

actually was an area of concentration

camps

and the job of people like myself to

help them

to not to notice that they are actually

talking to prisoners

most of the children were dressed

especially on the occasion of the

foreigners visit

the of course there were no corpses in

on the ground

there were no machine gun guards and the

well it looks not very pleasant as you

see it looks dull but obviously it does

not create an impression that this

is actually a prison well did any of the

journalists have the

uh curiosity to ask about uh prisons and

that kind of thing they were in siberia

this is what you

saw yes some of them asked questions and

naturally we would give them the

for the stupid question we give them

stupid answer no there are no prisons in

siberia no

most of the people who you see are free

citizens of ussr they are very happy to

be here

and they are contributing to the glory

of the socialist system

uh some of them pretended that they they

believe what what i was

telling them and um most of them

we may discuss it later what are the

motivations of these people

why would they stubbornly bring lies to

their own population

through their own mass media i have

various answers to this there is not a

single explanation

it's a complex of explanations it's fear

pure biological fear they understand

that they are on the territory of an

enemy state a police state and just to

save their rotten skins

and their miserable jobs their affluence

back home

they would prefer to tell a lie then to

to ask

truthful questions and and report

truthful information

second most of these schmucks were

afraid to lose their jobs because

obviously if you tell truth about my

country you will not last long as a

correspondent of new york times

or los angeles times they will fire you

what kind of correspondent are you you

obviously cannot find common language

with russians

if they kick you out in 24 hours so

just by by trying to be conformist to

their own editorial bosses

they tried not to offend the sentiments

of the soviet administrators and people

like myself

deep inside i hope they would insult my

uh or offend my sentiments obviously

they preferred not to

another reason uh i did i refuse to

believe it but

obviously there is another reason

obviously

it's agreed these people earn a lot of

money

when they come back to usa they claim

that they are experts in my country

they write books which sells in million

copies titled like russians the truth

about russia

most of it is lie about russia yet they

claim to be sovietologists

they they break they play back myth

about my country

the propaganda cliches yet they are

stubbornly resist

the word of truth if a person like

solzhenitsyn is either defecting or

kicked out of ussr

they try all their best to dis to

discredit him and to discourage him

i don't have much chance to appear on

national network

uh with the true story about my country

but a useful edit like hendrick smith or

robert kaiser

they are big heroes they come back from

ussr they say oh we were talking to

dissidents in russia

big deal soviet distances are chasing

american correspondents

in the streets and they are cowardly

escaping from these contacts

for some strange reason if you want to

know more about spain

you refer to spanish writers if you want

to learn more about french

you read french or writers

even about antarctica i bet you would

read penguins

only about the soviet union for some

strange reason

you read hendricks and schmendricks and

all kind of kissingers

because they claim that they know more

about my country they know

nothing or next to nothing or they

pretend that they know

more than they actually do i would say

they are dishonest

people who lack integrity and

common sense and intellectual honesty

they bring back

all kind of stories like that a

kindergarten in siberia

a meeting the most important fact it's a

prison

for children of political prisoners

another greatest example of monumental

idiocy

of american politicians edward kennedy

was in moscow

and he thought that he is a popular

charismatic

american politician who is easy going

who can smile

dance at the wedding in in russian

palace of marriages

what he does what he did not understand

or maybe he pretended not to understand

that actually he was being taken

for a ride this is a staged bedding

especially to impress

foreign media or or useful idiots like

ed kennedy

most of the of the guests there they had

security clearance

and they were instructed what to say to

foreigners

this is exactly what i was doing you can

see me in the same damn

bedding palace in moscow where ed

kennedy was dancing here

you see smiling he thinks he is very

smart

from the viewpoint of russian citizens

who observe this idiocy

he is he's narrow-minded

egocentrical idiot who tries to earn his

own popularity through the

uh through participation in propaganda

forces like this

here you can see myself on the right

again

exemplary soviet bride on the left three

journalists from various countries asia

africa and latin america

obviously they enjoying the situation

they they will go back home and write

the reports we were present and

on the regular soviet wedding they were

not present on the regular soviet

they were present they were part of a

farce of a circus performance

another thing which i had to

sometimes risking my life to explain to

foreigners

time magazine for example is very

critical of

south african racist regime

the whole article was dedicated to the

shameful internal passport system where

black

blacks are not allowing to live with

whites

for some strange reason for the last 14

years since my defection nobody wanted

to pay attention to my passport

this is my passport it also shows my

nationality

and it it has a police rubber stamp

which is called prapiska

in russian language which assigns me to

a certain

area of residence i cannot leave that

area

same way as this black man cannot leave

the area

in south africa yet we call south

african government racist regime

not a single jane jane schmonder or

fonda is

brave enough courageous enough to come

to media and say

look this is what happens in ussr i send

a copy of my passport to many

american liberals and civil rights uh

defenders

and all the other useful idiots they

never they never bothered to answer me

back

this shows what kind of integrity what

kind of honesty these people are

they're a bunch of hypocrites because

they don't want to recognize

a good example of racism in my country

this is the first stage of befriending a

professor you can see myself on the left

with the same james bond

smile on my on the right is my kgb

supervisor congratulations

and in the middle a professor of

political science in delhi university

the next stage would be to invite him to

a gathering of in the soviet friendship

society there he is sitting next to his

wife

before he is being sent to ussr for free

trip

everything is paid by the soviet

government he was made to believe that

he is invited to ussr because he is a

talented

sober thinking intellectual

absolutely false he is invited because

he is a useful idiot

because he would agree and subscribe to

most of the soviet propaganda cliche

and when he is coming back to his own

country he is going for years and years

to teach the beauties of soviet

socialism to

newer and newer generations of his

students thus promoting the soviet

propaganda line

the kgb was even curious about

this gentleman it may look innocent

maharishi mahesh yogi

a great spiritual leader or maybe a

great charlatan and crook

depending on which from which side you

are looking at him

beetles were trained at his ashram in

hardware in

india how to meditate mia faro and and

other

uh useful idiots from hollywood visited

his

uh school and they returned back to

united states absolutely zonked out of

their minds with marijuana

hashish and crazy ideas of meditation

to meditate in other words to isolate

oneself

from the current social and political

issues of your own country

to get into your own bubble to forget

about troubles of the world

obviously kgb was very fascinated with

such a beautiful school

such a brainwashing center for stupid

americans

i was dispatched by the kgb to check

what kind of vip

americans attend this school that's you

on the left yes i'm on the left

i i i was trying to get enrolled in that

school unfortunately

maharishi mahashiyogi asked too much he

wanted 500 american dollars for

enrollment

but my function was not actually to get

enrolled in the school my function was

to discover

what kind of people from united states

attend

this school and we discovered that yes

there are some

influential members of family

public opinion makers of united states

who come back with the crazy stories

about indian philosophy

indians themselves look up upon them as

idiots

useful idiots to say nothing about kgb

who looked at them as as

as extremely naive misguided people

obviously a vip say a wife of

of a congressman or or a prominent

hollywood personality

after the after being trained in that

school is much more

instrumental in the hands of of

manipulators of public opinion

and kgb than a normal person who who

understands who who looks through this

this this this type of

fake religious training why would they

be more susceptible to manipulation

i just mentioned that because you see a

a person

who is too much involved in in

in introspective meditation you see if

you carefully look what what maharishi

mahashiyogi is teaching to

to americans is that all most of the

problems

most of the burning issues of today can

be solved simply by meditating

don't don't don't rock the boat don't

get involved

just sit down look at your navel and

meditate and the things

due to some strange logic due to cosmic

vibration will will

will settle down by themselves this is

exactly what the kgb and marxist

leninist propaganda wants from americans

to destruct their opinion uh attention

and

mental energy from real issues of united

states

into a non-issues into a non-world

non-existent

harmony obviously it's more beneficial

for the soviet aggressors

to have a bunch of duped americans than

americans who are self-conscious

healthy physically fit and alert

to the reality maharishi mahesh yogi

obviously is not on the payroll of the

kgb

but whether he knows it or not he

contributes greatly to demoralization of

american society

and he is not the only one there are

hundreds of those gurus

who come to you to your country to

capitalize on naivete

and stupidity of americans it's a

fashion

it's a fashion to meditate it's a

fashion not to be involved

so obviously you can see that if if kgb

were

that curious if they paid my trip to

hardware if they assigned me to that to

that strange

job obviously they were very much

fascinated

they were convinced that that type of of

brainwashing is very efficient

and instrumental in demoralization of

united states

our conversation with yuri alexandrovich

besmienov

who is a defector from the soviet union

a former propaganda agent

for navasti and the kgb will continue

after this message

[Music]

[Music]

this picture shows the part of the

building of ussr

embassy and my supervisors on the left

is comrade mehdi

an indian communist and on the right

komrad mit rohin

my supervisors in the secret department

of research and country propaganda

it has nothing to do with either

research or country propaganda

most of the activity of the department

was to compile huge

amount volume of information on

individuals who were instrumental in

creating public opinion

publishers editors journalists

actors educationalists professors of

political science

members of parliament uh representatives

of business circles

most of these people were divided

roughly into groups

those who would tow the soviet foreign

policy they would be promoted to the

positions of power

through media and public opinion

manipulation those who refused the

soviet influence in their own country

would be character assassinated or

executed physically come revolution

same way as in the small town of huwa in

south vietnam

several thousands of vietnamese were

executed in one night

when the city was captured by viet cong

for only two days

an american cia could never figure out

how could possibly communists

know each individual where he leaves

where where to get him

and would be arrested in one night

basically

in some four hours before dawn put on a

van

taken out of the city limits and shot

the answer is very simple

long before communists occupied the city

there was extensive network of

informers local vietnamese citizens

who knew absolutely everything about

people who are instrumental in public

opinion

including barbers and taxi drivers

everyone who was sympathetic to united

states was executed

same thing was done under the guidance

of of the soviet embassy in hanoi and

same thing i was doing in new delhi

to my horror i discovered that in the

files where people were doomed

to execution there were names of

pro-soviet journalists with whom

i was personally friendly yes

they were idealistically minded leftists

who

made several visits to ussr and yet the

kgb decided that com revolution or

drastic changes in political structure

of india they will have to go why is

that

because they know too much simply

because you see the useful idiots the

the leftists who are

idealistically believing in the beauty

of soviet socialist or communist or

whatever system

when they get disillusioned they become

the worst enemies

that's why my kgb instructors

specifically made the point

never bother with leftists forget about

these political prostitutes

aim higher this was my instruction

try to get into into a large circulation

established conservative media reach

filthy reach movie makers intellectuals

so-called academic circles

cynical egocentric people who can look

into your eyes with angelic expression

and tell you a lie

this are the most recruitable people

people who lack moral principles

who are either too greedy or to

suffer from self-importance they feel

that

they they matter a lot these are the

people who

kgb wanted very much to recruit but to

eliminate the others to execute the

others

don't they serve some purpose wouldn't

they be the ones that realize they serve

purpose only at the stage of

destabilization of a nation for example

your leftists in the united states all

these professors and all these

beautiful civil rights defenders they

are instrumental in the process of the

of the uh

subversion only to destabilize the

nation

when their job is completed they're not

they're not needed anymore

they know too much some of them when

when they get disillusioned when they

see that marxist lenin has come to power

obviously they get offended they think

that they will come to power

that will never happen of course they

will be lined up against the wall and

shot

but they may turn into the most bitter

enemies

of marxist leninist when they come to

power and that's what happened in

nicaragua you remember most of these

former marxist leninists were either put

to prison

or one of them split and now he's

working against sandinistas

it happened in grenada when maurice

bishop

was he was already a marxist he was

executed by by a new marxist who was

more marxist than this marxist

same happened in afghanistan when uh

first there was taraki he was killed by

amin and amin was killed by

karmal with the help of kgb same

happened in in bangladesh when mujibur

rahman very pro-soviet leftist

was assassinated by his own

marxist-leninist

military comrades it's the same pattern

everywhere

the moment they serve their purpose all

the useful idiots are used

either be executed entirely all the

idealistically minded marxists

or were exiled or put in prisons like in

cuba many many former marxists are in

cuba

i mean in prison so most of the indians

who were cooperating with the soviets

especially without the department of

of uh information of the ussr embassy

were

listed for execution

and when i discovered that fact of

course i was sick i was mentally and

physically sick i thought that i'm going

to explode one day

during the briefing of the ambassador's

office i would stand up and say

something that

we are basically a bunch of murderers

that's what we are we

it has nothing to do with friendship and

understanding between the nation and

blah blah blah

we are murderers we behave as a bunch of

thugs

in in a country which which is

hospitable to us a country which

with ancient traditions but i i did not

defect i tried to get the message across

to my

horror nobody wanted even to listen

least of all to believe what i had to

say

and i tried all kind of tricks i would i

would i would

leak information through letters uh or

lost documents or something like that

and still i got no message

the message was not published even in

the conservative mass media of

india the immediate impulse to defect

was bangladesh crisis which was

described by american correspondents

as islamic grassroots revolution which

is

absolute baloney there was nothing to do

with islam

and there was no grassroots revolution

actually there are no grassroots

revolutions period

any revolution is a byproduct of a

highly organized group

of conscientious and professional

organizers

but has nothing to do with grassroots in

bangladesh

it was nothing with grassroots most of

the

avami league party members of amilign's

people's

party were trained in moscow in the high

party school

most of the mukti fault leaders

muktifajis in bengali means people's

army

same as swappo and and all kind of

liberation armies all over the world

the same bunch of useful idiots they

were trained at lumumba university and

various centers of the kgb in sinfiropol

in

in crimea and in tashkent

so when i saw that india indian

territory is being used as a as a

jumping board

to destroy east pakistan i saw myself

thousands of of so-called students

traveling through india to east pakistan

through the territory

of india and indian government pretended

not to see what was going on

they knew perfectly well the indian

police knew it the intelligence

department of indian government

knew it the kgb of course knew it and

the cia knew it

that that was most infuriating because

when i defected and i explained to the

cia debriefers

they should watch out because east

pakistan is going to erupt any moment

they said i i was i was reading to too

many james bond novels

anyway so east pakistan was doomed

uh one of my colleagues in in the soviet

consulate in kolkata when he was dead

drunk he ventured into the basement

to relieve himself and he founded big

boxes

which said printed matter to dhaka

university

dhaka is the capital of his pakistan and

since he was drunk and curious he opened

one of the boxes and he discovered not

printed matter he discovered kalashnikov

guns and ammunition in there

anyway it's a long story when i saw the

preparations for the

for the uh invasion into east pakistan

obviously i wanted to defect immediately

the only thing i couldn't

i couldn't at that time make up my mind

when

and where and how one of the reasons of

course you see

i was in love with india i mentioned it

before

i spoke the languages i socialized with

people

and i understood that i had to to act

fast

unless i want this beautiful country to

be permanently and

irreparably damaged by our presence

one of the reasons not to defect was as

you can see i was living in relative

affluence

who the hell in in the normal mind

would defect and do what to be abused by

your media

to be called mccarthyist and fascist and

paranoid

or to drive a taxi in new york city what

for what the hell for should i defect

to be abused by americans to be insulted

in exchange for my effort to bring the

truthful information about

impending danger of subversion as you

can see i was living

in quite a comfortable conditions next

to swimming pool where

indians were not allowed by the way i

was highly paid expert in propaganda

i had my family i was respected by my

nation

my career was cloudless the third reason

how to defect with the family

to defect with the baby and the wife

would be virtual suicide because

according to law that hypocritical law

which i quoted before

the indian police will have to hand me

over back to the kgb

and that will be the end of my defection

and probably my life

again i cannot smuggle my wife

because she was not quite sure what what

i was doing she was not that

idealistically involved and she was

definitely not in in the total picture

of what i was doing for the kgb

she would be shocked if i if i

you know put her in my van and drive her

to american embassy or elsewhere

that would be a greatest danger so

again i had to defect in such a way that

my defection would look

as simple disappearance and there were

many cases like that

when the soviet agents simply

disappeared either killed in action

or thanks to their curiosity and and

their close contacts with radicals some

of them were killed by the marxist by

the way

it happened in many african countries

when the soviet kgb were killed by

africans themselves not because they

hated marxism leninist but because they

were simply trigger happy

bunch of unruly characters if you give

them machine gun they will shoot

and some of the soviets obviously were

not careful enough to protect themselves

and they got into embarrassing

situations when they were shot

at the crossfire between factions of

so-called liberation movements

anyway so i i decided as i said to study

the

counter culture i decided this probably

would be the best way to disappear

i socialize with characters like this on

the left

you see he's a barefoot american hippie

it took me quite a long time to study

exactly what they were doing and how to

mix with them

but eventually i did it most of indian

newspapers carried my picture

and promise of 2 000 rupees for

information

about my whereabouts but they were

looking for wrong person because they

obviously tried to stop a young soviet

diplomat

in white shirt and thai and this is how

i looked at the time of defection nobody

could possibly

think that the soviet diplomat would be

as crazy as to join a bunch of hippies

that's you yes travel indian smokehouse

so

i made it literally almost like a

hollywood style

detective story uh from under the nose

of the kgb in bombay airport

i landed the plane and i flew to to

greece where i was debriefed by the cia

that's basically the most that's all for

my

slides we can turn off the projectors

and that's very interesting

well you spoke several times before

about ideological subversion that is a

phrase that

i'm afraid some americans don't fully

understand when

the soviets use the phrase ideological

subversion what do they mean by it

ideological subversion is is the process

which is legitimate overt

and open you can see it with your own

eyes all you have to do all american

mass media has to do is to unplug their

bananas from their ears

open up their eyes and they can see it

there's no mystery there's nothing to do

with espionage

i know that espionage intelligence

gathering looks more romantic

it sells more deodorants through the

advertising probably that's why

your hollywood producers are so crazy

about james bond

type of thrillers but in reality

the main emphasis of the kgb is not in

the area of its

intelligence at all according to my

opinion and opinion of many defectors of

my caliber

only about 15 of time money and

manpower is spent on espionage as such

the other 85 percent

is a slow process which we call either

ideological subversion or active

measures

activeness in the language of the kgb

or psychological warfare what it

basically means is

to change the perception of reality of

every

american to such an extent that despite

of the abundance of information

no one is able to come to sensible

conclusions

in the interests of defending themselves

their families

their community and their country it's a

great brainwashing process which goes

very slow and is divided in four basic

stages

uh the first one being demoralization it

takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize

a nation

why that many years because this is the

minimum number of years which requires

to

educate one generation of students

in the country of of of your enemy

exposed to the ideology of the enemy

in other words marxism leninism ideology

is being pumped into the soft heads of

of at least three generations of

american students without being

challenged or counterbalanced by the

basic values

of americanism american patriotism the

result

the result you can see most of the

people who graduated in 60s

dropouts or half-baked intellectuals are

now occupying the positions of power in

the government

civil service business mass media

educational system

you are stuck with them you cannot get

rid of them they are contaminated they

are

programmed to think and react to certain

stimuli

in a certain pattern you cannot change

their mind even if you if you

expose them to authentic information

even if you prove that white is white

and black

is black you still cannot change the

basic

perception and the logic of behavior

in other words these people the process

of demoralization

is complete and irreversible to get rid

society of these people you have you

need

another 20 or or 15 years

to educate a new generation of

patriotically minded

and and common common sense

people who would be acting in

favor and in the interests of of the of

united states society and yet these

people have been programmed and as you

say in place

and who are favorable to an opening with

the soviet concept

these are the very people who would be

marked for extermination in this country

most of them yes

simply because the psychological shock

when they will see in future what the

what the beautiful

society of equality and social justice

means in practice

obviously they will revolt they they

will

they will be very unhappy frustrated

people

and the marxist leninist regime does not

tolerate these people

they obviously they will join the links

of the centers

dissidents uh unlike in present

united states there will be no place for

descent in future marxist leninist

america here you can you can get

popular like daniel ellsberg and filthy

rich like jane fonda

for being dissident for criticizing your

pentagon

in future these people will be simply

squashed like cockroaches

nobody is going to pay them nothing for

their beautiful noble ideas of equality

this they don't understand and it will

be greatest shock for them of course

the demoralization process in the united

states is basically completed already

uh for the last 25 years actually it's

over fulfilled because

demoralization now reaches such areas

where previously

not even comrade and drop off

would even dream of such a tremendous

success

most of it is done by americans to

americans

thanks to lack of moral standards as i

mentioned before

uh exposure to true information does not

matter anymore

a person who was demoralized is unable

to assess

true information the facts tell nothing

to him

uh even if i shower him with information

with

authentic proof with documents with

pictures

even if i take him by force to the

soviet union and show him concentration

camp

he will refuse to believe it until

he is going to receive a kick in the in

his fat bottom

when the military boot crashes his then

he will understand

but not before that that's the tragic of

the situation of demoralization

so basically america is stuck with

demoralization and

unless even if if you start right now

here this minute you start educating new

generation of americans

it will still take you 15 to 20 years to

turn the tide

of ideological perception of reality

uh back to normal normalcy and

patriotism the next stage is

destabilization

this time subverter does not care about

your ideas and the patterns of your

consumption

whether you eat junk food and get fat

and flop it doesn't matter anymore

this time and it takes only from two to

five years to destabilize the nation

uh it's what what matters is essentials

economy foreign relations defense

systems

and you can see it quite clearly that in

some areas

in such sensitive areas as defense

and economy the influence of marxist

leninist

ideas in the united states is absolutely

fantastic i could never believe it 14

years ago when i landed

in this part of the world that the

process will go that fast

the next stage of course is crisis it

may take only

up to six weeks to to bring a country to

the verge of crisis

you can see it in in central america now

and after crisis

with a violent change of of power

structure and economy

you have so-called the period of

normalization it may last indefinitely

normalization is a cynical expression

borrowed from soviet propaganda

when the soviet tanks moved into

czechoslovakia in 68

comrade brezhnev said now the situation

in brotherly czechoslovakia is

normalized

this is what will happen in the united

states if you allow all the schmucks to

bring the country to crisis

to promise people all kind of goodies

and the paradise on earth

to to destabilize your economy

to eliminate the principle of free

market competition

and to put a big brother government

in washington dc with the benevolent

dictators like walter mondale

who will promise lots of things never

mind whether the promises are

fulfillable or not

he will go to moscow to kiss the bottoms

of new

generation of soviet assassins never

mind he will create

false illusions that the situation is

under control situation is not

under control situation is disgustingly

out of control

most of the american politicians media

and educational system

trains another generation of people who

think they

are living at the peace time false

united states is in the state of war

undeclared

total war against the basic principles

and the foundations of this system

and and the initiator of this war is not

covered on drop off of course

uh it's it's the system however

ridiculous it may sound

the world communist system or the world

communist conspiracy whether i scare

some people or not

i don't give a hoot if if you are not

scared by now

nothing can scare you but you don't have

to be paranoid about it

what what actually happens now that

unlike myself

you have literally several years to live

on unless united states wake up

the the time bomb is ticking with every

second the disaster is coming closer and

closer

unlike myself you will have nowhere to

defect to

unless you want to live in antarctica

with penguins this is it this is the

last country of freedom

and possibility okay so what do we do

what is your recommendation to the

american people well

uh the the uh the immediate thing that

comes to my mind

is of course there must be a very strong

national effort to educate people in in

in the spirit of real patriotism number

one number two

to to explain them the real danger of

socialist communist whatever welfare

state

big brother government if people will

fail to grasp the

impending danger of that development

nothing ever can help united states you

may kiss goodbye to your freedom

including freedoms to homosexuals to

a prison inmate all this freedom will

vanish evaporating in five seconds

including your precious lives

the second thing i the moment at least

part of united states

population is convinced that the danger

is real

they have to force their government and

i'm not talking about sending letters

signing petitions

and all this beautiful noble activity

i'm talking about

forcing united states government to stop

aiding communism because there is no

other problem

more burning and urgent than to stop the

soviet military industrial complex

from destroying what is whatever is left

of the free world

and it is very easy to do no credits

no technology no money no political or

diplomatic recognition

and of course no such idiocy as grain

deals to ussr

the soviet people 270 millions of

soviets will be

eternally thankful to you if you stop

aiding a bunch of murderers who sit now

in kremlin

and whom president dragon respectfully

calls government they do not govern

anything

least of all such complexity as the

soviet economy

so basic two very simple maybe two

simplistic answers

or solutions but never nevertheless they

are the only solutions educate yourself

understand what's going on around you

you are not living at the time of peace

you are in a state of war and you have

precious

little time to save yourself um

you don't have much time especially if

you are talking about young generation

there's not much time left for

convulsions

to the beautiful disco music

very soon it will go just just overnight

if we are talking about capitalists or

or or

wealthy businessmen they i think they

are selling the rope on which they will

hang very soon

if they don't stop it they cannot curb

their

unsaturated desire for profit and if

they keep on trading with the monster of

the soviet communism

they are going to hang very soon and it

they will pray to be killed

but unfortunately they will be sent to

alaska probably to manage

industry of slaves it's

it's simplistic i know it sounds

unpleasant i know americans don't like

to listen to things which are

unpleasant but i have defected not to

tell you the stories

about such idiocies as microfilm james

bond type

espionage this is garbage

you don't need any espionage anymore i

have come to talk about

survival it's a question of survival of

this system

you may ask me what is it for me

survival obviously because unlike

i as i said i am now in your boat

if we sing together we will sing

beautifully together

there is no other place on this planet

to defect

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