Defiance & Unity in the Age of U.S. Hyper-Imperialism | Vijay Prashad

Venezuela's a president was kidnapped

last week in a US military operation

that left at least 80 people dead,

including 32 Cubans assigned to protect

President Nicolas Maduro. Just days

earlier, Israel's prime minister,

international fugitive Benjamin

Netanyahu, who is on the run from the

ICC for war crimes, departed safely

Washington DC. I am joined by the

acclaimed author and historian VJ

Prashad. BJ has written more than 40

books including Washington Bullets and

the darker nation, a people's history of

the third world. He is the executive

director of Trontinental Institute for

Social Research, chief correspondent for

the Globe Chhatter and chief editor of

Left World Books in New Delhi. VJ, thank

you very much for joining me today. It's

good to see you again.

>> It's a pleasure to be with you. Thanks a

lot. You know, you have one of the

brightest shows on the internet, so it's

great to be with you. Oh, thank you very

much. Um, VJ, some people would wonder

this is Palestine deep dive. Why are we

talking about Venezuela? But as you

said, in the age of hyper imperialism,

it is all linked. It is all related to

each other. I have seen that you have

written extensively about Latin America,

about Venezuela, and you said in one of

your articles that Venezuela has been

under the US attack long before last

week. So can you just start by telling

us how long has Venezuela been under

attack by the by the United States and

actually why is it only about oil or

something else?

Yeah, it's a very important question,

but you know, you started at the correct

place, which was that while the United

States sent in a enormous force and and

I want to get to the military aspect of

this in a little bit, but when the

United States sent this enormous force

into Venezuela to snatch to kidnap

Nicholas Maduro against customary law,

you know, firstly they violated the UN

um charter Article 2 does not permit a

country without a a security council

resolution to attack another country.

Venezuela is a sovereign country. It's a

violation of the UN charter. But also,

it's a violation of customary law. Um in

other words, there is a head of state

immunity. A head of state cannot be

charged um you know in another country.

There's only one exception to the head

of state immunity and that exception is

if there is an international criminal

court warrant. In the treaty of Rome, it

very explicitly talks about the

exception when there's an ICC warrant.

In other words, there is no ICC warrant

for the arrest of Nicholas Maduro, even

less of Celia Flores, his wife, and also

a deputy in the National Assembly.

There's no ICC warrant. I just want to

make this clear in case people are

deluded.

>> Yes, there is in fact an international

criminal court warrant for Benjamin

Netanyahu, for Yuav Galant, etc. Mr.

Netanyahu

had free access over European airspace

when he flew out of Tel Aviv, flew into

Washington DC, went to Florida, met with

Donald Trump, President of the United

States. It is most likely in that

meeting there was a discussion about

Venezuela. It's unlikely that it

wouldn't have come up because just then

um the United States launched this

operation against Nicholas Maduro. So

look at this. The United States actually

violated international law twice. It

violated international law by not

arresting a fugitive from the

international criminal court. That's

Benjamin Netanyahu, an actual fugitive

from the court. There is a warrant for

his arrest. So that was one violation of

international law. And then they

violated a second um international law

or at least customary law by going in

and snatching kidnapping Nicholas Maduro

bringing him to the United States.

That's actually one interesting parallel

with the situation in Palestine. The

second interesting parallel is a little

bit longer to explain, but it has a lot

to do with how the United States and

Israel are so keen to weaken in fact to

to kneecap Iran. um you know the I've

I've thought from the very beginning

that the reason why the United States

has given Israel license to conduct the

genocide in Gaza, it's not just about

the Palestinian struggle which the

Israelis have really kept under check by

destroying and I and I use the word it

may be offensive but I use the word by

destroying Palestinian politics. Um, the

Israelis have already been doing that.

They didn't need the genocide. But the

genocide provided Israel and the United

States with the opportunity to deeply

weaken Iran. How? They weakened Hamas.

Then they gave license to the Israelis

to attack Lebanon. They killed Sed

Hassan Nasallah. United States had

already assassinated Kasim Sulmani in

Baghdad. But now the United States,

Israel, and other allies took out the

government in Syria. Effectively, in all

of this, they weakened Iran's position

across um West Asia and have made Iran

extremely vulnerable to an to an attack

and overthrow of the government in Iran,

which is both Tel Aviv and Washington's

game. At the same time as that's

happening in West Asia, in South

America, it is very clear that Venezuela

from the left this time, not through

Islamism, which was Iran's principal way

of operating, but from the left,

Venezuela since 1998

has built the foundation for a a renewed

left across Latin America. It gave a

lifeline to the Cuban Revolution. It

became a place where revolutionaries and

people of the left could meet from

across Latin America funded by some of

the oil profits. You know, Venezuela

became a core place in the same way as

Iran became a place for debate,

discussion and so on. And in that sense,

the US attempt to decapitate Venezuela

is very much a parallel with the US

attempt to decapitate Iran. different

politics they may have but they play a

similar role visav hyperimperialism

which is that they are defiant and they

are contagious. They spread their

message far and wide, including amongst

the Palestinians. Because what Iran has

done for the Palestinian cause, despite

people's misgivings about Iran, what

Iran has done is provided a lot of

courage to people because it's a major

state in the region that actually

provided the means for resistance

against the Israeli occupation. So, so

in that sense, Ahmed, there's no no

reason why Palestine deep dive should

not be deep diving into Venezuela

because in fact, there is a nudge that

this has a lot to do with Iran as well.

And and as well, Nicholas Maduro was one

of the major state um leaders who was

completely pro Palestinian. I mean, when

I went to meet him, um, I gave him one

of those Palestinian uh, scarves and he

put it on immediately. He's was deeply

committed to the Palestinian cause. So

is Gustavo Petro across the the border

in Colombia. United States targeting the

pro Palestinian leaders in South

America. Just see Mexico next.

back in in December 2024,

we hosted you in our studio in London

for a podcast talking about uh your

reports in uh on on hy imperialism. Um

and this video actually was one of our

best uh podcast. It um accum accumulated

more than half a million views on

YouTube and it clips on social media

went viral. So can you remind us of what

do you mean? What did you mean by hyper

uh imperialism and how much do the

actions we are witnessing now by the US

today fill in uh in line with this

perspective?

>> Well, you know, in fact, I don't like to

feel ever that I'm right about anything

or that our institute is right about

anything because that, you know, makes

us feel um somehow that we are we are

you know testing or feeling in the air.

I feel always better when we are

slightly wrong because our our our

analyses sometimes are quite negative

about the world. In this case, we were

spot on. It's two concepts really. One

is hyperimperialism and the other one is

the new mood in the global south. We we

were spot on. Um the argument is pretty

simple. The United States over the

course of the past almost 20 years has

struggled to grow, has struggled to

industrialize, has struggled to

revitalize its economy. And as the

United States economically um just in

terms of industrial production and and

manufacturing new kinds of science and

technology in those areas as the United

States has deteriorated and as Asia has

begun to rise, this has created a lot of

uh both problems and worry within the

US. And then the best example of of that

absolute consciousness is in fact Donald

Trump with the slogan make America great

again. I mean make America great again

is a validation of the hyperimperialism

analysis because he is recognizing that

the United States Mr. Trump is

completely recognizing that the United

States is having a serious almost

irreversible economic decline. There are

two resources of power that the United

States has which they are willing to use

to the maximum effect to ensure their

dominion over the world. And it's the

use of those two instruments that we

consider hyperimperialism.

One of them is of course military force.

Um, you know, the United States and

well, basically its proxy Israel have

incredible military power. You know,

they don't spend over $1 trillion a

year. United States government, they

don't spend that kind of money to build,

you know, toys that don't work. Their

toys work. When they attacked Venezuela,

it was considerably qualitatively

greater than shock and awe against Iraq

in 2003. In the 23 years, they've really

upped their game. You know, they have

the capacity now using their EA 18

Growler aircraft. They have their

capacity to fly over a country, darken

the country, take out the power grid,

take out the communications,

jam all the radar, destroy all the air

defenses. You know, this is technology

the Israelis didn't need to use in Gaza

because the Palestinians do not have air

defense systems. They do not have radar.

They don't have sovereignty over their

country. So, the Israelis didn't have to

show this. But the United States showed

it to the world that this is what we

have. We can send 150 aircraft over your

sky. You can't do it. You can't shoot

down one of the You can't kill one

person. Our Delta Force lands, they wear

titanium suits. They come like Robocop.

They grab you. That's scary. They are

militarily at a different level. We

cannot defeat them militarily, but they

cannot win politically. That's a huge

problem for the United States. It can

destroy anywhere. Look at Gaza. The

Israelis flattened Gaza, right? But when

they entered, when the troops entered in

tanks, they suddenly took fire because

the resistance in Palestine was waiting

for them to come in. If you shoot a

drone down, it doesn't matter. It's just

money. They'll produce more. United

States, they can bomb um Venezuela, but

they won't land troops there because the

troops then will face what the Israelis

faced in Gaza. So, we know that

hyperimperialist force is destructive.

They can threaten Iran with flattening

Thran. They can threaten a country

saying we will flatten your capital.

That is very, very scary for any

government. Okay? And the message has

now been heard loud and clear. By the

way, I'm sorry to say this. The only

antidote to being flattened is having a

nuclear weapon. Talk to the North

Koreans about that. You know, they're

going to turn and say, "Look at what

they did to Libya. You know, the

Iranians have not learned the lesson.

The Venezuelans haven't learned the

lesson." And so on. Okay, that's the

military side. But the second resource

of power that the United States has

actually is interesting for you and I,

and that's information. Power over

information. I mean they have a capacity

to drive a narrative so effectively.

Look at BBC. The report was leaked that

they forbid the use of the word

kidnapping to talk about what happened

to to to Nicholas Maduro. You had to say

he was arrested. If you work for BBC,

you see BBC news is going to be used

across Africa, across Asia, many parts

of the world. reporters read the BBC

script and they rewrite it for their own

press. Okay, they don't have access.

They they don't have reporters in

Venezuela. Their power over information

is considerable and they can use that

information power, their power over

undersea cables, satellites, Elon Musk,

more satellites than the government of

China. They use that power to crush the

narrative. I mean, you're doing a great

job, Palestine Deep Dive, but you're

against the odds. You're fighting

against one BB, one Piers Morgan or

whatever, one BBC show and they will get

tens of millions if not more views. You

know, we are saying, well, you know,

half a million that was great. That is

great, but we have a long way to go in

the battle of ideas. So hyperimperialism

is the idea that the United States and

its allies have a grip on the world.

There is really no multipolarity. There

is the emergence of a new mood in the

global south. That new mood is not

powerful militarily but it exists.

People no longer trust and believe what

the United States is saying. They are

challenging the information power. So

even Anar Ibrahim, prime minister of

Malaysia turns around after Nicholas

Maduro is kidnapped and said this is not

on this is the wrong thing. Siril

Ramaposa South Africa this is not there

is a new mood but my god they can't

protect themselves against the

hyperimpialist attack.

>> You know last year when we spoke um you

said that what Israel and what the US

hate the most about Gaza is their

defiance. So is it is it fair now to say

that both Gaza and Venezuela are being

punished for defying the empire? And if

so, should other uh defiant actors be

concerned?

>> Well, in fact, I would say the opposite.

I would say that defiant actors now need

to start talking to each other. Um

because you see there's two things you

can do. Let's say you are the Cuban

revolution. United States has just told

you surrender or we're going to flatten

Havana. The response that came from

Miguel Miguel Diaz Canal, president of

Cuba was no, we are not surrendering. We

continued to defy you. What can you do

about it? Yeah, he's just But people now

need to stand alongside Cuba.

>> I see that the Mexican government for

instance very bravely has said we will

provide Cuba with assistance and so on.

Um I saw that the Venezuelan government

said that we are not going to break our

alliance with Cuba. But I would like to

see more countries come out there and

say we stand shouldertosh shoulder

because you see what the US will do is

they'll pick out they'll pick off one

country at a time. They go after

Venezuela, they go after Cuba, they go

after uh you know Iran, they go after

one country after the other. If we don't

stand together, we hang separately. I

mean it's the old adage and I I want to

say this again. One of the great

disappointing regions is the Arab world.

I mean, even Anar Ibrahim of of of

Malaysia after he was bullied by Trump

at the ASEAN meeting last year and had

to give Trump a quote unquote deal

because Trump was squeezing Malaysia

with tariffs. Anmir Ibrahim came out and

said, "This is outrageous." You know,

where are the Egyptians? They have gone

completely silent. The only Arab country

that has been standing up in recent

times is Algeria. Algeria in December

held a conference on colonialism and

said, "We need to talk about reparations

again." Okay, I'm happy that Algeria

said these things and Algeria does a

great job at the United Nations

defending the Palestinians and so on,

but where is the Arab nation? I mean

that just it it's absolute I read a

wrote a book now 10 years ago called the

death of the nation um which is about uh

you know the so-called Arab Spring and I

stand by that phrase the death of the

nation where is it you know where where

are the Egyptian people where's the

Egyptian military for God's sake you

know they are too busy um right now uh

plundering Sudan or whatever it is they

have to think about their dignity boss,

you know, um it's not enough to to go

back and say we had a great run, you

know, Gamal Abdul Nasser. It's

interesting. I see occasionally reels on

social media of Mr. Nasser and you know

Nasser standing there. Forget it. That's

nostalgia. Where is the Nasser of today?

It's like I tell my friends in

Venezuela, I don't want to see more

reels of Chavez. I want you to become

Chavez. you know, I want the millions of

Latin Americans to become chaveis. So,

you know, yes, you're right. Countries

need to be concerned because they can be

flattened. But they also need to stand

up. If you don't stand up now, we might

not see some of these processes anymore.

We might lose them for a generation or

more. Many countries, I mean, in the

Middle East especially, are very afraid

of Israel and very afraid of the US.

They have seen that Israel during the

past two years they have bombed seven

countries in the Middle East. They have

destroyed Gaza and they fear for their

people. They would say that they fe they

fear for their people. They know that

their military cannot stand up against

Israel. They cannot confront Israel.

There's a huge gap between both

militaries. So what do you say to them?

>> No, I agree with them. But you know

there are political things that you can

do. Um a couple of things. One is the

Arab League has gone to sleep. Okay. The

League of Arab States has completely

gone to sleep. It is interesting that

the Organization of Islamic Countries,

the OIC is to the left now of the Arab

League. I mean, I would never in my life

have imagined the OIC to go to the left

of the Arab League. Someday you'll have

to explain to me how this works because

the Organization of Islamic Countries

was the Conservative body. You know that

is where the Gulf Arab countries

dominated and in a sense the Arab League

was dominated by the Republican block

you know the Nasserites and so on in

general I'm talking now generally but

now it's different the Arab League has

gone to sleep so one is politically

revive the institution you know people

need to be there having a discussion

what is the Arab world where where is

Palestinian politics I mean Which

country in the Arab world is calling for

the release of Marwan Barguti and Ahmed

Al Sadat and so on? I was surprised to

see that of all people Bono of all

people Bono from YouTube who is a

complete sellout. Bono has just called

for the release of Marwan Barguti. You

know if anybody should be calling for

his release it should be the Egyptian

government. It should be the Jordanians.

They should say, you know, that after so

many years released this man, he's been

tortured in prison. Plus, Palestine

needs a politics. They're not even

saying that. And secondly,

several of these countries, particularly

Jordan, Jordan, which is effectively um

almost a majority Palestinian state,

these countries should be threatening to

tear up the agreements with Israel. You

know, they should threaten at least the

water sharing agreement. they should

threaten uh to cut the their border

agreement. You know, something that's

>> some Arab countries some Arab countries

are actually strengthening their their

ties with Israel and giving them the not

only vegetables and and fruit and food,

but also diplomatic cover and media and

media coverage. I'm I'm just shocked

that other countries are still

normalizing with Israel. Now we see

Somalia land. What what is wrong with

Somalian land? Like the only country

that recognizes this land is Israel.

Why? I I I I don't understand. But you

have touched on uh you have touched on

um the left in Latin America and I'm I

really want to ask you about the left in

Latin America. It is very different from

the left anywhere in the world. Why has

the left in Latin America uh has always

supported Palestine? What is the link

there?

Yeah, I mean there's there are actually

not some structural reason, okay? It's

it's in fact um it has to do with the

nature of the politics because the first

thing that's important for people to

understand is the Palestinian diaspora

and Lebanese diaspora which is in Latin

America is not necessarily leftleaning.

it. In fact, some of the most right-wing

politicians of the current period are

either Palestinian or Lebanese people

like Na Boule of El Salvador, Daniel

Naboa. I mean, these people come from

backgrounds of of of of from the region,

from the Levant, the broad Levant, but

they are extraordinarily right-wing. And

in many of their cases, they are

politically pro-Israel. I I don't mean

they are pro-Israel like in all

respects, but they are politically

pro-Israel. Now, I'm talking to you from

Santiago in Chile, half a million

Palestinians, the largest Palestinian

population outside the Middle East. But

these are Palestinians who came here

during the Ottoman Empire. So, they are

politically very mixed. There's on the

one side Daniel Hardway, the former

mayor of Recalleta, absolutely pro

Palestinian, used to live in Damascus,

worked for the general uh union of

Palestinian students and so on. But then

there's the other side. Lots of them are

people who support the far right

Palestinians, but they all united for

Palestine despite their political

differences. So in different countries

the Palestinian situation is different

because there there is a a considerable

presence not a negligible presence.

Okay. So that's number one

>> but very important when the left revived

in the 1990s

um you know people like Ugo Chavez uh

were very serious about their political

commitment to liberation to

anticolonialism and so on and Mr. Chavez

was a fervent believer in the

emancipation of the Palestinians from

occupation. He personally was a great

supporter of the fight against um

occupation against apathide against the

wall. You know when all those things

were happening in the 2000s the second

inifada Mr. Chavez was always on the

correct side and because of his decisive

influence as a person on the Latin

American left, the Latin American left

uh adopted the Palestinian struggle. I

mean there were there were fumes of the

earlier Fedin influence on the Gera

struggle in the 1960s, you know, Chewara

coming to Gaza and so on. That fedí

influence with the Gera struggles of

Latin America goes back to the 60s, but

that had died out by the 1990s. You

know, it was nostalgia. It was the fume

in the air, a little bit of of of scent

of it in the air, but nothing really.

The return really is Chavez. I mean,

Chavez puts the Palestine issue on the

table. You know, it's it's it's

irreducible.

until today when you go to any left

space in Latin America there are certain

flags and emblems that are there all

over the place and one of them is of

course um you know free Palestine or you

know liberation for Palestine it's it's

there everywhere from the '9s onward

I've seen it everywhere people wear

kafias and so on it's not just about

style they are fundamentally committed

to anti-colonialism fundamentally which

is Why the Saravi cause is equally

adopted in Latin America. In Cuba for

instance, the Sarawi issue is equivalent

to the Palestinian issue. And there's so

many Palestinian doctors who train in

Cuba as a consequence of this kind of

unbelievable love for the Palestinian

people. Love not because the

Palestinians are better than other

people, okay? So don't let it go to your

head, but because of the Palestinian

struggle for emancipation. because it's

been such a long struggle,

>> you know. U I I want to ask you about

something different. Um um a few weeks

ago, we have seen some of Trump's

advisers talking about the Western

Hemisphere and some might have assumed

that Trump's renewal focus on the

Western Hemisphere might signal um a

partial US disengagement from the Middle

East. But with the rhetoric that we're

now seeing threatening military

intervention in Iran heating up, would

this reading be shortsighted?

I mean, look, the United States has 9

The United States has 900 military bases

around the world. It has the carrier

capacity to be in at least two wars at

the same time. It has aircraft carriers,

number of aircraft carriers that are

operational. Um, they don't need to

choose. Yes, it's true in the um in the

national security strategy, Mr. Trump

emphasizes that the that the Western

Hemisphere is quote unquote is the

United States. The United States owns

the Western Hemisphere um through the

Monroe Doctrine and now the Trump

correlary to the Monro Doctrine. That's

true. That's what it says. That doesn't

mean that the focus will be exclusively

on the Western Hemisphere. It just means

that they are going to take the Western

Hemisphere.

This is the problem with having a boxing

injury. When I was young, I was a boxer

and my nose broke. And so, I'm

constantly,

it's not cocaine. I'm not involved in

the in the cocaine rings of Latin

America. It's just that I have a

terrible injury from boxing and it'll

never heal. Um anyway, uh so

>> the United States is saying that the

Western MSP is theirs, but that doesn't

mean if the opportunity is provided, if

suddenly there are contradictions in

Iran that the United States can exploit.

It's not that they will sit, you know,

and watch from afar. They will take,

they will influence as much as possible.

Look, there's a problem in Iran. I mean

the Iranian government is having a

serious economic problem. You know you

can't have the realto dollar ratio go to

such an extent that the whole bazar is

upset inflation is very high. You can't

just you know allow that to go and and

in a way I would say the government

waited too long to respond to the

workers particularly in south ps and so

on. You know there are some serious

problems in the economy in Iran. United

States and Israel take advantage of it

fully. It's not like they are going to

allow that to to go by and and look at

the ally that they have. Very important

for people to see that. Who is the ally?

It's the son of the sha of Iran who is

completely a Zionist. So you know people

who say yeah yeah you know freedom for

the Iranians.

Okay you can say whatever you want. You

don't have to pay the price. And all

those Iranians who are protesting in Los

Angeles, they are never going back to

Iran. Okay? They have built in Los

Angeles. They are just protesting for

the hell of it. Okay? Same in London.

You think the Iranians in London are

going back to Iran? Not a chance. They

would like to go for holidays and own

property and, you know, increase the

neoliberal contradictions in Iran, not

decrease them. This is not a support

from a socialist perspective. It's a

support from let's get our property back

perspective. Yeah. So in that sense they

are taking advantage of internal

problems in Iran of course. But if I was

you know if I'm thinking about this from

a Palestinian perspective you got bad

choices. Okay. It's a little bit like

the issue in Syria you know it's just

you got to make a political choice in

life. You know the world isn't all

roses. You know people say oh you know

you know all people are bad. Well,

that's a very comfortable position, but

you know, if you are a Palestinian, a

politically active Palestinian, you have

to make a political choice. I'm afraid

you can't say, you know, plague on all

their houses. Then the biggest plague is

already on the Palestinians. They cannot

afford to make a bad political choice.

Remember when Yaser Arafat took the

choice in the first Gulf War saying, "I

stand with with Saddam Hussein." That

was a calculated political choice. May

not have been the best choice. I think

Arafat was miscalculating terribly by

the 1990s. It was a bad choice. But he

knew he had to make a choice and he

didn't want to choose like Hafis alasad

did. He didn't want to choose with the

United States. Hafis al-Assad chose the

United States and had Syrian planes bomb

Iraq. Yaser Arafat did not want to make

that choice. On that basis, I actually

respect Arafat that he thought through

from that perspective. I don't want to

stand with the United States against an

Arab country. That's how he saw it. But

unfortunately, that was a bad strategic

calculation from the standpoint of the

Palestinians, weakened the Palestinians

going into Oslo.

>> Well, that's a whole other story.

Talking about the choices and people

having to make a choices um do you think

Donald Trump um has bad has made a very

bad calculation and and and and

bad choices when he started to threaten

uh a territory that belongs to Denmark

Greenland.

What what is he calculating? What is he

thinking of?

>> So this is interesting. This has to do

with the Arctic Passage as much as

anything. So, right now the United

States has access to the Arctic Passage,

those waters because it has an agreement

with Canada

>> and it says to Canada, it has to inform

Canada every time a US ship wants to

enter the Arctic. The Canadians have

released a new report in December of

2025, a a government report called

Sovereignty in the Arctic, where the

Canadians have said that now the United

States no longer has to merely inform

them that a ship is going through the

Arctic. They have to take advanced

permission. This is a huge um you know

exercise of sovereignty by the the

Canadians. But if the US has Greenland,

they have access to the Arctic Passage

because really it's it's Denmark and

Canada that control the openings. Um, so

this is not an illogical move by the US.

You know, Trump is not an idiot. He

knows what he's doing. The other issue

is that he is now entering a serious

contradiction that the the Scandinavian

countries have because the Scandinavian

countries have all these colonies where

there are effectively indigenous people

and in Greenland not a very large part

of it but a large part of it is a US

military base already. Used to be the

thul base now it's the air space. It's a

space base. It's up there in northern

Greenland. If you are a Greenlander

independence candidate and by the way

all the prime ministers are basically

independence people. Yeah. Greenland has

a enormous independence movement. If you

are an independence candidate you say

it's actually better for Greenland to

buy goods and services from the United

States than Denmark. United States is is

closer goods will be cheaper than

getting it from Denmark. So they would

like to be independent and trade openly

with Canada and the US. So the the

United States has entered this dispute.

Very clever. It's also a little weapon

against the European countries and na

and in NATO. You know, Trump is always

needling people to get a good deal. He

may not get Greenland, but he's going to

get something out of this. He may get,

you know, eternal US passage into the

Arctic. The Canadians and and Denmark

might end up making a deal. So, I don't

see this as as totally dumb. I see Trump

playing all the angles here. You know,

somebody is giving him really good

advice because I didn't anticipate that

the Canadians would say, "Well, we want

sovereignty over our our northern

passage." That the publication of that

report surprised me. Obviously, the

United States knew this was coming. They

have intelligence about Canada much

better than you and I. They follow it

closely. uh probably the Canadians also

informed them because you know they are

Canadians they're polite um probably so

in that sense he is angling for

sovereignty over the entire western

hemisphere including Greenland and

that's interesting you know I would say

Aruba Bonet Kurasau Dutch colonies of

the Netherlands in in the Caribbean

Turks and Caos Cayman Islands etc

colonies of the British government.

>> Don't you think that he's losing the

West? Like by the way, he's losing

Europe with his choice.

>> What is what is Europe going to give the

United States to be honest? I mean, you

know, he he knows he's playing a long

game. He thinks that within 10 years, um

Europe politics is going to change.

Nigel Faraj will come to the UK. Um you

know, Mar Le Pen is going to win in

France, etc., et, etc. So, he won't have

to deal with annoying people like

Emanuel Macron and Kier Stmer, you know,

two-faced individuals. Kmer is a

two-faced politician. He would prefer to

deal with somebody straightforward like

Nigel Faraj, they make some wretched

deal, you know, the Faraj will say,

"Yeah, yeah, you can take you can take

the Caymans, but we keep Turks and Kos,

you know, we need non-doms,

you know, or something." Um, who knows

what deals they would make. You know,

Mr. Trump will say, "Why does France

have a colony in in Guyana? It should

go, you know. I mean, what happens next?

If if the United States starts to

support Gy French Gy independence, what

will Macro do? Macro has had a hard time

in the Sahel region in Africa. Suddenly

the people of French Guyana say, "We

want the French to leave." What happens

next? You know, the United States comes

in and supports that. Then what? Who

needs these European leaders? He's not

abandoning Europe because he thinks

Europe is going to these guys are all

gone and Europe will go to the right and

then everything will be great for the

United States because they'll have

right-wing people in Europe. The whole

of Latin America is experiencing an

angry tide and eventually the right is

going to come in in Eastern Africa much

more than it is now. Um thanks to

American Pentecostal ministers and so

on. The Arab world as it is, we've

always had a hard time categorizing it

left and right, but for all effective

purposes, you have right-wing

governments and so Trump is quite

pleased. What is there to make a mistake

about? You're describing a very gloomy

future, VJ. What needs to be done to

confront all of this?

>> Well, it's it's actually a gloomy

present because all of this is is 5

minutes from now. I mean, you know, in

in in a place like let's say the United

Kingdom, um you know, unities of people

need to grow much more. I mean we need

to see some clarity from the union

movements that these things you know the

genocide against the Palestinians is not

a faraway issue. This is related to

their own you know if they have an

understanding of something like

hyperimperialism they will see that what

is happening to them the cuts the

austerity the this that is related to

the genocide. you know the increase of

the military budget in the UK is going

to destroy social life within the UK.

You got to stop that. The right is not

going to stop that. You know I would

like to see Jeanluke Mashon uh lead a

renaissance of the left much greater

than already. Um you know this is the

European story in Latin America.

People's movements continue to fight but

they have been momentarily demoralized

by the attack on Venezuela. If if the

Cuban revolution is touched, they will

be demoralized even more. This needs to

be prevented. We can't be demoralized.

Ahmed, we just cannot. I tell people all

the time, do you think Ahmed al- Sadat

sitting in his jail cell is demoralized?

Do you know who I saw on the streets of

of Lebanon protesting against the

kidnapping of of Nicholas Maduro? Do you

know who was out there protesting in

Lebanon? Can you guess? I don't know

who.

>> George Abdullah. George Abdullah

communist had been in jail in France

illegally held by a French jail for

decades. He was just released last year.

Yeah. He's under basic threat of being

assassinated by the Israelis. George

Abdullah comes on the street to

demonstrate against the kidnapping of

Nicholas Maduro. I look at that Ahmed

and I think if George Abdullah is not

demoralized how dare I be demoralized I

mean that's ridiculous you know Marwan

Barguti was almost in fact I think he

was spit upon by that racist Zionist

minister yeah don't even want to say his

name racist Zionist minister spat on

Marwan Barguti you know the day Marwan

Barguti if he is ever released from

prison he's going to walk out like this.

This is the symbol. He's going to walk

out like this and he's going to say we

will prevail. You have lost more family

members in the genocide than most people

can imagine. And you are standing, you

are doing this podcast. You are not

demoralized.

How dare the rest of us feel demoralized

when you are standing like a rock. You

know, I'm inspired by you. You are

standing like a rock. No, it's a it's a

fact. It's not even a compliment. Yeah,

there are compliments and there are

facts. It's a fact that this is how you

are. This is how they would be. Marwan

Barbudi not given up. Yeah. George

Abdullah standing there demonstrating.

Why isn't he just lying at home, you

know, reading a novel or No, he is a

believer. He believes that the world has

to be made a better place. And man, that

makes me so happy.

Uh that's a very nice note to end with.

Uh VJ, thank you very very much for

joining me today and I hope we can do

another podcast in our studio in London

soon when you are in the UK. If you come

to the UK

>> if they let me in. Yes.

>> Thank you very much. It's a pleasure.