Tony Robbins Takes AI's Hardest Questions: Job Loss, Purpose, and The Hard Times Ahead | 222

People ask me all the time, how do you

provide certainty for people when the

external world no longer offers

certainty? There is no external

certainty. So when those jobs are

disrupted, what will people hang on to?

The answer is

>> one of the most famous people on the

planet, Tony Robbins, the great Tony

Robbins is here, my man.

>> There's nothing that people want that

they can't make happen if they really

want it heart and soul and they're want

to do something about it.

>> This kind of change hitting society

isn't just a threat about unemployment.

It's it's a threat about a nervous

system shock.

>> AI is the call. New technology is the

call for us to become more. Again, to

move from survival to spirit, to move

from settling to something greater.

>> AI is is going to create this rate of

change that is just beyond belief and it

doesn't correlate with happiness

necessarily. It needs to be turned into

happiness.

>> Tony, you've been coaching millions of

people over decades, right? After kind

of looking back over that time, are you

more optimistic about the world or less?

>> Here's what I think about optimism. I

think

>> now that's a moonshot, ladies and

gentlemen.

>> Hey everybody, welcome to Moonshots. I'm

here today with a dear friend, the

world's number one life and business

coach, Tony Robbins. He's coached more

than 100 million people across 195

countries. Uh beyond his coaching, he's

the owner of in more than 114 companies

with $12 billion in business. Uh he is

an investor in private equity across 80

private equity companies with 11 billion

AUM. He's advised presidents, Fortune

500 CEOs, global leaders on leadership

and human potential. Personally, Tony is

one of my best friends. We've

co-authored a number one New York Times

selling book. We've co-founded two

companies, Fountain Life and Life Force.

And in my opinion, he is one of the

greatest humanitarians on the planet

alive today. Tony, welcome, pal.

>> Thanks, buddy. It's great to be with

you.

>> Yeah. Uh, for sure. You know, I remember

a decade ago, uh, we started a

conversation and we started too early,

but a conversation about what we saw as

the age of coming technological

socialism.

>> Yes. where technology, not the

government, but technology would start

to take care of individuals and the

implications that that might have on our

psychology, on our sense of safety, on

how we motivate ourselves. And as you

know, I did a podcast recently with uh

with Elon and and during that

conversation, uh he said a few things

that I wanted my the first person I

wanted to speak to about this was you.

Um, you know, he said literally that he

expects in the next 3 to 5 years that AI

and robotics would fundamentally

displace all human labor. And I think

the time frame that folks have been

talking about in the media, in

government, across the board has been

more of a 20-year adaptation cycle of

how long that would take. And and humans

are amazingly adaptable. But I don't

think at that speed. I think, you know,

this kind of change hitting society

isn't just a threat about unemployment.

It's it's a threat about a nervous

system shock.

>> Yeah.

>> So, let's let's start there. How do you

you know, how do you respond to that?

What are your concerns?

>> Well, when the environment changes

faster than our ability to adapt, people

panic. When people panic um they have a

variety of emotional reactions including

anger and rage and sometimes violence

and if you look at the history of change

you can go back all the way to ludites

you know if you remember studying your

history in the 1800s in England and they

created these machines that displaced

about 70% of the jobs and what did

people do they they rioted you know you

had thousands of people you had them

attacking with hammers to destroy these

machines you had them blowing up

facilities you know factories you had

factory people owners being shot and

being threatened to be killed. You had

factory owners putting people out there

shooting people. Uh the government in

England passed a law in the first year

of this kind of 5-year cycle basically

saying that if you destroyed a machine,

it was capital punishment. They hung 24

people publicly to try to stop this.

They put out 12,000 people to fight

them. This is during the same Napoleon

wars.

>> Um so it there's no guarantee of this

being a smooth transition. Now, I'm not

a reactionary person and when you hear

three to five years, it gets your

attention. And you know, Elon's one of

the smartest people alive and people can

argue about the timeline, but Ray

Kurszswwell, a mutual friend of both of

ours, you know, he's been talking about,

you know, 2029 for probably 20 years,

and he's been the most accurate

forecaster I know. Even if you go to,

you know, Hinton, who's, you know, the

founder of AI himself, he has a longer

version. He goes 2030, 2040. So, I'd say

3 to 10 years is my guess. But you know

I don't think all business will be gone

or changed at that time period. But the

question really is you know how do you

provide certainty for people right?

People ask me all the time how do you

provide certainty for people when the

external world no longer offers

certainty

>> and I would argue that you don't have to

deal with it at all because it's already

true.

>> What I mean is there is no external

certainty. You know external certainty

is a total illusion. You have rented

certainty because you have a certain

business or you have a certain category

of a certain income. you have certain

relationships but you know a covid for

example instantly changed all of that

overnight for people you walk across the

street and get hit by a car and you know

you can't walk for 6 months or forever

things like this are always been a part

of our lives so I think it's really

dispelling the illusion of certainty and

finding people and the ability to get

that internal certainty look

neuroscience is teaching us that same as

AI our brains are predictive machines

it's constantly trying to predict what's

going to happen and close the gap

between what it predicts and what

reality is. And when it's doesn't match

up, that's when that craziness, that

anger, that fear shows up. So, it's

going to show up on a large scale. And

our job, I think, as leaders is to

anticipate that, to look at history,

because it's not just the Ludites who

can say 15 years later that happened

with a Thrashers, another machine that

was used, you know, to get rid of wheat.

And they had the same reaction. 15 years

later, in the 1930s, 30, 31, 32,

communism came and people had to be put

down. Governments in the past have

overreacted to this to try to stop it.

It's been a very difficult stage. So, if

we're going to make the transition, I

think we have to anticipate what's

coming. And I remember I I talked to

President Obama about this 10 years ago

and I right at the end of his office and

I was saying, "What are you going to

do?" Cuz I I gave the example. I said,

"You know, you inherited an economy

where, you know, 8 million jobs

disappeared right in 2008 and the world

economy was smashed up." Well, I said,

"Look at this. these self-driving cars,

they're going to be around at least

sometime in the next 10 to 15 years. And

they're going to displace truck drivers

and they're going to displace, you know,

anybody that's driving an Uber. Who's

going to hire a truck driver that you

have can work eight hours a day maximum?

They cost a lot of money for their

health insurance. It's always going up.

They complain when you can have a, you

know, a truck that drives 24 hours a

day, probably cheaper insurance, doesn't

make the mistakes, don't have to pay the

healthcare, and you can depreciate the

asset. So I said, 'If you just take that

category alone, those truck drivers,

Uber drivers, taxi drivers, that's 8

million jobs. And I said, so what are

you guys doing, you know, at the

governmental level to anticipate this to

retool people? And I'll never he said,

HE GOES, TONY, IT'S not going to happen

that fast.

>> And I said, well, with all due respect,

Mr. President, if you if you look at

history, we could say 150 years ago, 80%

of us were farmers. Now it's 3% we feed

the world. No one thought of a new job

called being a web master or these days,

you know, you'd use something different

like AI master, whatever the case may

be. Those jobs weren't even thought of.

So, I know there'll be new jobs. But

that was a 150year shift. The speed of

this is the challenge. Yeah.

>> And you said, Tony, all the people we're

talking to, it's just not going to

happen that fast. And I'm thinking about

it just the other day because it's just

10 years ago. And you and I both know

between Whimo and obviously Elon, it's

happening in cities all across the

world. It's not the standard yet, but

will it be sometime soon? And the answer

is yes. So when those jobs are

disrupted, what will people hang on to?

The answer is we have to give them two

things. First, help them develop an

identity as a creator. Here's what I

mean by that. Most people that you talk

to in daily life are stressed. It is the

number. I'm so stressed. There's so much

I don't I don't know what to do. I'm so

stressed about so stressed about that.

So much about mental health these days.

Are you really going to tell me that

life is more stressful today than when

you know you had a fight for your food

with a tiger? I mean it's absurd or

during the middle ages where you know

you might catch something where you know

entire community went down but we think

it's more stressful because we're

managers today. We try to manage so

much. We were not made to manage our

circumstances. We're made to create.

When you're managing circumstances, you

don't feel any sense of agency. You

don't feel like you're in charge. And

most human stress comes from the fact

that you feel events are controlling you

versus you're controlling events. So

think about it. Something created us.

You can call it God. You can call it the

universe. You can call it whatever you

want to call it. But we were created by

something and we're given the ability to

create. When you become a creator of

life on your terms, it doesn't matter

what changes in the outside world. Now,

there's one other piece you might say

practically like what skills would

somebody need to be able to do well?

Because I've been thinking and I've got

just like you, I've got kids. I got five

kids and five grandkids now. I have a

you know 52 year old daughter and thanks

to co I have a four-year-old daughter.

It was good to me. But I think about my

grandkids and my younger kids and I say,

man, you know, 80%, 50%, 30%, you know,

depending which studies you read of

traditional jobs are going to disappear.

You know, Elon's saying all of them. But

no matter how you slice it, the world's

going to change radically. How do I arm

them?

>> Right? Not just with money or resources.

How to arm them to have self-esteem to

know they can play the game? And the

answer is develop an identity that says

I'm the kind of person that always finds

the way. I'm the person that can find

meaning anything and empowering meaning.

I know how to use my body to produce

certainty, not try to get it from the

outside world, which is an illusion. I

have an identity. I'm the person that

makes it happen. If you think about like

Lance Armstrong's identity of like I'm

the guy that always finds the way to

victory. Well, we told he had cancer in

his lungs, in his brain, and in his

testicles. Most people would say, "I'm

out." He's like, "I'm going to find the

answer." He did. Now, the same belief

system of identity made him use drugs to

compete. That kind of hurt his career

and his identity in some way. But

identity is what controls it. Then

there's the skill. And I'll finish with

this. There's three skills I teach every

one of my kids, anybody I'm in business

with, anybody relationship with to

continuously master. If you master these

three skills, it doesn't matter what

happens with AI. Doesn't matter. will

still be a part of what wins. Cuz in the

end, you're not going to be replaced by

AI. You're going to be replaced by

someone who wants to use AI. And here's

the bottom line. Pattern one, the skill

number one is pattern recognition.

You're a genius at this. You and I have

been friends for decades. I'm not

blowing smoke. You and I both are damn

good at recognizing patterns early on

and seeing what they mean. Now, when you

recognize a pattern, it eliminates fear.

People are fearful because something

looks like this has never happened

before. There's nothing like this.

There's always something like this. You

know, history is not the same, but it

rhymes. You know, the phrase we hear so

often. So, it's like once you recognize

the pattern in yourself emotionally or

physically or the pattern financially or

the pattern of cycles of of of markets,

you're no longer fearful. But the second

skill is pattern utilization. Now, think

about it. What changed humanity from

living in fear and running from one

place to another, you know, being hunter

gatherers trying to hopefully get our

food to staying in one place and being

able to build a family, a community, a

city, a nation. One pattern recognition

that we learn to use and that is the

seasons. Until we understood the

seasons, you could do the right thing at

the wrong time and yet nothing. Planting

in the winter, no matter hard hard work,

doesn't work. So once we learn that,

wow, we can plant here, we protect

during the hot summer, we reap and keep

some of it for the winter. That's how we

came to be able to be where we are.

Well, once you recognize financial

patterns, business patterns, patterns of

technology, you're not fearful. Once you

start to use those patterns, you become

powerful. You now start to be able to

invest better. You'll be able to build a

business. You'll be able to have a more

mature relationship and one that's more

passionate, more alive, and more loving.

But the third target that I all my kids

I want them to move towards and

constantly reinforcing is pattern

creation. So think of it this way and

I'll finish with this. If you're

learning to play music, the piano,

usually someone else before you has come

up with a pattern that's delightful or

enhancing, whatever you want to call it,

beautiful, you learn their pattern and

you learn a lot of their patterns and

you don't just recognize it, you use it.

You can produce the result. That's

amazing. But as time goes by, suddenly

there'll be a point where you've played

enough of other people's patterns that

you come through. And now you become a

creator of patterns. And if you do that

in business or in sports, you become the

goat of that industry. You become the

greatest of all time because you're

bringing something to table that's never

been there before. So the answer, long

answer, but I think it's needs context

is the need for certainty is in human

beings, but that need can be met many

different ways. And in order to have

them succeed, they need to have a

different identity. They have to

understand that this idea of certainty

just things being the same way has never

really been there if you look at it in

reality. But I can create internal

certainty. I can find the meaning. I can

develop the identity of the person that

finds the way. I can develop the

identity of being a creator. And if I

study these three skill sets, I'll

always be able to learn. And as I learn,

I'll be able to master anything life

brings me, including AI, technology,

robotics, nanotechnology,

etc. Hey everybody, you may not know

this, but I've done an incredible

research team. And every week myself, my

research team study the metat trends

that are impacting the world. Topics

like computation, sensors, networks, AI,

robotics, 3D printing, synthetic

biology. And these metatrend reports I

put out once a week enable you to see

the future 10 years ahead of anybody

else. If you'd like to get access to the

Metatrends newsletter every week, go to

dmandis.com/tatrens.

That's damandis.com/tatrends.

I appreciate this and I agree with you.

Of course, the challenge is how many

people have it within themselves to

actually, you know, go down that road.

One of the challenges is we're living in

a world where there have been a number

of social contracts that have become,

you know, sort of codified in all of our

lives. You know, you know, work hard in

school, go to good college, get a

degree, get a great job. And all of a

sudden that gets just disrupted and

people find themselves uh where their

identity for all time has been their

job. I mean first off the idea of work

is a rather recent invention. You know

we never used to work 10 20,000 years

ago. We survived. I love Sad Guru has a

great quote about this. I remember he

said uh technology is the means by which

we take a vacation from survival. I I

love that.

>> That's great. And and so the question

now is when when your self-worth has

been tied to your job

and all of a sudden either you know it's

taken away or it's it's minimized and

then we also have I think one of the

biggest concerns I have and and Elon

echoed this is we're going to have uh a

large population of individuals not

getting jobs. I mean, they're in the

process of the social contract of I've,

you know, worked hard. I got to a

college and we're seeing this at at MIT,

at Nor Eastern, at universities around

I, you know, with great degrees, I

cannot get a job. And retooling

themselves to go and become a creator

and I, you know, one of the things we've

talked on the Moonshots podcast a lot is

that the real future career, the real

future uh opportunity is being an

entrepreneur. entrepreneurship is the

future uh for everybody at some shape

and call it a creator, call it whatever

you like. So, how do people make that

make that shift when they're in the

midst of uh of hurting? Um, and we're

not we're not there yet. You know, uh,

another thing that Elon said that I want

to just say is, you know, we're going to

head towards universal high income, uh,

where, you know, robots and AI enable us

to have anything we want and at the same

time with social unrest. So, how do you

think about social unrest um coming? Is

it avoidable? Uh,

can we immunize ourselves? Do you think

government's going to take the actions

required? Yeah, those are those are

great questions and I'm I'm certainly

not the expert to answer them. I can

only give you my two cents and my

opinion, but you know, I've heard a lot

of people say this before, like, you

know, they say for 4,000 years our

identity has been tied to work. What

happens when we don't have to work

anymore? And it's just not true. For

4,000 years before the aggregarian

transformation of our society, as you

said, we're into survival. But really,

what we were tied to was a tribe. We're

tied to connection and contribution.

Those are two human needs that have

never gone away and are not going to go

away if there's no quote work. Now, I

don't know if I buy there'll be no work

for human beings personally. Um I could

be dead wrong, but I just I I don't buy

that necessary future. Certainly not in

the next three, five years that you're

describing. But I think you got to think

about economic utility wasn't it. You

had your sense of significance. Let's

talk about something for two seconds

because you're going to know this, but

share it with your audience. You know, I

work with people all over the earth. One

of the things that I uncovered about 20

years ago that just really changed my

work where I could help people in a

radically different way is I noticed you

I've worked in you knowund what 139

countries I've got clients in 193

countries but I've gone to those

countries and worked and every country

has its own values and rule systems

obviously generally for example if you

go to the east saving face is very very

important as you well know uh there's

cultures like the United States where

the in you know the individual is more

valued there's cultures where it's more

about the group. But the one thing I

noticed in every single culture was the

same problems occurred even though the

culture was different. And that made me

dig to see what drives people underneath

it all. What are what are the drives

that aren't just motivational? What are

the drives that are built into all human

beings? And I finally discovered what I

consider to be the six human needs that

drive everything. In other words,

whatever people do, they have a reason.

If somebody says they're going to commit

suicide, they've got a reason. If

someone's willing to run in a building

and save someone and they might lose

their life to do it, they got a reason.

If somebody just yells you, they got a

reason. They might not know what it is

consciously, but there's a million

reasons. There's six needs that drive

those reasons or those stories, right?

Someone's going to kill themselves.

Obviously, they have to have a belief

that dying is less painful than living

as an example. So, those six needs come

down to these real fast because they

think,

>> and let's actually let's take these one

at a time because AI impacts all of

them.

>> They do. It does. Now let's just look at

what they are. So the first basic human

need is certainty. The need to be able

to be comfortable to avoid pain. Now

this need for certainty is in every

human being. It's just the differences

in human beings in these six needs are

that some people value certainty number

one and some will value let's say

uncertainty another need much higher.

Where you value these six needs is why

we make different decisions.

>> And the second thing is how do you get

certainty? Some people get certainty by

lowering their expectations. Some people

get certainty by trusting in God and

saying, "There's a higher purpose. I'm

going to be guided." Some people get

certainty by saying, you know, I I've

been through hell before. I've always

find the answer. I'll find the answer

here. Some people get certainty by

working out and feeling that certainty

in their body. So, we all have different

rules, a different map about how to meet

that need. So, the two differences is

what do you value towards the top two?

That's what drives you. And what are

your rules about how to meet them? So,

having said that, you can get certainty

by eating a lot of food. You're all

stressed out. you eat a lot of food and

your stomach fills up and you start to

breathe better, right? Because you're

full. Or you smoke a cigarette, take a

breath in and blow it out nice and slow

and you feel better. You're killing

yourself, but you feel comfortable while

you're doing it, right? It's just

provides certainty. So you can find

certainty in positive ways, neutral

ways, or negative ways. But if you were

certain every moment of your life, you

know what's going to happen, when it's

going to happen, what someone's going to

do, what they're going to say, in the

beginning, that would feel great. But

after a while, you'd be bored out of

your mind. Which is why the universe,

God, whatever you want to call it, gave

us a second need, which is uncertainty.

We have a need for uncertainty. We have

a need for surprise. In fact, when I do

large audiences, I'll say to a stadium,

"How many love surprise?" And 15,000

people all raise their hand and I go,

"Bullshit." I said, "You like the

surprises you want." Right? The

surprises you don't want, you call

problems. But we need those. It triggers

a different response in us. We need that

a need for variety. Now, if there's too

much variety, people freak out. If

there's too much certainty, they're

bored out of their mind. So, is the goal

to be the lukewarm middle? No. The goal

is you can meet multiple through

multiple beliefs or actions or emotions,

you can meet multiple needs. If

someone's ever rented uh, you know, a

movie that they've already seen. I'll

ask people that. Most people say they

have. And I say, "Get a life." Right?

And I said, "But I've done it, too." Why

would you rent a MOVIE YOU'VE ALREADY

SEEN? Cuz you're certain it's good and

you're hoping it's been long enough

you've forgotten enough. still gives you

variety to watch it again, right? And so

you can meet multiple needs. The third

need is the need for significance. The

need to feel unique, to feel special, to

feel important. This is one of the most

important human needs. They're all

important. Some people value

significance number one. Some people

value certainty number one. So they live

a very different life, right? If you're

valuing certainty number one, you're

going to be holding back a little bit

back here. If it's uncertainty, you're

going to be charging forward. Right? The

direction of your life is driven by

which of these needs you value at the

top. Significance means to feel needed,

to feel important, to feel significant,

right? You can get significance by

working harder than anybody else, being

more generous. You can get significance

by be, you know, beating up on somebody,

right? You know, verbally tearing

somebody down. You have the illusion if

they go down, you go up, right? There's

so many ways to do it that are positive

and negative. The reason we have

violence is if somebody doesn't feel

significant and you're in that part of

town where maybe they're not being feel

like they're part of our society or

taken care of or have the same options,

somebody puts a gun at your head. Well,

how certain are they you're going to

respond 0 to 10? 10. How much variety is

every time it's different? And thirdly,

you're the most significant thing in

their life. I bring this up because this

is a critical principle. I know I'm

teaching a lot real quick, but you'll

see why it's important in understanding

how the technology and AI affects us and

the changes we're talking about. If if

you are in a position that you meet at

least three of your needs through a

belief or three of your needs by an

emotional pattern or three of your needs

by an action, you'll become addicted to

that belief, that emotion, or that

action. Whether it's a positive thing or

a negative addiction, you'll be addicted

to it. And by the way, unfortunately,

violence has always been with us and

will be unless there's a consciousness

change because it's one of the fastest

ways to feel significant and certain and

have variety. It also meets the fourth

need unfortunately, which is connection

and love. Not the love part, but the

connection part. Everyone needs

connection and love, right? We as human

beings if you're born you know as a

doctor in your background I know rocket

science doctor but you also know as a

medical doctor that if children not

physically held as as babies if they're

not having that kinesthetic touch they

get failure to thrive syndrome literally

they can die from the lack of that. So

we need that connection. Now most people

had love and maybe it disappeared or it

ended and so they settle for the crumbs

of connection but they still want that.

So you can get connection through, you

know, having problems and sharing your

problems with someone else. You can have

that connection by, you know, prayer.

You can have connection going going for

a run and feeling connected to God or

the universe. You know, you can feel

that connection by buying a dog cuz, you

know, cats leave, but dogs, you leave

for 2 minutes, it's like you've been

gone for 6 months. They're so happy to

see you, right? So there's many ways,

right, to get that sense of connection.

By the way, if you've ever seen two

people fight over whose problem's

bigger, I have this problem. I have this

problem. They're fighting over. They're

not fighting over the problems. They're

fighting over who's got a more

significant problem. Mine's more

significant. Right.

>> It's like when you and I battle over

who's been traveling too much.

>> That's exactly right. So the first four

needs are the needs of the personality.

Everyone needs certainty. And if you

have to lie to yourself, you'll do it.

If you have to work 20 hours a day,

you'll do it. People find a way to get

certainty. Now 0 to 10, they might get

5, six, seven, I don't know. And they

might get it in a way that's temporary.

If you take a bunch of sugar, you're

going to get a nice sugar high, but it's

going to drop. It doesn't last. Most

people meet their needs in a way that is

temporary, right? But certainty,

uncertainty, those two, you can see how

they'd feel like contrastive.

Significance. I want to be the one, but

then I want to be connected. So, you can

see the kind of conflicts that most

people find in these first four. But the

ultimate needs are spiritual needs. Not

religious, but spiritual. And that is

everything in life has to grow.

Everything grows or it dies. That's not

my law. It's the law of the universe.

And everything in the universe if it

doesn't contribute it's eventually

eliminated right so we have to

contribute we have to give something

when we contribute have something to

give and that's when you have a

spiritual high that's when people feel

fulfilled as opposed to for survival so

I say this because to let talk about

someone losing their job or their sense

of identity or their self-worth because

they're not doing it through their work

anymore or let's assume that there's no

need for work let's take this utopian

view I would be concerned about that if

I thought the only way we could meet our

needs for significance and certainty

would be through work but look we've

already lived a postwork world to some

extent if you go back in our history as

humans right when you were not evaluated

by your economic utility quote your job

we always ask what do you do in America

for example but that's not what's

happening then you were evaluated by

let's say your courage and war by your

creativity by your wisdom right by the

things that you could share your art or

your music or your ability to tell

stories

So there are many ways to meet our

needs. Right now we have been driven to

think of it only in one predict

predictive way for the last couple

hundred years but we've done it before

and we can do it again. But the answer

to your question is will we as a society

do that quick enough? Will everybody

make that happen quick enough? I'm

afraid to say the answer is no in my

opinion just because right now you have

the carrot and the stick that's driving

this technology especially AI and

nanotechnology right behind it and

everything else. The carrot is I can

make trillions of dollars and the stick

is if we don't do this China could

dominate the world. Yeah.

>> So as a result of that almost no money

is spent on safety and there's almost no

thinking about what's doing to jobs. You

know right now we are already seeing

high school students are having greater

in job employment than college students

for the first time. It's never happened

before in modern history. And that's

happening because people are leaving and

those middle jobs have disappeared.

Those first stage jobs have already

disappeared. Are we doing anything about

it? The answer right now is no. So, is

it concerning to me? Yes. My biggest

concern is if you don't have any work,

how do you find meaning? I know you can

do it. There's many ways to do it. But

we have to educate people and we've got

to retool them. And just like talking to

President Obama, there's very few people

actually looking at how to retool our

society. Other than say, well, to become

programmers, you know, they told people

go study code. Now, of course, as you

know, with Vibe Code, I I was just

talking to I think a mutual friend of

ours. I think you know, Robert Smith

over at Vista.

>> Yes.

>> 125 billion private equity firm. And he

I remember five years I talked to him. I

said, "What's the chokeold on your

business? It's getting more people that

can write code, right? More software

engineers. Right now, they're

eliminating them like crazy, right? They

only need a few, some really smart ones.

So, again, you don't lose your job to to

AI. you lose your job to someone else

use AI better than you do. So I think

the answer to your question is there is

a way to meet all of our needs. It's

going to be a call and I think what AI

is doing is it's a spiritual call. I

know that's my view of it.

>> We're going from survival values to

spiritual values

>> from external focus to more internal

focus that we're able to share and make

the world better. That's the upside of

this. But the transition time is going

to be painful. And if you look at

history, most of those transitions are a

5-year period roughly. If you look at

the every type of major disruption

that's happened with technology in the

past, I hope it's not like that. I hope

we can conversations like this like

we're having could be stimulative and

other people have them at a high level

and that people like you and I can try

to create as much influence with those

who have influence to make that shift.

But I there's no guarantee on it and I

think we have to be realistic to say

there's probably going to be some

disruption. Look, how many billionaires

that you and I both know that are

they're preppers right now?

>> Yes.

>> I mean, I know of a dozen of them that

got together. I got invited to this

meeting. I didn't go, but I got to hear

the details of it

>> and it's just blowing my mind. I mean,

we have mutual friends that are building

places underground and giant ranches and

hiring giants food stuff.

>> But so prepping for the future, that's

not the answer. So the way to prep for

the future is prep society by giving the

ability to have a different psychology

about change and figuring out the ways

in which we're going to create that

transport. Tony talk about like taxing

robots and so forth might be a part of

that. I

>> I I love you for this. And by the way,

anybody who's not going gone to Tony's

date with Destiny, which I've gone to

twice, it's an extraordinary experience

and I commend it to everybody. and

you'll explore these six human needs and

understand which of them drive you. And

you know, I'm not questioning whether

this transformation can occur.

>> Mhm.

>> I'm concerned that who in society or

what institution or what organizations

or what leaders are going to lead this

because I don't see anybody in

government addressing this. I see a

little bit coming out of the

hyperscalers

um which are in fact going to be the

wealthiest most powerful institutions on

the planet. Right? This Magnificent 7

right now is got you know a uh a revenue

equivalent to half the GDP of the United

States and more than 99% of the n of the

planet. So, who's going to take who's

going to take the lead? And, you know,

what type of programs need to be in

place to change this conversation at the

middle school and high school level,

right? Because right now, you know, with

your young daughter and your older older

children, it was always, okay, study

hard, this is important, you need to

contribute to society, you need to

learn, you need to do your math tables,

you need all of these things uh are are

effectively fading away. and how you

contribute, you know, ultimately the

conversation, we'll talk about this in a

few minutes, you know, how do you use

technology to upskill your purpose in

life, you know, to go for your

moonshots, you know, the analogy I like

to use is, you know, how do you how do

you create a Star Trek future versus a

Wall-E or a Mad Max future.

>> Yeah. Well, I think again, you know,

these are deep questions, but I think my

hope is the Elons of the world that, you

know, we've got a chance to be able to

chat with and you're good friends with

and some of our friends at Google and

some of those very individuals you're

talking about, I think the gentleman at

Anthropic has even more association to

some of this is to to say, look, we have

to do two things. We got to retool

people for this, but we got to retool

the psychology. And as you know, we did

that study at Stanford on, you know,

when in the middle of COVID, they came

to me and said, "You've gotten these

unbelievable results for two of their

professors who came to at Day with

Destiny, a six-day program." And what do

we do? We reorganized. They reorganized.

I didn't tell them how their value

system. Well, when you change your value

system, you change what you notice, what

you appreciate. If your number one value

in life is security, and the bottom of

your list is adventure, um, when you

walk in that seminar room, you know

where all the exits are. If your number

one value is adventure, you don't even

know which room, what door you came in.

You don't care, right? You literally

your predictive process just like AI

literally is rewired in that process.

So, we need to teach people how to

rewire themselves and we've proven it.

The Stanford study, you know, I asked

them in advance, you said they wanted to

do it on depression and I said, you

know, tell me what the meta studies show

about current treatments for depression

and blew my mind. 60% of the people that

go in for therapy or or drugs or the

combination thereof make zero

improvement on their depression. 60%

that's the meta studies.

>> 40% improve but on average they improve

half as much or 50% less depressed. Now

some get well but very few. Most stay on

these drugs. And I said man you should

be able to get that result you know with

a placebo. And I said so let's what's

the best study you've ever done? It was

done at Johns Hopkins about eight years

ago now.

>> For a month they gave people depressed

the psilocybin magic mushrooms

>> and cognitive therapy for a month. They

said well that much biochemical change

you must have got a change. They said it

was the most successful in history. They

got 56% of the people 6 weeks later had

no symptoms which is pretty unbelievable

compared to anything else. They said I

know this sounds like you know you know

I'm I'm exaggerating or you know I'm

there's ego involved. I'm not. We just

done this enough. If I know the rewiring

process, we will trounce those numbers.

So, you set it up the same way. And when

they did the study after 6 weeks, 93% of

the people had no symptoms whatsoever.

And the 7% had improved. But more

importantly, 17% of the people in the

study came in with suicidal ideiation.

When they left, none did. This is just

reorganizing, retooling. Right? Uh the

best part was a year later with no

interaction from me, their negative

emotions dropped 72% overall. Positive

emotions up 51%. Now why am I telling

you that? If you have the best Ferrari

in the world, let's call AI your

Ferrari, right? It can empower you to do

all amazing things at speed and amazing.

>> But you got to think about what the new

environment is you're driving that

Ferrari in. If you're going to the, you

know, Baja race, Baja 1000, and you try

to drive that beautiful Ferrari, it's

going to go nowhere. If you go to the

DAR race, you know, 9,300 miles in the

Sahara Desert, and you don't retool,

you're you're going to die out there.

And so, I think we've got to retool the

thinking processes, the emotions, and

we've proven we can do it. So, I think

with people, these types of things now

can be done at scale, as you know, like

I'll I'm doing my seminar um you know,

at the end of this month, I do one once

a year for free for people all over the

world. I've done it since co, right? And

and it's a we call it the time to rise

summit. It's time to take your life to

the next level. We offer it for free. We

had 1.3 million people last year join us

from every country on the face of the

earth. And every night we did I didn't

do it for two hours. I did it literally

for 3 days, three and a half hours a

day. And you see these huge

transformations that before I can only

do in an audience of 15,000 people in a

stadium. All that came by the way

because when they shut down during co

this big problem I had to adapt cuz I

wanted to help people. It wasn't you

know I got 114 companies but this is my

mission. So I was like, "Okay, we'll

move to Vegas. They shut down Vegas.

We'll move to Texas. They shut down

Texas. We'll do it in movie theaters."

They shut down the movie theaters. So I

built the studio and we started this

process. And so now the seminar is no

longer 15,000 people. A standard like,

you know, unleash power within event you

go to has got between 40 and 60,000

people because we have people at the

event live and people everywhere. So

everything is to your advantage if you

create these psychological shifts.

That's what has to happen in people. And

we need some players who want to help

fund that. And I'm doing it for free

where I can do it as much as I can. But

the tools exist. It's not like this. We

don't know what to do to rewire people.

But if we do nothing, we're going to

have problems and not everyone's going

to take advantage of that no matter what

you do. And you're going to have to deal

with that as a society still.

>> So first of all, we'll put the link to

Time to Rise in the show notes and

commend it again to everybody here. You

know, Tony, the maybe the advantage is

going to be AI Tony at scale. I mean,

we're going to have AI delivering, you

know, mass issues uh in this disruption.

Um,

>> well, not not only me, but I actually

I'm I'm in discussions right now with an

organization uh that has some of the

smartest AI people, I think, on the

planet, and we're talking we've they've

already got it up and running. We're

doing 50 languages. Uh we're doing

counseling and just not like I wouldn't

recommend the average therapist. I'm not

being disrespectful. I wouldn't

recommend the average coach in any

industry. there are people that are

exquisitely good, but they're they're,

you know, it's hard to get to them or

their their schedule's full. So, we're

going to make this available literally

worldwide for people to help them be

able to manage. They could pop on an app

and make it happen. Right now, it's done

for free for people. At some point,

there'll be a price point that'll be

reasonable. And I'm also I was just um

they just they haven't announced it yet,

but they just uh the Federal Advisory

Committee on Health and Human Services,

they've they've had I guess I don't

know, it was 2,000 people apply. I

didn't apply, but there's 15 people on

it and they just selected me and I'm

going to be the person who's the mental

health side. So, it gives me a chance to

really look at how I can have some

influence on the governmental side to

some of these tools, digital tools that

can help us do that because I think

digital tools are part of the answer.

>> We can scale them, right?

>> I think it's the only answer at scales.

When I, you know, I look at your six

human needs, right? Certainty and

uncertainty, variety, significance,

love, connection, growth, contribution.

AI is hitting every one of those in a

disruptive fashion, right? just in terms

of teenagers having relationships with

AI girlfriends is going to disrupt, you

know, normal course of social

development for individuals. I mean, the

level of uncertainty that's going to hit

people in their jobs, the level of

certainty when I always know I can go

get an answer and I have my AI that

loves me and always answer it, you know,

significance.

>> Not only not only does it love you, but

it always affirms you even if you're

being an idiot

>> and tells you, you know, your jokes are

hilarious.

>> You're the best. You're so smart. That's

such a great idea, right? It's crazy.

>> It is. So, I mean, it's going to screw

with our six human needs

>> in a very It already is. As you said,

like there's more certainty for me to

pick up my AI and then like I don't know

if you saw, but the latest statistic

Japan, they're talking about no one's

having sex. Yeah.

>> Right. They've moved completely out.

They're burnt out for work and then they

fulfill themselves digitally in every

way. They're going to they're as you

know, robots they think have a soul. So,

you know, they have a completely

different frame. But, you know, I saw a

statistic the other day. It blew my

mind. Here in the United States right

now, young men 25 to 33 years old, less

than onethird have ever approached a

woman to ask her out for a date

physically.

>> Yeah. And and that goes along with home

ownership. And you know, it's it's

crazy. It's we're we're destroying sort

of the existing social fabric in in many

ways. And the challenge is I believe

we're just at like the 5% of it all,

right? We're

>> I don't even I don't even know it's

five. You know, you and I both we can't

estimate something so big. But I think

you're right. It's at the beginning of

the beginning. The beginning. But I do I

do think there's a there's a a solution

that's available to us on a larger scale

too if we can at a fundamental level

just keep people to understand the story

of their life. I mean what is your life?

It's a story. And if you think about

like if you go to a movie, if you read a

book, you know, there's usually seven

elements of a story. There's the

fundamental way you know what the

story's about is the main character has

a desire, a driving desire. You know, if

you go back like 30 years and you look

at a terrible movie that almost

everybody's seen, Schwarzenegger made

this movie called True Lies. And in the

beginning of this movie, you see the

beginning of this guy and you realize

he's a spy and he's going after the bad

guys. And so, you know what his driving

desire is? That your desire determines

the story. Is your desire to come one

with God? Is your desire to make a

billion dollars? Is your desire to help

the planet? is your desire to save

children. Is it right poetry? That

starts your story. Then the next part of

your story is you take a look at this

and you start to say everybody has a

problem or a need or they wouldn't be

after that desire. And what you'll see

often is you as the person reading or

watching the story, you can see the main

character is missing courage or they're

not very kind or they're not telling the

truth. You know that silly example I

gave with Schwarzenegger. You know, he

looks like a superhero and he goes home

and you realize his family doesn't even

know he's a spy. He lies to everybody

about everything, right? And so he

doesn't have courage at home. He doesn't

have honesty. He doesn't have

connection. And then the next part of

his story is there's opponents always.

There are three opponents. There's the

external opponent like those bad guys

out here. But then there's the intimate

opponent. In that movie, he thinks his

wife is cheating on him and she's not.

And so he has fights there. But then

there's ultimately the fight within

yourself, the internal opponent. And as

you fight that, you usually come up with

a plan to deal with these opponents. And

if you want to make God laugh, tell her

your plans, right? You have battles. But

eventually, if you keep growing those

battles, you have self-revelation. You

have a moment when you realize, "Oh my

god, it's not her, it's me. I'm not

being honest. I'm not being courageous.

I'm being courageous here, but not here

where it matters." And that

self-revelation leads to new actions,

new character, and then you get to an

equilibrium where life will never be the

same again or, you know, happily ever

after. that elements of a story if you

can see where you are, where your

desires are, what your current plan is,

who you're battling with, that allows

you to step out of reaction. But the

ultimate step out is this, the oldest

story of humanity, first of all, you

need a really good opponent, right? If

you look at uh, you know, you know,

science of lambs and you see Tony

Hopkins, Anthony Hopkins with Jodie

Foster, he's so brilliant, it makes her

a bigger hero, right? But the hero's

journey story,

>> it's been taught a million times. It's

in every every culture in the world. We

all know of Joseph Campbell. But I just

want to remind people

>> if you can think of your life in terms

of the hero's journey, whatever you're

dealing with, technology change, job

change, career change, like everyone is

going to experience what the first step

is in that hero's journey. Your life

seems to be okay and then something

happens and they call it the call to

adventure. It doesn't feel like

adventure when your house burns down. It

doesn't feel like adventure and you're

burglized. It doesn't feel like your

adventure when you lose your job or the

government shuts you down with COVID or

you find yourself in a position where

someone says you have a tumor. But it is

the beginning of an adventure if you

don't give up. And so we experience that

extreme stress that people experience.

We're all going to experience it.

Doesn't matter how spiritual you are,

how religious you are, how believer you

are, doesn't matter how rich you are,

doesn't matter how sincere you are.

Everyone's going to experience it more

than once. But what happens is most

people try to not go on the call. Like

just ignore it. And it only gets worse.

As you know, if you the old phrase is if

you're going through hell, keep going.

If you push through those moments, the

people that do, they get three things

out of it. Number one, they realize how

strong they are. And all these other

things you're worried about go away

because you start realizing, I am so

much more than I thought I was. Second,

you learn who your real friends are, not

your Facebook friends or whoever you

call them, right? the ones that are

there when it's not going well. And

third, you get almost an immunity to

future challenges. I have a friend that

was in Vietnam and was shot down as a

pilot and spent six years in solitary

confinement and like you know, you know,

later on I remember the IRS was coming

after him and like aren't you stressed?

He's like after the North Vietnamese are

you kidding me? You know, no problem

here. So the first step in that journey

real fast, think of like Wizard of Oz.

Dorothy's got this black and white nice

life. It's okay. She thinks a big deal

is somebody wants to take her dog from

her cuz the dog bit somebody, right?

Little Toto. And what happens? She

avoids any real change. She just tries

to run away. But then life comes and

gets you. And when life comes to get

you, it comes, you know, when you try to

refuse the call, it says, "No, you're

going on the journey." The tornado takes

her. And she finds herself in a new

world where there are new people. She

makes some new alliances. She meets some

new mentors who are going to help guide

her. and she starts to go past the

threshold where she can't go back. She's

on this road. She's on this new journey.

And on that journey, she goes through

ordeal. She has to fight the dragon, the

witch in this case is the which wicked

witch of the east and the west. And

she's going to get to the promised land

where, you know, Oz is going to give her

everything. And she does all these

fights and she goes through all these

learnings and experiences and she

becomes more. And when she gets there,

she finds out this guy is not the the

person going to change my life. The

answer is already inside of me. The tin

man discovers that he already has a

heart. The stroke the straw man

understands he's got a brain. Yes,

there's courage. He's demonstrated. It's

not that you weren't fearful. You did it

anyway for the lion. And for her, it's

tapping your feet and saying there's no

place like home. Well, when you go

through that cycle, when you when you

slay the dragons, you become more and

you have now something to give. You come

home, a new person. And as soon as you

think it's all over, it happens again.

Right? So, so when I lost my home, you

know, I I've helped $6 million. I

donated because I just I couldn't stand

the pain. I saw people in LA, you know,

I don't live in LA because I saw people

there get a 14-day pass, right? What are

they going to do without a home? So, I

tried to help as many people as I could,

but some of the people helped

individually and some of the people I

got talked to, I was like, I lost my

home 20 years ago, burned to the ground.

Everything I had was gone. My family was

alive. That's what mattered. Everything

else was gone. There was no place to

store your pictures and your history in

the cloud. And I said, but what it led

to was a whole new world. I met new

friends. I had to move to a new place. I

met new mentors. And I have a dear dear

friend who I just recently talked to who

a year ago lost his home during that

time. He's in the best shape he's ever

been in. And he never would have made

those changes without the call. So AI is

the call. New technology is the call for

us to become more. Again, to move from

survival to spirit, to move from

settling to something greater.

>> I agree with it all. I'm I just want to

go back to one point before we we leave

it, which is

>> this does not exist throughout society

today. This is a small percentage of the

populace that have come to your

programs, have learned your teachings as

I have. I've been both I think a a close

friend and a a student of yours. And I

think that the only way we're able to,

you know, Isaac Azimad ha has Isaac

Azimov's foundation series, uh, if you

remember that book, foretold the

collapse collapse of the empire, and the

whole story is around how do we shorten

the dark age.

>> Yes.

>> Right. So I I believe from everything

I'm seeing, we're going to have a period

of disruption.

>> Yes.

>> Is that disruption 3 to 5 years, 3 to 8

years, 3 to 10 years? Uh, I don't know.

But the challenge has to be how do we

how do we emilarate the issues? How do

we shorten that time? And I think this

whole you know transformation of mindset

of purpose of understanding this as

opportunity and calling versus

devastation of your career is critically

important. And for whoever is listening

to the podcast um I think this is

important to teach your kids uh for you

to internalize in your on your own. I

think those who are in heads of

corporations or government leaders, this

conversation, this kind of planning

needs to start today because it's going

to take, you know, two or three years to

roll out. I think this has got to be in

middle schools and high schools. You

know, I'm decimated by the fact that

high schools today are avoiding the

discussion or utilization of AI. This is

coming, you know, the way towards my

14-year-olds faster than ever before. We

understand it. understand that you know

this is a uh a quote from um uh a a dear

a dear friend who basically uh said that

you know AI is uh is not a hand grenade

it's a jetpack right um and that's uh

that's how you should think about it

it's not something that's going to blow

up your life it's something that enables

you at scale

>> so I think Tony the conversation is how

do we do that right how do we how do we

get this deployed.

>> I I think it's uh it's certainly not

just what I'm teaching. I'm one of godly

knows how many people that have these

insights, but I think what it is is

having systems of scale. And so I think

the education system is a huge part of

that process. And that's why I'm

personally investing in several

approaches where it's a different form

of teaching. They're right now private

groups but uh you know looking to find

that ideal formula as you know there's

many of them where AI is a part of the

process and you can accelerate massively

the traditional learning but then kids

are learning to have grit like where

they got 5-year-olds doing you know a 5k

on their trike and they don't think they

can do it and they find out they can or

a group of kids come together they learn

how to you know rent and create their

own Airbnb experience you know there are

experiences of life that are coming and

there's a lot of it happening right now

but Is it going to come together? Look,

3 to 5 years probably we're going to

have some very challenging times. To

think that you're going to go and have

every season be the same is absurd. We

all think that how it is right now. If

it's terrible, it's always going to be

terrible. If it's good, it's always

going to be good. But the four seasons

of life happen. And so we will go

through a tough summer time or you could

call it a tough winter time. But you

know, some people freeze to death in

winter. Other people learn to ski and

snowboard and build a fire and be with

their family. And what I'm suggesting is

our discussions and many other

discussions, not just the ones we're

having, hopefully will stimulate more

people to say, I'm going to choose to

have this be a season I love and enjoy

and grow from, not one I'm fearful of.

And at the same time, I know not

everyone will. I'm going to do

everything I can to support individuals,

organizations, or tools that can help

people navigate this time period.

Because on the other side of it, again,

you'll have another springtime. You'll

have a time where, you know, there's

times when people are optimistic.

Everybody believes everything's going to

go great and it goes for a period of

time. But you got to remember human

beings are cyclical just like the

seasons. Our emotions are we go 15

years, 20 years if you study a thousand

years of Roman history or 500 years of

Anglo-American history which I've done

pretty deeply. You see there's period

there's that springtime where

everybody's optimistic. It's great. But

eventually if you smile constantly your

face hurts like we need variety. So then

you go through or the universe you go

through a summer that's a little tough,

a little hard and then you go to the

fall where everything's easy and you

reap and the economy is great and then

you go through a great winter. Life is

strengthening us, testing us and then

giving us a chance to grow. Testing us

and a chance to grow. That cycle is not

going to go away because technology

enters our world. It doesn't mean

because there's no work that there won't

be seasons. Those seasons are part of

nature. They're part of something larger

than ourselves. And so what you want to

do is figure out how do you take

advantage of what a season you're in.

How do you help your family? And I think

coming back to like developing some new

habits like okay getting your kids to

take 10 or 15 minutes a day that was

spent scrolling and they're going to

learn AI just 10 15 minutes a day. We do

courses for people like that or I'm

going to go do something in some area.

I'm going to study nanotechnology. I'm

going to study my own human psychology.

Taking these little microlearning

moments as a new habit will change

people's lives because it will get them

to start recognizing patterns, using

them, and eventually creating their own.

And when you create your own, when you

become a creator, all this fear

disappears. It's not that you won't have

challenging times. It's just nothing

sustains you more than your own

capacity, your own identity that says,

"I find a way always to take things to

the next level." And the biggest thing

missing I think for most human beings is

they're looking to what they can get

instead of what they can give.

>> Every person I know and you're one

included, you talk about moonshots,

right? It's like we found things we care

about way more than ourselves. Whether

it be your kids, your family, your

community. I mean, you know, you know, I

I I got fed when I was 11 years old. It

changed my life. We had no food. And now

I fed 62 billion meals. I did a billion

on my own here in the US. And now we've

done 62 billion towards our 100 billion

meals. I learned how to scale just like

I did in business my philanthropy and

that gives me more juice than anything

else. You got to have something that you

care about more than yourself and then

you have plenty of energy to face not

just the challenges but to surpass the

challenges cuz you'll have a compelling

future. The one thing I'd say everyone

needs. Anyone can deal with a difficult

today if they have a compelling

tomorrow. So when we go through this

process, we got to show people how to

navigate it and show them how to create

a compelling future out of it. And

again, I think what AI is really going

to do, if it does the things that, you

know, people are saying it's going to

do, if it really does eliminate a lot of

our survival instincts, if we have

access to an AI doctor, an AI whatever,

and we can create what we want in our

own life on our own terms, then the

bottom line is we still need to feel

alive, we need to grow. The one thing

that makes people feel alive is

progress. Progress equals happiness. And

if I'm growing and I'm stimulating that

growth, it doesn't matter that economics

are no longer the primary focus of it or

survival. It's something else that will

light me up. And we need to find that

what you call moonshot, what I call

magnificent obsession. And when you find

that, man, life is never the same again.

And you and I both know that we have the

privilege of living those lives, but we

develop that compelling future. And we

need to help other people do the same.

>> Yeah, agreed. We call it a massive

transformative purpose. what wakes you

up in the morning, keeps you going

through the day that you obsess over.

You know, let's talk about uh something

that I wrote about in my upcoming book

uh we are as gods. Tony, we've talked

about the universe 25 experiment. You

know, our dear mutual friend Dr. Oz

first brought it to my attention. I if

uh listeners don't know what universe 25

was, let me just do a quick recap. So

there was a behavioral scientist named

John Calhoun back in the late 60s, early

70s and he created a mouse utopia. This

was a large facility with all the food,

water, nesting, no predators, no

disease. It was a basically a mouse

paradise. It was his 25th time he'd done

this and he'd gotten the results

consistently over time. So initially the

he puts in four mating pairs the

population grows exponentially but it

reaches this threshold where social

behaviors begin to break down. Um the

mice withdraw they are apathetic.

They're hyperaggressive. Their social

dysfunction. Uh the mice stop mating.

Parenting declines. The infant mortality

spikes. And he describes these mice

called the beautiful ones that they

groom themselves all day long and they

lose any need for social behavior

reproduction. And then ultimately the

entire society of mice collapses not

from any external threat. And and he

talks about how the actual need for

purpose and meaningful challenge matters

more than almost anything else. And and

let's let's talk about that. you've

addressed that in part, but just, you

know, the purposeful life being

absolutely critical and and I think most

of society, their purpose is putting

food on the table and taking care of

their kids or getting a Netflix account.

And we're going to have to uplevel that

to a to a huge degree.

>> It's true. But one thing I'd just

caution though is we're not mice. Okay?

And you've done enough medical studies

to know that about 80% of the studies

they come up with affect mice don't

affect us the same way. But in this case

it's obvious mice do not have the c

ability that we're at least aware of

creating meaning. Right? We have that

capacity. We have the ability to use

death as a counselor. Something that

creates maybe a drive for us to do

something with our lives. We have the

ability to create something from

nothing. Um but but let's be honest uh

when people talk about Darwin, you hear

people talk about it's about the

strongest, you know, survive. And that's

not what he said. He said it's not the

strongest of the species that survives

is not the most intelligent. It's those

that are the most responsive to change,

the most adaptable do it. So it's like

our ability to adapt as a species is

unmatched. It's why we dominate the

planet for better or worse. You can

argue, but we dominate the planet. So I

think um having that sense of purpose

we've talked about it multiple times

here is critical but I think there are

many people that are going to take you

gave the example I think of the what you

call the wall example where I'm just

going to be entertained by the world and

just grow into a fat person that doesn't

move and moves around in a scooter

versus you know the Star Trek thing

where I'm going on the adventure to

uncover what things are. That's always

been true of humanity. It's that has

never changed and I don't think it's

going to change with us. There are going

to be people that are going to use AI

and all this technology to just be

entained and do nothing. Think about it.

Right now, there are from the ages of 25

to 35 male boys, men, young men are

living at home, a larger percentage than

any time in human history, including the

depression. And what do they do? The

majority of them play video games. Their

mom clean does their laundry and they

own order Uber Eats. and they live in

that universe, that digital universe

where I don't know how much added value

is happening for their life, much less

anybody else. So there's always going to

be those who maintain and there's going

to be those that create. Uh there's

always going to be people like yourself.

>> I think you made I think you made my

point. I think he made the point about

the universe 25 experiment. there is

that population who are just self

soothing uh because it's it's easy and

and unless there's the intellectual um

sort of the groundwork placed early on

in in a child's life I mean one of the

challenges and I think about this as a

parent is like you you know you're a

perfect example hardship early in your

life develops this need right I had that

conversation with Elon he was you know

in uh in South Africa it was a very

dangerous place and his goal was to

escape there. Um, and most successful

people, not all, but most successful

people had a sense of hardship early on.

And if we're eliminating a lot of

physical need hardships, um, you know,

you don't want to try and artificially

create that. But again, I'm going back

to how do you uplevel people's sense of

of purpose in this regard?

>> You what you have to awaken is hunger.

What you're really talking about is

hunger. Hardship can awaken hunger, but

so can creativity. You know, sometimes

your life doesn't change. Then you meet

somebody and they have this

extraordinary life, something that you

value relationship wise, business-wise,

impact, lifestyle, whatever. And people

look at them and go, "Man, I'm as smart

as that guy is. What the hell's

happening here?" And they awaken to a

new possibility. It doesn't have to be

cuz you were something was taken from

you. There are some people that are just

driven to be the best at their life and

there wasn't necessarily hardship, but I

think more have been. That's absolutely

true cuz hunger is I'm asked all the

time people say you know you meet people

all over the earth you meet the most

challenged most successful what do the

most successful people on earth have in

common and my first response in early

days was extraordinary intelligence cuz

I love wickedly smart people you being

one I'm not floating floating you

compliments you know who you are I'm a

fairly smart guy myself and so I I love

that I love that interaction but I found

there are brilliantly smart people that

can't fight their way out of a paper bag

in real life so the number one factor is

hunger the hunger to be more, do more,

create more, give more. A hunger that

never goes away. You know, the hunger

that you say, you know, when you look

at, you look at somebody, you know, like

Richard Branson, like, you know, he

still has it in his 70s that he did when

he was 16 in that cemetery, you know,

starting up his little music company,

right? So, uh, it's virgin at this time.

He still has it today. As long as that

hunger is alive, the world is going to

be something that's going to be a

beautiful place for you. And all these

tools are tools you will use with your

agency to create something

extraordinary. But look, there's levels

of consciousness. Just one more model

for a second. There's Genon Graves, Dr.

Graves, who in the '60s, you know, it

looked like the world in the early '7s

was coming apart. Young people were

fighting older people, you know, people

who just looked in the short term as

saying our society is being pulled apart

into nothingness. You know, black and

white, women versus men, all these

issues. and he started studying the

evolution of societies and he developed

what he called these eight levels of

consciousness and anyone uh who hears

about it it's worth looking at right and

what he did was he calls it spiral

dynamics now I learned about it when I

had the chance to work with Nelson

Mandela cuz when he was coming back

after a quarter century of being locked

up he could have wanted to kill every

white person in around and you wouldn't

support it but you'd understand right

cuz everything was taken from him

unfairly but instead he got people to

stop thinking white versus black by

using these colors. He took these spiral

dynamics into colors. Is that person a

blue person or a green person or a red

person? So, let me give it to you for 10

seconds. The first there's eight levels

real fast. Well, maybe you can put them

on the screen later to show people. But

level one is just survival or instinct.

That's someone that's basically when

you're a baby when or when you're really

old and you don't have your faculties,

you're you know you're basically

stimulus response. level two of

consciousness. And again, consciousness

means what do you care about? You don't

need to make it more intellectual than

that. At the second level, what they

call purple, it's called tribal order.

You care about things and you care about

other people because they can affect

your pain or pleasure. So, you join a

tribe. Now, you can be on a sports team

and see people in tribal order who wear

the same jock strap, who put on the same

thing. They believe in the certain, you

know, rhythms that are going to give

them the same result, certain gods,

right? But in the tribal order area,

there's someone who leads in. It's

usually the storyteller, the shaman. We

evolve. Each of these stages evolve

because we get to a point we can't

handle our problems. And so our brain

finally forces ourselves to look at life

in a new way. The third level is called

power gods. A power god they think of as

red. And think of it as when you go red

mad. A red person is a person who no

longer just wants certainty anymore.

They want significance. And so now a red

person might be, you know, the kings of

of the past who just took the peasants

and you work for me, you live for me,

you die for me, right? Power gods could

be, you can find a power god today in

some, you know, bands, right? You can

see out there rock stars. They go and

they can wreck the whole building and

somebody pays all the money and they

keep doing it. Everybody was a a

2-year-old power god, right? No is the

word you learn to say. So not everybody

evolves. And I'm telling you these

because we get to certain levels and

they affect the way we look at life. The

fourth level is called order in the

absolute. This is blue. Why would you go

from being the power god where you're in

charge and you own everything and you

have the power and you're the most

significant one? Because at some point

you think about death or you're getting

older and a young power god's coming up.

And so that evolved into I need to

figure out how I can be good forever.

And blue became the idea of the

religious approach that if I can follow

these universal rules then I can have

heaven forever. I can have this kingdom

forever. I can have this beauty forever.

But now I have to go from just thinking

about my own certainty and my own

significance to how do I affect other

people? That was the value of religion.

I have to look at that because it

affects whether I'm going to be damned

or not. And it became a new

consciousness. Well, blue has its limits

because after a while people start to

question how could this one guy, whether

it's the pope or or the general in the

army, that's another blue environment.

The rules are clear. You live by them or

you're punished severely. Right? Well,

we evolved from that cuz people start

saying, "I don't buy it. I don't believe

they have the whole answer. I want to

try it on my own." And that evolved into

what modern society is, at least in a

good portion of America, which is what

we call a strived driver, an orange.

That's a person who's like, "No, I test

the rules. I'm in business or I'm a

scientist. I'm going to test it and

prove it works and if it works then it

doesn't matter what you think. That's

what science is. That's what basically

business is. Then people get burnt out

on that eventually because everything is

a transaction. I'm doing this to prove

that to get this and that can evolve to

green which is what most of us think of

as socially conscious where instead of

everything is rule driven like we all

have a voice. We all care. We think

about the environment. We think about

everything. But each level has its

strengths and weaknesses. They all think

they're the most important level. You

know, if I ask people, "Which level are

you?" And they'll some people, "I'm

socially conscious. I'm the top of the

tree." Or, "I'm a business person. We

employ all you greenies and make it

possible for you." Or the reds go, "I

don't give a damn. You know, you screw

around. I'll take your life." Or the

blues go, "I need to save you." They

look at the same problems in different

ways, but they all think they're

superior. When the truth is, we need

them all. Like if I said to you, what's

more important? The atom or the

molecule? What would you say?

>> They are one's a component of the other

and they're both critical.

>> The molecule or the cell? You get the

game, right? The cell or the organism.

The organism or the ecosystem. The

ecosystem or the planet. The planet or

the earth. So you take out any chain and

we all fall apart. So they're all

invaluable. And the goal is to move up

and down this. There is a seventh level

called yellow which is flex flow. Flex

Flow knows that, you know, we need to

have some sense of hierarchy like orange

and blue look at, but we also need to be

able to flex like green can. And it

allows you to look at things and say,

not who's there because of the number of

years, but who has the answers. And then

the final level that he talks about is

an awakened soul. That's where you feel

everything. I feel humans. My wife feels

animals. She can tell what's going on.

And we've all have moments of these

levels. Now, why am I telling you this?

Cuz right now most of the world is in

trouble is at level two, three and four,

meaning purple, red power gods, you

know, order in the absolute it's this or

it's that or I kill you type of thing.

Modern society is more level five that

orange driver and some green. AI is

going to take away potentially if it can

do the things that you were talking

about and that Elon's talking about and

eliminate bring this world of abundance.

It literally takes us out of all these

survival elements and calls us to go to

this integrated view of life, this

spiritual awakened tool of life where we

feel connected to everything and we can

create things at that level. So, there's

going to be people that do that and

there's going to people that going to

play their video games or the new

version of that that's 3D totally

immersive and we're not going to get

away from that. But here's what I'll

tell you about history. You can find

history in four sentences.

Good times create weak people.

We have society back in the roaring 20s

that if you were a kid, you were known

as a flapper and you were irresponsible

and the whole world changed with

technology overnight. Cars, radios,

television, airplanes. It was

unbelievable. And you thought when I

turn 1918, I'm going to get a car.

You're born in 1910, let's say. And

guess what? 1929 comes when you're 18

years old, 19 years old. And people are

jumping out of buildings and people are

standing in food lines and you got the

dust bowl in the middle of the country.

And that generation of people who were

so weak went through 10 years of

depression from 19 to 29 and they got

strong cuz they had to be. And then

right when they thought they were going

to have a break, World War II breaks

out. Hitler looks like he's winning. And

they go and fight the war and they come

back. So they spend 15, 20 years till

basically the time they're 35 years old

living with unbelievable challenge. And

that's the only way you build a muscle.

So guess what? Weak easy times that were

in 20s created weak people. Weak people

paid bad times. Bad times create strong

people. And strong people create great

times. And you can see that evolution in

every hundred years and 20 year cycles.

and are today you'll hear you know

people that are you know X generation or

even uh you know somebody older you know

talk about let's say millennials today

or talk about you know Z generation and

they talk about how they're so spoiled

and they got it so easy and there's some

truth to that they haven't out of work

anywhere near as much as other

generations but I guarantee you we're

going to face some real challenges

coming up and those are the new hero

generations the very generations people

don't think of they understand

technology and they're going to learn

how grow and build muscle and they're

going to help make the world a better

place in my opinion. I think that's the

next step. The evolution of

consciousness that technology is going

to call for us.

>> And speaking of conscious and brilliant

individuals, I'm going to use this as a

as a point to invite my moonshot mates

in if it's okay.

>> Yeah, I would love that. Let's uh let's

let's bring him in and I'll introduce

you to him.

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>> Tony, I want to introduce to three of my

best friends, my moonshot mates I call

them. Uh, Salem Ismael. Salem is the CEO

of Exponential Organizations, was my

co-founder with Ray at Singularity. Yes.

>> Alex Weezner Gross is our resident

genius in the world of AI and all things

exponential. And Dave Blondon, my

partner in my AI lab. Yes. Uh anyway,

three amazing individuals and I've had

the chance to cover so many subjects

with them and uh uh I wanted to bring

them in to have this conversation for

the next 30 minutes or so.

>> I wish we I wish we were asking these

questions of them so I could hear their

answers at this time. So

>> and and I welcome you to ask the

questions of them as well.

>> We will some other time we'll do a

follow-up.

>> Who wants to jump in first? Salem

>> Tony, I got to say I I've been teaching

a class at MIT called Foundations of AI

Ventures for the last five years and uh

two semesters. So 10 classes about 130

people in each class. So you know 1300

people have heard me say act like Tony

Robbins. There's only one winning

attitude in life because everyone comes

in you know they're a student. They

think they want to be too cool for

school or they want to be like no

there's only one way to act that

actually works. If you have any desire

to be an entrepreneur, to a builder or

creator, just study every video of Tony

and act exactly like that. It's the

winning strategy. So, thank you for for

being a role model for those 1300

people.

>> Thank you. That's

>> not to mention me, by the way.

>> Thank you. I'm very kind.

>> Uh you can't be can't be too kind to

Tony.

>> I'm curious as you're dealing with these

kids today. What What are the biggest

questions that they're dealing with as

they look at where the world's unfolding

with technology?

exactly what you guys have been talking

about. Um, you know, one thing you

touched on is Japan, but if you look at

Korea, uh, you know, has the highest

tech penetration in the world, highest

smartphone penetration in the world.

Samsung has record profits. By any

technical metric, it should be the

greatest place on earth, highest suicide

rate in the world, and 6 children per

couple. So basic basically 6 children

per couple. at that exponential decay

rate, it'll disappear from the earth in

just a couple generations. Like how

>> there's there and this is what they're

thinking about and it's good that

they're thinking about it because they

want to live in a happy, abundant,

fruitful world with their friends.

Exactly the things that you guys were

talking about and AI is is going to

create this rate of change that is just

beyond belief and it doesn't correlate

with happiness necessarily. It needs to

be turned into happiness. Well, we all

know we've met people. We all know

people that have got, you know, more

than enough economic resources, billions

of dollars, and who are miserable. You

know, those are phone calls that I often

got to deal with and deal with with

people. So, the abundance doesn't

guarantee anything. But I do agree with

you. I think unfortunately the level of

engagement. What's the biggest problem

in business today? It's engagement. You

know, we used to, you know, it's the

lowest level since co that we've ever

had. You know, they look at engagement,

what's obvious, disengagement, which is,

you know, what we now call quiet

quitting, where someone's doing the

minimum, and then active disengagement,

which is someone who's not only trying

to do the minimum, but also trying to

hurt the company. And we've had the

biggest drop in engagement and the

highest increase in active

disengagement. And so, it's like what's

happening is people are fulfilling

themselves other ways, like why should I

go to work? Why should I do this? So, we

have a a cultural shift where technology

is meeting some of those six needs.

They're getting certainty easily. I

don't have to do anything for the

certainty. I don't have to grow. I don't

have to push myself. I don't have to

face my fears. They get unlimited

variety. They can feel significant by

tearing somebody down with a couple key

strokes. They don't even know. And they

have no volatility, meaning there's no

consequence for that.

>> And then the they also can feel

connected to other people the same way.

But what they don't experience is the

spiritual needs, which is to grow. And

also when we grow have this thing that

where we have something to give and

that's where the emptiness is. That's

why we have so many people out there

talking about you know their their

mental health or and and and the

solution that we've been promoting since

co or at least pop culture has been

promoting has been this idea of you need

to take care of yourself more. What's

the term everybody uses these days?

>> Self-care, right? I don't need more

self-care. But what you find is that

people get weaker and weaker. Don't get

me wrong. you need to take care of

yourself. But I think the biggest

challenge is without the push to build

anything of any form of muscle, meaning

a spiritual muscle, courage, faith,

determination, right? Creativity. If

there's no push for that, then we start

to diminish. And I think what has to

happen, I think I don't I don't have the

right answers by any stretch. I'm

actually encouraged by countries like

Australia who some things I don't like

they've done like what they did during

co but I like the idea of some of these

countries that are starting to say hey

kids can't get on social media till

they're 16 17 18 you only get so many

hours unfortunately you'd expect that to

be parents but we no longer have family

units the same way or any cohesion in

the teaching today so many people I read

a statistic the other day it said a

third of families have someone in their

family they don't talk to anymore

>> to me that's insane

But we aren't teaching people that look,

life is about us sharing, we can have

different points of view. It's if we

have a different point of view than me,

then I have to eliminate you. Or that

words are violence. I mean, Chris Rock

said to me, he goes, "If people say

words are violence, they've never had

their face slapped the out of

national television, right?" You know,

it's like just So, we have

these belief systems we poured into our

younger generation that are actually

harming them and then we're giving them

tools that addict them and they're

wondering why our society isn't

flourishing. It's kind of like, think

about it this way. When we have a bunch

of people that are financially not doing

well, we put them together in a project.

How are they ever going to get better

when there's no examples of success

there? We take a bunch of people that

are crazy and put them in a mental

institution and wonder why they don't

get better. The way we get better is by

different examples and offerings. And so

we need to go full force in my opinion

as business owners, as entrepreneurs, as

leaders, as people in politics where we

start to say what are the two or three

things that can make the biggest

difference. Part of that has got to be

in the educational system as we've

already talked about, but I think

another part of that is just what is the

discourse? What is the narrative about

what's going to give you a fulfilled

life? Because most people have fallen

into making a living. They've been

disappointed by so many things. They're

no longer designing their life and now

they're in that maintaining mode and

they're stressed all the time. During co

there was a woman in the New York Times

who did an article with all these people

are trying to do less and less so they'd

be less stressed. And she taught them

9week basic time management course. I

mean really basic. And what she found

was that their life satisfaction scores

their work level went up three times.

Their life satisfaction scores went up

4x

>> just from learning how to get more out

of their life.

>> That is one of the greatest sources.

>> We don't teach anybody. If we don't

teach young people any of these skills,

then they wonder why they wind up

addicted to, you know, some devices that

are designed to addict them, you know.

>> Yeah. You can see you can see how this

could go horribly wrong and how it could

be really really good. And exactly what

you said cuz cuz AI could be like junk

food, emotional junk food, you know, you

just get addicted to the easy path and

before you know it, you're emotionally

fat. Um or it could go the other

direction where it you commit that I

want to be a better person and you just

tell the AI hold me accountable.

>> Yes.

>> And then it becomes like a life coach.

It keeps you on track. It encourages

you. It motivates you. And it really

comes down to whether the people behind

it

>> are motivated by improving the world or

motivated by squeezing money out of you,

you know, or or some other negative

motivation.

>> And it's all just

>> and what's your bet on which one's the

driving force for the majority?

Well, I think you know you have such a

huge following of highly motivated

people or who people who want to be

highly motivated. If there's a good

option out there and we'll keep track of

it, you know, ourselves on this pod, but

if there's a good option out there, you

can point a lot of people toward it and

it can make a huge impact on the world.

>> Anything you know of that nature, I hope

you guys will fill me in. You know, you

got access to me through Peter in two

seconds flat. You know, I want to make

sure that we get as much out there as

possible. And like I said, I'm I've been

put on the the federal advisory

committee for health and human services

and some of that on mental health that

should give me another avenue of having

deeper discussions because you know I

know a lot of people in that position.

Bobby Kennedy's a friend of mine face

Dr. Oz is a friend of mine. Marty is a

good friend of mine. So we've got a lot

of brilliant people in that area on the

health side and I think you can attack

it from the mental health side is one

part of it. But I think we got also you

know you you see all these kids that

think they will think communism is the

answer right? What I don't know if the

number is accurate, but I I've heard

that read someplace that 80% of the

female vote of young people went to

Mandani, right? It's like, okay, here's

the solution because it sounds so nice.

I'm old enough I went and actually when

it was still the Soviet Union, I was

invited over because of the work I was

doing with firewalking, things of that

nature. So, I went with a group of

scientists and I traveled the country

and I got to see pure communism right up

front. And we traveled on this train

literally from Moscow to Siberia and

back over a period of two weeks. And we

were on a train where everybody's

supposed to be equal and everybody there

is having caviar and everything else.

And every train stop in every town there

is a giant center area. And you'd see

people wrapped in the freezing cold

three, you know, 3/4 of a mile around

waiting in line to get a quart of milk

and half a loaf of bread. I mean, and

these people having caviar. It turned me

into a capitalist. I didn't even know

what a capitalist was. When I left

there, I was so pissed. But kids today

have no clue. They just think it means

more good stuff. And it's, you know,

some of these kids have been had a

helicopter parent that took care of them

their whole life. And so they think the

government should be that. They don't

know the cost of what that's going to

be. And unless we keep putting out the

truth and also we find solutions to help

them through this unique time, then I

think uh we're we're in for a rough

rough patch here for a period of time.

>> Yeah. Isn't it amazing how much faith

they put in the government though? like

as if as if it's there like somebody up

there must be studying and understanding

all of this. I mean you you are the

government now, right? It's Tony, you're

the guy actually. You should tell us

more about that commission because

that's going to be hugely important in

this transition year.

>> What is that all about?

>> Well, they just formed it and they

haven't even announced it all yet, but

there's 15 of us on the council. I'm the

mental health one. So, I'm going to be

sitting down with them or we're looking

at what's the game plan for maximizing.

But the first focus is tapping into

digital technology to improve the

quality of people's lives. So, I'm sure

you know they're already going to invest

now for people, you know, on Medicare

and so forth, so they can wear like

their whoops and measure what's really

going on with people. They want people

to have that. But then there's the

mental digital mental health side that

can help people like AI counselors. I

mean, we're, as I said, I'm working with

a company right now. We're producing

some results that even blow my mind

where it isn't an average person. It's

the best of the best. they've read every

single psychological book there is. But

then we can guide them through some of

the latest tools cuz some of that

technology is a hundred years old. It'd

be like you wouldn't use a phone from 10

years ago. Why would you even consider

that technology from 100 years ago

related to our mind? But that's

traditionally what we do in traditional

psychology. So there are tools

available.

The digital world the digital world can

help us scale that. That's where we can

make a difference. You

>> believe all the positions you could have

in the entire world right now. and

what's one of the most powerful and

important ones. I mean that that role as

the the person in charge of health with

AI federally at the national level, you

can't pick anything more critical to the

success of the country and to the world.

>> I'm not in control of it. I'm an

adviser. I don't want to play video,

>> but it does put me in a position to be

able to take the stuff that I learned

from you guys and other people and say

bring it to the table for discussion.

And I think we have an administration

here that, you know, whether you like

the administration or not, the one thing

they are is aggressively trying to do

the most they can to get people to be

healthy again, to get poisons out of

foods and to operate in ways that could

help people have an emotional base that

is different than we have right now. We

have the largest mental health issues

that we've heard about and godly knows

when. You've seen what suicide rates

have been and so forth. Postcoid, we've

gotten weaker and we've got to become

stronger.

Well, I keep telling everyone around

the, you know, the schools all hate the

administration because these, you know,

they're cutting funding, whatever. I

tell everyone, look,

>> I don't care whether you like the

administration or not. This is the only

one that matters in the AI era.

>> We're only one year into it, guys.

There's three more years to go. Look at

the rate of AI change. So, so either get

comfortable with the administration, but

if you wait it out, it's over. So,

>> so four years from now, it's going to be

a different world.

>> Yeah. Yeah, Tony, when you when you talk

to young people, um what are the best

techniques you found that that awaken

that hunger in them? What are the

techniques and hacks that you've found?

>> I I find uh telling them like I never

used to tell my story of what actually

my my youth was like. Um you know, my

mother was the most influential person

in my life and God rest her stole I

wouldn't be who I am without her. But

she also mixed alcohol with prescription

drugs and when that happened uh she was

extremely violent. And so I remember the

first time I was with this group of kids

and they all were uh had single mothers

um from minority families, majority and

I was up there speaking to them

initially and I could just see read

their minds. You know this tall rich

guy, white guy, you know what the hell?

And so I just first time my life I told

the whole story. I was never derogatory.

My my mom has passed at this stage but I

just told them the burning truth. I had

them all crying their eyes out by the

time I was done. So then they understood

that hey we have the same background

element and then I told them your

biography is not your destiny. It

doesn't matter where you've come from.

It's the choices you make now. And so I

got credibility by entering their world

in a way that was absolutely as real and

raw as possible. And I used you know

very direct language that they

understood at that stage. I entered

their world. And so I find it's really

critical to try to see who you're

dealing with no matter where you are in

the world. Right? you know, if I'm going

to speak in China, you know, I have to

understand the cultural rules there or

I'm not going to be able to reach people

appropriately. I know the human needs

are the same, but I got to still make it

through those rules. So, I find with

kids, if they can see that this is real,

cuz you know, we live in a world where

everybody talks about the wealth gap.

Well, a big part of the wealth gap is

there's about a dozen people that are

getting a hundred billion, 200 billion,

300 billion. You know, that that it's

very different than the mean, as we'd

know. And so when you're when you're on

social media, you used to compare

yourself to the neighbor, right? Now you

compare yourself to billionaires.

There's what 3,000 of them roughly in

the world. I mean, no, that'll make you

feel like you're behind. It's literally

what made, you know, Russia, you know,

change. People start to see what's

happening to West and said, "I wanted

that." But now we're creating a level of

discomfort and unfairness to people

because they're having an expectation

that they should be the winners of the

lottery. And not everybody is going to

be even if you're smart and even if

you're incredibly skilled. So I think

it's getting it real and showing there's

still a path because so many kids think

there's no path to having a home to no

path to having and I tell them look when

I bought my first home I was 18 years

old. It was 2008 and interest rates at

that point were you know 16%. You know

it's like they look at me like are you

crazy? You know it's like people are

complaining about 7% you know 6%. So, I

think it's entering their world, showing

them what's real, and demonstrating it

still can be done, and helping them

build a compelling future. To me, that's

the most important part.

>> I'm a I'm a Tony AI subscriber, by the

way, so I've really been enjoying

getting your

>> Oh, glad to hear that. That's great.

>> Yeah. Although, I've got a slight beef

with you. You know, back in Singularity

University, you'd brought your platinum

group and I moderated the couple of days

and then you took me aside afterwards

and you said, "I need a couple of

minutes with you." And you said,

"There's a group of people that know the

world is changing dramatically. I call

that the TED crowd. You said

>> there's a subset of that group, you said

that that knows how deep and broad that

change is, which is kind of like your

singularity people. But then there's a

number of people that know what to do

about it. I would put that group on one

hand. And you said, Sim, you're one of

them. Don't stop if you have any

inclination on this stuff. And that's

been bugging me ever since. So, so

thanks a lot.

>> It's acknowledging who you are.

>> Appreciate it, but dank.

>> Uh, Alex, why don't you pop in?

>> Alex, you want to say something

brilliant?

pressure on.

>> By the way, Alex has has three degrees

from MIT in four years, the three

hardest you can get.

>> And his PhD from Harvard, so it was

actually three plus one. Anyway, sorry.

>> Congratulations on your new advisory

position. And I should say as a

preliminary matter, I I don't have any

financial interest in in your budding

empire, but congratulations nonetheless.

Did have a question based on your your

anecdote about the Soviet Union. So

there are millions, as I understand it,

who look to you for insight in terms of

gaining financial freedom, thinking

about retirement. And yet, and yet in

the next 10 years, there are many,

myself included, who think that advances

in AI are going to transform the way

finance is done perhaps beyond

recognition. First question, would you

be interested in leading sort of a

Manhattan project for the global economy

to prepare people for a new world, a new

economic world where perhaps money as we

know it is obsolete and scarcity as we

know it has turned to abundance.

>> Well, I'm not I don't know if I'm

qualified to be the leader, but I'd love

to be a supporter of it any way I could

be, of course. And I I and one thing I I

try to get across to young people also

because this is coming is besides the

obvious of what they can do now and what

they can do today and what they have

control over is I remember when I was um

uh 18 years old I had a teacher named

Jim Ran. He was a personal development

and kind of a business philosopher and

you know I had four different fathers