Triggered AMC Apes Confront Me about $APE Stock.

hey everyone me kevin here so i got a

lot of hate yesterday for suggesting

that it's a good idea to sell ape which

i sold at eight dollars and two cents a

screenshot on screen and now and instead

bought amc

and the reason for that becomes a little

bit more clear when you hear my

confrontation or should i say debate

between myself and the other apes i was

thankfully led in by tara bull 808 on

twitter into her twitter space yesterday

and was able to discuss what's going on

with my opinion about amc and ape

on

a twitter space that had thousands of

you listening now i want to make one

thing absolutely crystal clear before we

go into this

ape is believed by many to be

economically equivalent to amc shares

that's because of this particular chart

that says they have the same economic

equivalence however economic equivalence

really only matters in the event that

there are dividends which we don't

expect there to be dividends for years

for amc or in the event of bankruptcy

and liquidation which obviously we are

trying to avoid so really economic

equivalence is not something that

matters right now instead what matters

is that

one day

ape shares will be convertible to amc

shares

even someone who suggests that there's a

lot of misunderstanding going on between

ape and amc and someone who is actively

shorting amc and acknowledges this

confusion

is going long on ape solely because they

believe that in the future ape will

become an amc share why would you why

would you rather have the preferred

versus the the original share what like

why is one better than the other or

you're just counting on them to close

i'm counting on them to close in effect

that i think they'll ultimately all be

the same class but the danger here folks

is very simple it's this particular

frequently asked question right here if

condition one does not occur that is are

the shares of ape convertible to amc and

amc replies and says well technically

yes weird qualifier but if both of the

conditions don't occur a or number one

the board proposes a vote to allow ape

shares to convert to amc shares and two

the shareholders approve it then there's

no convertibility and the board is under

no obligation to actually authorize the

convertibility of ape to amc so even

those who are playing arbitrage on ape

to get to amc

might never get that opportunity now i

hope it happens and i also hope that in

the meantime ape goes to the moon

because the more ape goes to the moon

the more amc gets to pay down its debt

with no obligation to ever take the

dilution of the ape shares and it makes

amc

a better investment but just know if

you're playing the arbitrage looking at

ape going okay well ape is seven dollars

or seven dollars and fifty cents and

amc's ten dollars they should be the

same

you have a market discount that needs to

be priced in for two massive problems

one it might never convert and number

two

ape can be diluted to the tune of an

additional four and a half

billion

shares

you'll learn more when you listen to the

details in this debate that i have with

the apes so folks listen to my debate

here and let's get into it okay perfect

yeah no i i have no uh

misintend for anyone here if if anything

uh you know i i worry that you know i

hate kind of being one of the front

runners sometimes at least what i feel

in in bringing up uh perspective or

questions or concerns that i have

because sometimes it just makes it seem

like oh here comes mr fudd again and the

thing about me is i i literally just sit

in the studio and think to myself oh my

gosh but what if this happens right and

so here's my big concern to kind of

simplify everything for for the amc

folks here and the eight folks here

we've all at this point seen the

comparison between amc preferred equity

units and common stock chart we've all

seen that the problem is that chart

actually sits under the umbrella of a

very very important phrase and the very

important phrase is in the sec filing

under faq question three are the amc

preferred equity units convertible into

common stock if so when and the answer

is quote technically yes the amc

preferred equity units can convert into

common stock now they give two

conditions for that and they say in bold

italicized and underlined they don't

want to get sued for this in the future

say they want to be crystal clear this

is the only thing in the filing that

they bolded underlined and italicized

but only if

quote two conditions one the amc board

proposes an increase in the number of

authorized shares number two then

investors vote to approve obviously we

expect ape shareholders would vote to

approve and there are 50 percent of them

out of you know the combined total

amount of shares so it has a likely

chance of passing unless every single

one on the amc side voted against it

which i expect is somewhat unlikely but

could happen but the biggest thing is

the amc board has 100 control over

whether or not there ever will be a vote

in the future and here's what folks are

forgetting is that this conversion even

if it did happen it does not need to

happen at a one-to-one conversion see if

in the future after as matt has said uh

ape gets diluted 27 different times

which i expect it will i think they're

gonna fully uh blow through these next

four and a half billion shares uh as

soon as they can to raise money for amc

which is the point to eradicate amc's

debt then what happens at that point is

ape might be worth a dollar or five

cents or ten cents and then maybe what

you'll get is hey for every 100 units of

ape you have you'll get one share of amc

oh look amc share is gone or amc's debt

is gone now bottom line out of all this

and i'll stop talking bottom line out of

all of this is it's really good for amc

because if ape fails it literally cost

amc

nothing

absolutely no cost to amc other than

some miscellaneous filing fees call it a

hundred or two hundred thousand dollars

big deal maybe it's even 300 grand

whatever that's nominal for this company

now what did it uh

what is the potential if ape moons and

it goes to say twenty dollars and amc is

able to dilute the crap out of eight

right back down to ten or five or a

dollar well they pay off all their debt

and maybe they even raise another five

billion dollars and they build twice as

many theaters uh and they partner with

dave and busters or they buy dave and

busters i don't know they can do

anything they want but the point is

ape

has absolutely no claim to actually be a

common stock of amc that convertibility

that everybody keeps referring to unless

the board actually proposes the vote and

until the board proposes the vote you

have nothing and this is why i tweeted

the ceo and said hey let us know if you

actually intend to do this which we know

he's not going to reply to because if

you actually read the q a they literally

wrote however quote we do not currently

expect the amc board to make such a

proposal at any time soon

that's it

so that's completely true that's what i

was posting out about the people reading

the ak filing but i think there's one

misconception that adam aaron can just

dump 4.5 billion shares on the market

the only authorized shares out of the

treasury right now were a billion which

the 516.8 million were just issued as a

dividend so the remainder is all they

have access to at the moment i think

they would have to have another vote to

authorize more shares out of the

treasury no not at all

nope nope zero what he's saying doesn't

even make sense he said dilute to a cent

if there's only five billion shares even

to be released let alone it really only

being one billion right now at five

billion i'm pretty sure you would divide

by ten you wouldn't get one since

one thing everybody keep forgetting

dilution rates

those additional apes shares they have

their own votes they're not you're not

diluting the vote those are additional

shares are going to be issued they're

not taking 500 apes as a stand right now

and delete them into 600 or 700 million

there's additional shares that are being

added and those will come with their own

vote so right now you have 500 million

amc you have an ape if they dilute

tomorrow let's say they get 100 more ape

meaning they'll be 600 there'll be 600

million eight votes each vote is equal

the same so now you have left 1.1

billion votes

no don't mix them up no one's

disagreeing with that the vote is not

deluded one vote is one vote there's a

bigger voting pool

i don't want to speak for me kevin but i

believe his entire point in this is that

financially one can be deluded and then

if you're throwing the hail mary of it

getting converted back into the rei like

the original most likely that will never

be proposed even if the people want it

because why would the board ever offer

that so but even let's say meet kevin

and i are both completely 100 wrong on

our thesis of amc on a relative basis

being a better bet than ape if we're

completely wrong

what's the issue of just going all in on

amc like what is lost in this scenario

if we are it's bad advice

it is

it is bad advice and if you don't mind i

i had my hand up i don't know if you had

your hand up but uh me kevin

uh you addressed the conditions um and

the reason for one of those conditions

and i'm not saying that this is the

entire reason but that board uh

decision

being a part of that condition acts as a

sentinel set excuse me a sentinel

to uh

prevent a hostile takeover right if ape

goes to the moon and we dump on the

shorts or the the market makers on ape

and they're left holding the bag then

the market makers can't a vote

to convert ape over to amc and take it

over unless the board approves it so

that's part of the reason why you have

to have that condition in place

and i just want to say you went from

asking a question

to now you just said you gave advice

all right i'm gonna just jump in then

and reply a little bit so uh first of

all

look here's the thing the vote this this

idea that oh but we're not diluting the

vote does not matter because what we

want to vote on if you are an ape

shareholder is conversion that's what

you want to vote on now whether or not

the condition exists to prevent a

hostile takeover doesn't matter the

point is that it exists and because the

condition exists that is up to the amc

board who has a fiduciary obligation to

the amc shareholders not to ape

shareholders the amc board would be

moronic to accept the dilution of eight

and this is why when ape goes to

worthless whatever number that might be

uh in the event that it does then amc

absolutely wouldn't take over that

dilution because they would be hurting

amc shareholders now this argument that

oh but hey you know they can't even do

the 5 billion they've only authorized 1

billion this is true in fact i can read

you the exact line it says the amc board

currently has no plan or attention

calendar years 2022 or 3 to authorize

more than this initial 1 billion amount

however the amc board of directors may

authorize additional units at any time

at its sole discretion including your

2022 or a 2023 if it deems as such an

issuance in the uh in amc's best

interests so in other words they can do

whatever they want so they have complete

control over ape ape is nothing more

than a meme token they're using to try

to get out of debt they have two ways to

get rid of this five billion dollars rip

off people buying the stupid ape stock

which is absolutely dumb to be buying

i'm sorry i'm just being blunt that's

what i feel unless somebody can give me

facts as to why this is wrong then

that's fine i'll gladly look at them and

i've been doing that all day long then i

believe that i don't think anyone can

really quit kevin i don't think anyone

can give you facts until we see price

action right so if it runs to 20

tomorrow then we'll give you the fact

that you were wrong because people could

have

you know quadrupled their money right no

but

here's the thing price action is

different from fundamental i would love

for ape to run to 20 tomorrow because

what's going to happen is adam aaron is

going to do the smart thing and issue

those 500 million shares and they'll

probably authorize even more and issue

those and they will rob whoever is quote

unquote diamond handing ape they're

literally going to take money from

whoever's buying ape is going to go pay

down the debt that's all they're doing

how long does it how long does it take

to approve

so here's here's my question is

is there a demand for institutions and

short sellers to have ape on their books

oh gosh absolutely i mean if i could

short ape i would short it it's a scam

you shouldn't touch ape if you are an

ape you should buy amc not ape ape is

literally preying on retail investors

assuming they're stupid

i'm sorry i've got to say something here

look

the the whole the whole messed up thing

behind this is they put that foot out

before ape dropped nobody in their right

mind is going to sell ape when it drops

because we're all sitting here waiting

to see the shorts get discovered okay

i mean here here's the thing

even even if it comes out tomorrow that

ape is 20 short it doesn't matter if

people find out that it's basically uh a

bad investment that so what's the fund

because it'll go down the shorts will

win what's the point of selling you

but the point of selling is the thing's

gonna go down i mean there's no

fundamental under ape the only way to

value you

the board proposes hold on guys yeah

stop interrupting each other like just

let people finish your sentences what i

would say is

say you're telling people it's it's dumb

to buy ape and you should go on amc what

happens three months from now when the

board's like oh hey by the way we want

to convert all the ape that we've put

out into the market so far and you were

buying an ape at six dollars instead of

amc at 10.

well then it depends on the conversion

price right if you have a one-to-one

conversion then what you're referring to

is an arbitrage and the reason you're

seeing that arbitrage difference right

now the reason one's trading for six and

one is trading for ten is because of the

uncertainty that the board has literally

no obligation to actually

authorize or even propose that vote they

don't have to do that and so yes that

could happen and in that case best case

scenario but you have to remember you're

taking on a massive amount of risk

it's like arbitrage but let's be honest

it is definitely not arbitrage you

cannot have arbitrage in two different

tickers

well sure you can because you're playing

the fact that one is going to convert

into the other no arbitrage is about me

taking one security and going somewhere

else because i know that security is

worth more

so if i have an amc and i go buy an ape

that is not arbitrage they are not the

same

by today's charts i i mean to me this is

now where you are we're arguing about

semantics maybe maybe you're right but

here's where i disagree look if i buy

activision blizzard at you know 50 bucks

because i think it's going to be

acquired for 94. there's an arbitrage

there the difference is the risk right

if it's trading for 50 that means the

market is saying this is risky it might

not actually go through at 94 bucks the

same thing as buying twitter at 39 it

might not go through at 54.20 it's the

same thing as why people are buying ape

people are buying ape because they think

it will be worth one share of amc which

today trades higher that's my definition

of arbitrage we we're we're on the same

page in terms of what's going on i

believe if you have a different

definition that's fine that's not the

way i mean there's only one definition

okay listen

you're taking the same security and

you're selling it it could be the same

product or anything in this case ape is

not amc even though they're worth the

same okay so i i do feel like you

completely ignored what i just stated in

instead came back at me with your

definition again i'm not here to argue

about this kind of nonsense i'm here to

provide no no you were given a opinion

you're interrupting me again

if you interrupt me again

okay listen i'm not here

to upset anyone i'm here to provide a

red flag if you go to the faq it's very

simple you can go to faq number seven

how many amc preferred equity units are

there and if you go to faq number three

you will see exactly what the board

condition is if you believe that the

board will actually authorize the tr the

convertibility then great buy ape if you

think there's too much risk that that

convertibility won't happen well then

don't buy ape just buy amc but here's

the thing amc fell for two reasons today

one the smaller one potentially the sin

of world bankruptcy okay big deal but

number two the market actually believes

that amc was diluted it wasn't and

that's the beautiful thing here because

when ape potentially goes to a dollar or

to zero or whatever

and it never actually dilutes amc you

have a potential catalyst for amc to

actually jump right back to 20 and

beyond

okay kevin

here there's a problem with your

argument though i mean there's a lot of

problems but i said something before and

you said that it didn't matter but now

you're arguing you're creating an

argument where it matters very much

you're saying uh

maybe i am dumb because i i'll admit

that i don't understand everything that

you're saying but

i did understand one thing that you said

for sure and it's that you want

you you seem to imply that there's a

desire for

uh convertibility and eight is that not

correct oh absolutely because that is

what you own if you don't own

then you have nothing

thank you i just want to make sure i

have that clear before i proceed so

that's where the problem is when i was

speaking about the condition where it

requires

uh the board to approve convertibility

there's a case in which you do not want

conversion

like i was saying if eight an ape only

goes to the moon right stickers to a

thousand dollars per share

all of that

ape shareholders

dump their ape on the market makers and

hedge funds

leaving them holding the bag

right

so now all the ape shareholders are the

market makers and hedge funds have been

been trying to destroy amc uh the us the

apes

we're free we made our money we're done

amc does not want those headphones and

shorts to be able to convert

that ape equity back into amc and then

vote the board out which is why the

board has to have that condition in

place it matters very much

in that case

and then in the other case

convertibility is not a problem because

the shareholder base is mostly us and

we're not going to vote in a bad way for

amc so in either either case they can

play out that

role is good for amz and the

convertibility exists

uh if they need it and it does not exist

if they do not need it here's here's

another scenario i want you to kind of

mull over kevin if if you've got a

minute when you're off or whatever

say they issue ape they pay off a bunch

of stock we're deluded the board does

vote

to convert ape into common stock

now the debts paid off the common stock

is back

amc rolls into 2023

with a good movie lineup the new branded

credit card the retail popcorn so now

they're debt free pulling another say

1.5 billion dollars in and adam aaron

goes oh you know what let's buy back

some common stock

in that scenario if they raise money

successfully and they make amc better

why in the world would you ever want to

dilute it

it doesn't it just business-wise it does

not make sense to literally ever bring

it back you want really quick i wanted

to ask me kevin if he thinks it's

bizarre then and and dumb or idiotic

that an insider actually bought several

shares of ape today i think 25 000

shares of of ape today as well uh an amc

insider and really quick before you

answer that if you see laid back

requesting i can't see requests still

um spence i would like to have him up he

would like to add to the conversation

here so i can't see him

but kevin if you want to if you don't

mind uh

responding to you know the fact that an

insider did buy

ape today

i would appreciate it so i wrote down

these questions i'm going to go through

these and then then i have to run after

i answer these uh because i have a date

night in four minutes and i still have

to shower but i'm gonna i'll hurry okay

so uh number one so first of all say ape

goes to a thousand okay so first of all

i don't think you are but anybody who

thinks ape is going to a thousand is

smoking crack because here's the reality

at 15 this thing starts getting diluted

immediately because that's what amc

wants to do amc wants to dilute this to

raise cash and pay off the debt that

brings up the second question that came

up what if as spence says what if this

goes successfully great then wonderful

amc pays off its debt and then it can

actually start paying dividends now matt

has a good point why would they bring in

the dilution they don't have to but even

if they do out of goodwill hey now

they're debt free and they'd have no

chance of bankruptcy the thing's in a

much better place so either way it's

just win win win all around if it goes

well so you actually do want ape to go

up and you do want the dilution to

happen because it's good ultimately for

amc the problem is you've got this huge

risk to the downside uh and so now this

question about what about this 175

thousand dollar

100 i just did some quick math somewhere

around 175 000

potential purchase from an ape insider

so i i don't know i don't know who

bought it or what uh what it what the

transaction details are or whatever but

uh here's the thing my if i'm on the

board of amc i'm thinking myself all

right we gotta sell it we gotta make it

feel like we are the retail cheerleaders

send adam aaron out there and make sure

he's pounding his fist about how

terrible it is we're getting halted on a

on on ape and on amc make sure to go

and make everybody feel like we're out

there for retail because that's going to

get them to buy ape and then as soon as

ape gets any kind of stability in the

market we're going to start dumping

shares and paying off our debt because

that's our duty to not just our uh our

shareholders at amc but you have to

remember they employ over 30 000 people

30 000 people rely on amc for their

livelihood it is their duty not to go

bankrupt and so i think that's what's

happening here is this is a big kind of

marketing pitch right here and quite

frankly they could get away with it and

i think it's great for amc that's why

kevin

kevin i would really appreciate it i

know you got to run and i know you have

a date night so i don't want to hold you

up but i appreciate you coming in and

having a live commentary like this it's

really commendable

especially if you know you consider

yourself a politician which i think

you're a youtuber first but most

politicians don't do

live conversations like this and put

themselves on the spot so i just want to

say i appreciate it i value your time

and if you want to come back when you

have more time and answer people's

questions i know there's like 30

requests and we can't even i can't even

see them on my end but i know people

have a lot of a lot of things to ask and

discuss with you so you're always

welcome to come back on and we can

hopefully do this again well thank you

so much and yeah i don't consider myself

a politician i ran as not a politician

honestly i hate politics and uh that's

why i voted for you because you're not a

politician