How to Survive the Global Currency Reset w/ Clive Thompson

Welcome, welcome, welcome. In honor of

our guest today, I will say hello, dear

friends. Keith, how are you today?

>> Today's the best day of my life. Ben,

how you doing?

>> Me, too. We have an awesome guest here

who I've watched so many of his videos,

so I'm so excited to pick his brain in

person. So, Keith, I'll let you

introduce our awesome guest.

>> Yeah. Well, we have Clive Thompson with

us. Uh, Clive, I um I was checking some

of the data in my YouTube and I was

looking at who my audience watches and

you're always one of the top people in

there. So, it's awesome to have you

here. I think a lot of people are going

to be excited for this conversation.

But, um, if you will tell people just a

brief intro to your background.

>> Uh, sure. So, I worked in wealth

management for 47 years in Switzerland

mostly. uh retired three years ago. Uh

never ever planned to be on YouTube. It

wasn't even it wasn't even a remote

dream. Uh so that kind of happened by

accident. Um and yeah, here I am on

YouTube talking about uh investments,

gold, silver, bitcoin, property, uh

anything you like.

>> So cool. So cool. What was it that made

you decide to get on YouTube?

Um I I wrote a lot I well I was a

regular writer on LinkedIn. I mean when

I the funny thing was when I was working

I was never on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is

obviously meant for people who are

looking for jobs. But when I retired I

thought maybe it's a good idea to go on

the board of directors of some big

companies and be a non-executive

director because you know nice easy way

to get paid a lot of money for doing

nothing. [laughter] Um I kind of fancy

that. So I thought well I'm not going to

get get that type of role unless I do a

LinkedIn profile. So I did a LinkedIn

profile and then I saw that people were

writing articles on LinkedIn. I thought

well I can write too. So I wrote I wrote

a lot of articles and my my numbers went

from zero to 10,000 in almost no time at

all in terms of followers and then

someone saw an article of mine about the

Federal Reserve being insolvent invited

me on their channel. Uh we end up

talking not so much about the Federal

Reserve but about the what's called the

global currency reset which was the

words I used. He'd never heard those

words before. That video went viral. It

got 600,000 views um for a channel which

is normally getting 10,000 views. So I

got invited onto a lot of other people's

channels and after a couple of years of

being invited I thought well perhaps I

should just try it myself and see how it

works.

>> Love that. I I yeah I set up the you

YouTube channel Clive Thompson uh about

six no nine months ago I'd say and I've

gone to 100,000 views 100,000

subscribers now.

>> That's remarkable. Amazing. That's so

good to see. And I love when diverse

perspectives come to to YouTube because

I've been making YouTube content for

nearly a decade. So I've loved the

recent push for like authenticity,

different perspectives. And I think that

both you and Keith fall into that

perspective of not overly done things,

just good information and honest

perspectives. And so I'm really glad to

have you on YouTube and super amped to

have you here today. Keith, where do you

think we should start with this one?

>> I think one of the easiest ways to start

this off is to just play a quick clip

from what uh Jerome Powell said at the

FOMC meeting yesterday.

>> Yeah, that made me laugh. Go ahead.

>> Always does. [laughter]

significant price increases we've seen

for precious metals.

>> Don't don't take much message

macroeconomically. Um the argument can

be made it's you know that we're losing

credibility or something. It's simply

not the case. If you look if you look at

where inflation expectations are our

credibility is right where it needs to

be. So we look at those things. We don't

we don't get spun up over particular

asset price changes. Although we do we

do monitor them of course.

What are your initial reactions to that

class?

>> Well, you know, it's the exact opposite

words of Alan Greenspan who looked at

gold and said, "If the gold price is up,

we're in trouble. We got to do something

about it. If it's down, everything's

hunky dory." Um, you know, he's

basically saying, um, I don't want to

put words in his mouth that he didn't

actually say, but he he might as well

have stuck two fingers up at the

journalist.

you know, how how could a guy how could

the the head of the Federal Reserve say

we don't care about the gold price? I

mean, it it's it's sending a signal,

isn't it?

>> Yeah. It's it's almost hard to take

anything that is said in those meetings

with any degree of like validity because

it's it's almost like there's like

paradox after paradox. It doesn't really

make much sense. But, uh, Keith, did you

have any other clips that you wanted to

show?

Um, I don't know if I have a clip for

this one, but there was also a moment

where he was being asked about the fall

of the dollar and how maybe that might

be uh perceived by the Fed and he kind

of avoided it. He was like, "That's the

Treasury's job and things of that." What

do you think of that, Clive?

>> Well, look, the Federal Reserve makes

dollars. You know, if you get a bank

note, it's got obviously is is written

made by the Federal Reserve or uh

something like that on it. How can he

not care about the value of the dollar?

It makes no sense at all. I mean, the

the the Federal Reserve's job I know

that officially it's to get keep

inflation down in full employment. But

if you are if you are the printer of the

country's currency, you've got to care

about what it's worth. Not say I don't

care. It doesn't matter. It's

irrelevant. It's not our What do you

say? It's not our job. I think he said

not our job or something like that. It's

the Treasury's job.

>> Definitely. Yeah. And you've made a

video about the potential revaluing of

the price of gold and the price target

that you had put in your video I think

was $15,000.

And you'd said the two biggest signs

would be rapidly rising gold prices and

a declining dollar which are things that

I think that were at least at the

beginning of experiencing for sure.

>> So yeah, I mean what this was a video I

did maybe five or six months ago. Yes.

where I said at some point uh we'll know

the we're potentially getting towards

the endgame when you start to see asset

prices in particular gold rising

rapidly. Um, and the reason I put a

$15,000 price on gold was uh not because

I think we climbed to it, but rather I

think this the the price of 15,000 will

be engineered and that's my number and I

know a lot of people want a much higher

number, but my number it'll be

engineered by the Treasury because by

revaluing their gold reserves at that

kind of level uh and doing a bit of uh

financial jigory pokery which I

explained in the video, they will be

able to effectively repay several

trillion dollars of US debt, kicking the

can down the road for a couple of years.

In other words, uh allowing the the

system that we know it to last a little

bit longer and then of course in a

couple of years they could do the same

trick again. But I won't go into the

details of how it works, but basically

if you take the gold, revalue it, you

could actually reduce your debt and keep

the gold.

>> And C could you explain a little bit for

people who would have no idea how that

could possibly happen?

>> Sure. Uh I will do. So the way that

would happen um it all dates back to the

1934

when the US Treasury effectively nabbed

all the gold which was owned by the

Federal Reserve. uh they passed a a law

basically saying the uh Federal Reserve

will sell all its gold to the Treasury

at $2067

$20 67 an ounce and in exchange the

Federal Reserve will get what's called

gold notes which are not actually

redeemable in gold ever they're

redeemable in paper that's it and and at

the face value now the very next day I

think it was uh after the Fed had sold

their gold to the Treasury, perhaps

rather unwillingly, uh the Treasury

decided to revalue gold at $35 an ounce,

creating a massive profit for the

Treasury at the expense of the Federal

Reserve and much to the annoyance of all

the Americans who'd handed in their gold

at $20 an ounce when they could have had

$35 if they'd been allowed to hang on to

it for another year. Um, so that's sort

of the backdrop. So, as we stand today,

the Federal Reserve has got these gold

notes, which I think is about 12

billion at the official price now $422.

I mean, $13 billion, but it's it's

something like that. Now, the treas

that's the Federal Reserve, the Treasury

has got the gold uh which would be worth

several trillion dollars at 15,000. I

haven't got the figure, but let's call

it three trillion for example. I think

that's roughly the figure. What the

Federal Reserve now what the what the

Treasury now needs to do is redeem those

gold notes from the Federal Reserve at

face value. Give the give the Federal

Reserve their 12 uh billion dollars back

in cash.

Then they will sell the gold that they

have to the Federal Reserve for $3

trillion. They'll get $3 trillion of

cash in hand, but they don't earn the

gold. And then they'll immediately buy

back the gold with new gold notes from

the from the Federal Reserve. So they'll

get the gold back and they'll have

issued in exchange those gold notes

which now become the property of the

Federal Reserve. Now the beauty of the

gold notes is that they are perpetual.

They're never redeemable and they bear

no interest and they're not part of the

national debt.

So suddenly they got the US government's

got the treasury's got three trillion in

hand which can use to reduce the

national debt to some extent not big

reductions 10% reduction not even 10%

but it would help. Uh they've got this

they reduce national debt and they've

kept their gold and the only uh

effectively loser if you like in the

game is the Federal Reserve who gets a

lot of paper but what does it matter?

They had paper before they got paper

afterwards. Where does the money come

from to pay for the uh pay pay the

treasury for the gold that the Fed

bought? They just print it.

>> Keep going.

>> Nothing wrong with that. They're print,

you know, they've been printing for

years. It's never done any harm. Let let

them carry on [laughter] printing.

>> It seems to work.

>> Yeah. And Clive, you're uh based in

Switzerland. Is that correct?

>> That's correct. Yes.

>> Okay. And did you spend any time in the

United States working in finance or or

kind of yeah how did that evolve or how

did you um end up working your way into

the industry that you're in now or that

you were in? Well, the closest I ever

got to the United States was the the

Cayman Islands uh Grand Cayman in fact

um where my boss had about 25 banks in

his drawer. Um, you know, one one of the

things everyone used to laugh about u

inside the Cayman Islands, they always

used to say the Cayman Islands has got

more Treasury bonds than any other

country in the world or and Euro bonds

and and there's more banks than there

are people in the in the islands. But of

course, what they didn't realize that

most of these banks were just name

plates on the door. Uh, and what would

happen, big banks from around the world,

and I'm talking very large, well-known

banks, would have a branch in the Cayman

Islands, which is basically a name plate

on the door and a a file in your drawer.

Uh, and what would happen once a month,

these banks would send to the Cayman

Islands the balance sheet for their

Cayman Islands subsidiary. So, the

people in the Cayman Islands did nothing

other than shadow accounting of what

what of what the balance sheet said. But

the these banks didn't really at the

time have any physical staff in the

Caymans. So, uh that was the closest I

came to the United States.

That's actually uh an awesome

way to to hear about that because the

real reason that I've been that I wanted

to ask that was because I'm trying to

think about um there's different markets

when it comes to gold and silver, right?

And right now uh we're seeing a little

bit of dislocation between the different

markets. Um could you talk a little bit

about maybe uh if you have any

experience with the futures market and

like how some of that stuff works and

how there's a difference in different

markets in the world and also in

different types of markets for the

metals and like what's happening with

that.

>> Yeah. So let's just start by talking

about uh a standard futures market like

COMX. Um the way the way that works for

the bullion banks is they can sell gold

for a forward date and in general it

trades in what's called contango. Now

contango means that the futures price in

general is higher than the spot price.

So by selling selling gold for let's say

March this year, they'll get a higher

price normally than the price of spot

gold. All they have to do is wait until

we get to March and then they buy back

the gold at spot and sell

at the future again. So it they

constantly rolling forward and as they

roll forward they make a an ongoing

profit and the profit is the difference

between the futures price which is

higher and the spot price where they buy

it back. So they short the long and as

it gets to maturity they close their

future buying it back and sell another

future going another three months

forward and they can keep doing that and

infinitum uh and make an almost well it

is it is in normal times a guaranteed

profit where that would run into

difficulty would be if we go into what's

called backquidation which is the

opposite of contango and backquidation

is when the spot price that they have to

buy back these futures contracts

or buy back the when it arrives to

maturity is higher than the futures

price. Now, at that point, they're

starting to make a a loss because

they're they're buying something for

more than they paid for it, which is

obviously going to cause them losses.

And uh that that's how a normal futures

market where we where we've got to now

is a dislocation between the various

markets. uh you know, if you go into a

coin shop and try and buy uh some gold

today, they'll be quoting you

a a much higher price over the gold

price than they usually do. And if you

try to sell it, they'll be quoting you a

much lower price than the usual gold

price than they usually do because the

gold dealers literally do not know where

the price is going to be tomorrow. It

might be up 5%, it might be up 10%, it

might be down 10% and they have to

protect themselves. So, we've got

already got this dislocation going on um

between uh the physical market on on the

street. I mean, if I want to go and buy

gold, I'm not going to get it for the

5,000 something that you see on the

screen today. I'm going to have to pay a

lot more than that. Um now, silver has

has gone into a much more extreme

situation where we've got the price of

silver in Shanghai uh trading at an

absolutely massive premium over the

price in COX. And the reason for that

seems to be that the usual shipping of

silver to China uh from America to China

when when there's a dislocation the

price isn't happening. Now we don't know

the reason it's not happening. Maybe the

usual bullion banks who would make do

that arbitrage can't lay their hands on

the silver in New York for some reason

or maybe the shipping companies which

would ship it are all booked up. So I

don't know the reason but we have now

effectively three prices in the or four

prices in the world. The dealer price is

where they buy dealer prices they sell

the COX price and then the Shanghai

price. It's all over the place.

>> Thank you for explaining that. Someone

asked in the chat too. They said uh ask

Clive about uh how does shorting work?

And you know, we've seen a lot of uh

rumors about potentially banks shorting

silver and gold and then there was a

rumor that some bank some big bank like

blew up and then the Fed tried to save

them in the United States. Did you hear

anything about that? And then could you

briefly explain a little bit of how

shorting works?

>> Yes. So the the the story about a big

bank um blowing up was a a lie by an

artificial intelligence robot who was

producing videos for the purpose of

views. Um, if you read the small print

under that video, uh, and very small

print and hidden away where nobody would

see it, uh, you would have discovered

that they do say this is fiction.

But they they told the story as if it

was fact. And unfortunately for uh well

unfortunately many people who who don't

know how to read repeated the story as

if it was fact because they think that

everything they hear for a you know

there's a I mean what was just

unbelievable that you got a robot saying

I've been following the price of gold

for 25 years or something like that know

a robot this is like an AI [laughter] AI

robot says he's been following for 25

years and it just makes no sense. And so

everything in that story about a big

bank blowing up was complete rubbish. Um

but the the worst part of it was uh I

saw at least one newspaper grabbed that

story and printed as it was a Swiss

newspaper funny enough uh printed as if

it was fact

>> and they they did say you know in the

small print uh

>> these are allegations but

>> yeah the damage is done.

>> Yeah I mean that was really bad. So,

what what is shorting? And so, this bank

is not short. I mean, maybe they've got

a little bit of short, but they they

manage their risks very well. Um, I

won't say the name of the bank because I

don't want to

throw any petrol on the fire. Um, but

when a bank goes short, they're

basically doing what I say. They are

selling the future contract expecting to

make a profit by the time it reaches

maturity because the price goes down.

The future price is generally higher

than the spot price. Uh, and it's a kind

of way of making free money until you

have to buy it back for more than you

sold it for and then you got a problem.

Now, generally to protect themselves,

they keep gold or silver somewhere, but

that gold or silver might not be in the

right shape or form for good delivery.

So

from a financial point of view, they're

probably if they're going short here,

they're short here, they're long over

here, but it might not be possible to

deliver this one into that one because

you've got to invested.

It's got to be a lot of things got to be

just right. It's got to be exactly the

right shape and size. So if their gold

is not in the right place

or not in the right shape

in normal times the option would be to

move one asset into the other. But if

things if the markets are in a disrupted

state, it might not be possible to do

that because you might find the smelters

can't change the size of your bar to an

acceptable size bar. And therefore,

you're stuck with a a panic situation

where you can't as you haven't got

anything which is allowed to be

delivered even though you've got the

same thing. It's the but it's in the

wrong it's the wrong wrong weight. You

have to now buy at market irrespective

of the price to cover your short.

>> Fascinating. Totally. And you know, I

feel like people want to believe that

story, right? They they want to hear

that there's some big bank in the

markets manipulating prices and keeping

them from getting rich, quite frankly.

Um, and there have been some times in

the past where there was an official

story. I believe it was the Hunt

Brothers in the 80s or something like

that. Uh, are you familiar with that

story at all? And does that

>> Sure. Yeah, I've read the book. I've

read the book Silver Bulls, which was

about the Hunt brothers and how they got

screwed over by Comoxen uh and the

authorities. Uh but the the gist of it

was they were trying to corner the

market. When you corner the market, you

try to buy up everything in the market

so that those who want it can't get it

and therefore those who want it have to

pay through the nose to get it. So they

were they were trying to buy up all the

silver and to do that they uh took on uh

they they were buying a lot of physical

silver but they also were buying futures

contracts on comx.

The trouble was the shorts and at the

time silver ran from about a dollar to

$50 like so we're talking about 50

times. So if you if you imagine someone

was shorted a dollar or $2 and now

they're having to buy it back at $50.

They were in in uh extreme loss

positions and all these big exchanges

they they love the shorts but the shorts

are what makes the market. I mean having

someone go and buy buy silver they've

got to have someone to buy it from and

the only place you can buy it from is is

someone who's shorting it by selling it.

Uh so the shorts make the liquidity in

the market. So the the exchanges love

the shorts. So when things go wrong,

they're more likely to protect the

shorts than they are the longs. And

that's exactly what happened in the Hunt

brothers. The the they changed the

rules. I think they brought in something

called silver rule number seven. Uh but

the gist of the changes in rules were

one the hunts were prevented from using

borrowed money to buy more silver and

secondly the number of contracts which

they were allowed to own when they

rolled their positions was limited to a

certain number of contracts. So let's

say previously that you could buy an

unlimited number of contracts. Now they

said sorry you can't buy more than a 100

or a thousand contracts or whatever it

was. So suddenly the hunts found

themselves with let's say they had 5,000

contracts maturing but they're only

allowed to buy a thousand on the on the

next series. They were had no other

choice than to liquidate their contracts

at any price because they weren't

allowed to turn into real silver because

that would have meant borrowing money

and they couldn't roll it into the next

future state which was the original plan

because that wasn't allowed by the rules

of comx. So basically they were screwed

over and had to were forced to sell

which crashed the price of silver uh and

effectively ended up making them

bankrupt.

>> Totally. Totally. Uh Ben, did you have

something?

>> Yeah, there's a question from the chat

because with all this discussion,

there's more and more people that are

interested in buying precious metals

like gold and then also silver and then

copper. I'm hearing questions about as

well in the chat. As an individual,

where do you recommend buying metals?

like where should an individual go to

buy gold? Is there is there a right way?

Is there a wrong way?

>> Well, if let's let's start with silver

because I think there's a bit of an

opportunity for those who want to get

silver at the moment. Um there are many

precious metal dealers who have been

overwhelmed with sell orders and the ex

the refineries are backed up. So they

can't they're not in a position to lay

off their risk with the refineries by

passing on the silver they bought to the

refineries. So that literally when

people are walking in the shop now,

they're saying, "We'll give you, you

want to sell some silver, we'll give you

$20 below, you know, massive." So the

opportunity here is to ring around and

see if they'll let you take some of that

off their hands at maybe $6 below the

silver price or $10 below the silver

price. I think they in many cases they'd

be very very happy to get rid of it so

they could accommodate all the people

coming in the door because they've only

got so much money. You know, if you've

only got a million dollars, once you

bought a million dollars of silver,

unless you can pass that on to the

refinery, you're stuck. You can't buy

anymore. You've got no money. So, to

make money, you've got to unload some of

that silver. The only way they can

unload it is by selling it below spot.

So, I think if you try your luck on

silver, you could ring around some uh

silver shops and see if any of them will

sell you at a at at a decent discount.

And I'll bet you the answer is yes. I

mean, I've heard I've heard some of them

say yes. So, I'll bet you the answer is

yes. Um, and you might be able to pick

it up below spot at the moment. Uh, but

by the same token, there'll be many

silver dealers who will want to charge

you $20 more than spot because they've

got the their inventory is going the

other way and they're running out of it.

It just depends on the country, the

town, the village, the sentiment. You

know, things are all over the place at

the moment. Um, on gold, I think it's

going to be a lot closer to the gold

price whether you're a buyer or a

seller. uh because it's uh there doesn't

seem to be any particular problem in the

gold market at the moment other than uh

everybody has suddenly decided uh uh and

for good reason that they better get

some while they still can get some. Uh I

think what's going on with the gold

market now is it's a different schedule

of fish from the silver market. But

what's going on is up until

a couple of years ago, people kind of

saw gold as a steady as you go, an

inflation hedge asset. If I want to

inflation,

I can buy some gold. It won't pay me any

dividends. It won't pay me any interest,

but probably in 10 years time, it will

still buy me what I what I the same as I

paid for it now. That's how it was

viewed. But that that attitude is

changing now because people can see that

things are going potentially wrong with

the levels of government debt and

geopolitics and they're starting to say

I don't know what's coming but I think I

don't really care about inflation. I'm

not looking at inflation and gold. I

think I get I'll get some gold now

because I don't know what's coming and

that I'm gonna frontr run frontr run

what might happen next week, next month,

next year and I'd rather be ahead of the

curve and get it while I still can and

get it before everybody else because

everybody else realizes what I've

realized that's what they're thinking.

They they've realized that this

government debt is unsustainable. It's

something's going to happen. Uh and they

say, "Well, the rest of the world hasn't

worked it up to it, but I've worked up

to it. I better get my gold while while

I still can before everybody else wakes

up because it's going to be a lot

higher. So that's basically I think

what's happening. People are front

running it and it's not just

individuals. It will be central banks as

well. Um although it's very hard to get

the evidence for that because the

statistics and the reporting by central

banks is very long delayed by the bank

central banks themselves and there's

lots of central banks who don't report

at all.

Um, quick note on that. I'll share a

tweet that I saw from the Coobasi

letter. I believe it was earlier today.

Um, breaking gold has officially

overtaken US treasuries in central bank

FX reserves for the first time in at

least 20 years. Uh, so essentially the

global hold global gold holdings uh are

at 5 trillion surpassing the foreign

official treasury holdings of 3.9

trillion. uh with gold holdings have

tripled since Q4 2019.

So um even with you know any potential

delays right that we may be seeing and

how central banks are acquiring and

whatnot with with gold one thing for

sure that we can see is that well the

amount of gold that they're holding

versus FX reserves is obviously going up

versus US treasuries in their FX

reserves. And then also in general,

we've seen a huge uptick in the amount

of central bank buying, right? Buying

even over the past year where prices

have almost doubled before even all of

uh the super crazy man that we're just

now starting to step into. Um so I just

wanted to point that out a bit.

Any initial thoughts on that?

>> Yeah. Well, you know, um the the Chinese

central bank is in there every month

buying a little bit of gold. I mean, I

won't say it's huge amounts, but uh

they're a steady buyer. Uh they don't

care about the price. Um the gold uh in

the Chinese central bank reserves uh

foreign exchange reserves is rising as a

percentage of their overall holdings

partly because they're buying more and

partly because the price is going up. Uh

so what they're doing is a I think it's

um I haven't got the figures in front of

me but a year or two ago I think it was

like 3% of the reserves and I think it's

probably about 6% now. I that's not a

precise figure but it's certainly a lot

more when I last looked. So I think

what's going on with the with the

Chinese, they're allowing the

generalized rise in the gold price plus

their purchases to constitute a larger

percentage of their reserves whilst at

the same time not making a great deal of

effort to increase their holdings of

treasuries.

Fair enough. Fair enough. And then one

of the things that people are thinking

about as far as how to get involved in

all of this is uh paper versus the

actual physical metals. That's a huge

question that I've been seeing coming

up. And can you describe like the

difference between like paper having

metals on paper versus having it

physically and how you look at that as

an investor?

Well, first of all, a lot of the people

I talked to have got uh sufficiently

large amounts of money that they

couldn't possibly keep the metal at home

or shouldn't keep it at home. We're

talking about many millions in many

cases. Um so you own, you know, for for

your parachute, for your emergency

money, your lifeboat, you only need a

certain amount where you can get your

hands on it quickly and easily. uh that

could be in your home, buried in your

garden or uh a very safe location

somewhere where you can get to quickly.

Um for the rest uh you need it locked up

if if it's physical need it locked up in

a very safe place underground in a a

strong, you know, a very strong vated

bank. Um but that type of gold is the

type of gold you should never be

planning to sell. You should be planning

to keep it forever. pass it down the

generations just like a painting or a

work of art or uh some some uh the

family castle. Those are the things you

the gold physical is what you don't sell

you hang on to ever forever. If you plan

to sell it,

you shouldn't be buying physical.

Cuz if you have a plan, I I'm buying it

today and it'll be higher tomorrow. I'm

going to sell it tomorrow. Then you want

to be buying the paper. Uh of course

you're you're not it's not real gold.

Okay? It's not a parachute. It's not a

lifeboat. It won't say if there's a

panic, it won't save you because you

might have all kinds of difficulty. But

all these exchange traded funds have

what's called force measure clauses

under which if it's not their fault for

whatever reason, they don't have to give

you the gold back. So, you know, you can

imagine in certain types of situations

uh and and those situations, by the way,

are outlined in the prospectes of all

these ETFs. I know there's all kinds of

things, you know, like war, civil

unrest, uh transport difficulties,

supply chains, uh taxes, government

decree, you know, you there's every

everything under the sun you could

possibly think of as an excuse why they

might not give it back to you. Um and of

course, you can only get it back if you

have a certain amount like u a million

dollars or whatever the thing whatever

the cut off point is. uh because you can

change your shares for physical metal if

you qualify in certain ways and a lot of

most people wouldn't qualify. So that's

not really an issue. Um but you you if

you're thinking of buying today and

selling next week or next month or next

year then the paper is the way to go

because when you're buying paper there's

a very narrow sped spread between the

bid and ask. It's like a quarter of a

percent or a tenth of a percent. uh you

pay a very small commission to the bank

or broker when you buy it and sell it.

Um and of course it's nice and

convenient because you with a with a

flick of a a button on your or or your

mouse, you can sell it in a microscond.

It's whereas trying to sell physical

coins,

you'd have to walk to the dealer

somewhere and then he's going to screw

you over on the on the bid and ask price

when you do that. Uh but you know, if

you're buying physical, you shouldn't

care about the price. You should say it

doesn't matter if you pay 20 or 30% more

than the price. That's irrelevant.

That's not, you know, that's neither

here nor there. What you're buying is

you're buying yourself a lifeboat.

You're buying yourself some insurance.

You're buying yourself some protection

if everything else starts to go wrong. I

mean let's let's if you look at the

VHimar inflation in Germany uh

then gold things like negotiable things

like gold became relatively far more

valuable than things which were hard to

negotiate like houses. So, it got to the

point where you could buy a house for

just a couple of gold coins because

people couldn't they they couldn't use

their house to eat, but if they had gold

coins, then they could negotiate those

into other stuff to eat.

>> Very well said.

>> So, so in a in a in a in a disaster

situation, you wouldn't really care

whether you'd overpaid, underpaid, you

don't care. It doesn't matter. You just

have to have it. It's like having your

having your health insurance. it when

you need it, you're really glad you had

it and it doesn't matter it was

expensive or not. You you've got it,

thank God. Uh as opposed to having none.

>> I I think a lot of people where they

really struggle with all these things is

because they haven't experienced it

themselves. They think that these things

just can't happen because they haven't

happened while they were alive. What I

love about a lot of your videos is you

go back throughout history when a lot of

currencies collapsed uh or there was a

reset. Could you walk us through the

concept of the currency reset, how it

happens, why it happens, and when it's

happened in history.

>> Quite often these things have gone quite

slowly, as in the Roman Empire when it

took something like 300 years for the

silver content of the Daenerius to be

debased from 99% to 0% effectively. uh

little by little um those emperors who

debased a little bit too much ended up

with very unhappy armies. Yes. Because

the soldiers became dis disgruntled uh

that their pay was not buying as much

and it's a very dangerous thing to have

unhappy soldiers.

Uh and so many of those emperors met

very sticky and painful ends. I think

more than half of them did.

>> Wow. Um but the the one the the few

which restored um um uh money in a in a

sound way um managed to survive

sometimes 10 or 15 years and die of nice

things like old age. Well I mean I don't

think old age was a thing back then but

you know what I mean it was some disease

or something. Um but uh that was the

Roman Empire. But of course then we've

had situations where the uh money has

basically lost its value almost

overnight like like the former Yugus or

Yugoslavia. Um in in that situation the

the value of currency was h havinging

every day and a half. So literally the

day you get paid every day the day you

got paid you'd have to rush out and buy

anything. Doesn't matter what whether

you needed you bought anything you could

with the money. And if you could lay

your hands on Deutsch marks so much the

better.

So what is the process of how a currency

reset can can happen? Like what are what

are the steps and the warning signs?

>> Well,

the warning that it's coming is when

everybody is rushing to buy anything,

whether it be razor blades or toilet

rolls

or in this case silver and gold.

Um but you know when when people fear

when people are afraid that uh something

is going wrong and this could be a war

it could be civil unrest. It could be

supply chain disruption. It could be a

pandemic. It could be a natural

disaster. You don't know that things can

happen without warning. Uh it could be a

currency crisis. It could be a bond

crisis. Suddenly the bank the the

government can't finance itself and then

the how are they going to spend money?

They can't borrow any money. know

there's all kinds of things go could

happen. We don't and we don't know what

it would be but the warning signs are

usually ahead of head of that in terms

of prices rising and I think the

earliest warning signs are typically

gold and silver. So we are seeing as of

today the earliest warming warning signs

which tells us not that it's tomorrow or

next week or next month or next year. We

don't know that. It could be it could

still be many many years away before we

have a currency reset or it might be

tomorrow. You don't know. It just

depends on what tomorrow's news is. And

that uh nobody can tell you. Uh so I'm

not going to tell you uh a time scale.

But I don't think the currencies we have

on this planet will be here in 10 years.

I think they'll they'll be gone and

replaced by something else. Now I'm

going to give you a couple of scenarios

which have happened around the world and

might happen again. Of course, the one

of the most common scenarios is a

generally rising level of inflation

until you get to a hyperinflation

situation where basically they start

issuing new color notes and with lots of

zeros knocked off. Uh that would be a

very common type of situation and it's

the preferred solution by many

governments to basically inflate their

way out of it because all the other

solutions are very painful or seem to be

very painful at first sight. Uh but

we've seen around the world what's

called the bailin. Uh that's when the uh

anyone who's got money in the bank, I

think Brazil was where this happened, is

forced to lend it to the government on

the government's terms, i.e. a low

interest rate for a number of years with

a promise they'll get it back, but by

the time they get it back, it doesn't

buy anything

because of the inflation. Uh another

another example is the um where they

basically cap you. Uh we saw that in in

Cyprus for example recently a few years

ago. So basically anyone with more than

$100,000 $100,000 euros bad luck. It's

gone. It's now it now belongs to the

National Bank of Greece uh because

otherwise all the banks would have been

bust.

uh we we also uh saw it u in in a

certain sense with the Greek bonds, the

Greek national debts. U I'm personally a

victim of that. Uh now it's not that

it's not that I didn't buy Greek debt

knowing that it was likely to default. I

mean I expected that. Um everybody who

bought Greek debt expected it to fall.

The question was what do you what do you

expect to get back? What I never

expected and what nobody expected was

that the European Union, the ECB would

force the Greeks to change the law. So

the normal rules of parasu which apply

when you bought the bond would no longer

apply. And they put in place a rule

which said anybody who's got 30% i.e. us

can vote what we like. And oh yes, we

vote that we get 100% and everybody

everybody else like Clive Thompson can

go whistle.

>> Wow. So, so you know I'm I'm a you know

I don't I don't care. I'm very

diversified. It's one of many things and

you expect to lose money on some things

but I didn't expect to get lose money

because of unfair behavior by the

central bank. Of course this went to

court and um was heard by the highest

court the European courts because uh the

richest investors wanted compensation

like the hedge funds. Uh and the courts

basically said

uh we realize that the man in the street

has been cheated out of his money, but

saving the European monetary fee system

had a higher priority than saving

Joe Blogs.

>> And when was this again? Did you say

>> this would be 200

11 perhaps?

>> Gotcha. Gotcha.

Incredible. So,

one of the things that you kind of

pointed out, uh, I think requires kind

of everything, uh, hyperinflation you

mentioned. Um,

one of the things that I think is so

fascinating about what's happening right

now regarding the US dollar is that not

only are gold and silver going up, but

all precious metals are going up. Uh can

you talk a little bit about the dynamics

of that or why is it that all of these

different metals tend are almost at

all-time highs now?

>> Well, obviously gold, silver, platinum,

palladium are regarded as the precious

metals uh and outside runner perhaps as

rodium too, but I don't think anyone in

their right mind would buy rodium. Um I

think the price I don't know the price

is probably $50,000 an I have no idea.

So roo you wouldn't be able to find it

if you wanted to. Um so

what what what happens when when you've

got one precious metal rising people say

well perhaps I should earn them all. Now

most people don't. Most people say I'll

I'll stick with gold. Then a much

smaller number say I'll have a bit of

silver as well. And then even smaller

number say I'll have some platinum. And

even tiny amount people say I'll have

palladium. But the fact is the silver

market is a tiny fraction of the gold

market. uh about onetenth of the size

and the platinum market is about

onetenth of the size of the silver

market. So it's getting really really

tiny. So the platinum market is 100th of

the size of gold and a very very tiny

amount of buying will have an upwards

effect on the price. So even though

almost nobody's buying platinum, there's

still one or two people who are buying

it and that's pushing up the price. Um

but you know we have to remember that

silver uh and platinum have have a dual

use unlike gold silver and platinum have

a dual use in industrial demand. I mean

the platinum is used in catalytic

converters and cars and silver is used

in electronics, solar panels, defense um

and uh what's the fourth one?

That's gone.

What are these still the fourth part? Uh

yeah, electronics, defense, I don't

know. But there's a a fourth use of of

silver which is uh uh using up a lot.

>> Understood. There's uh an investor out

there, his name is Chimath Palipatia. Uh

he does a podcast called AllIn and at

the beginning of the year he made a

prediction that he thinks that copper

will be the biggest uh winner of this

year. I'll share a quick uh screenshot

of a a tweet that he put out. As we

predicted in our annual predictions

episode to start the year, uh unless

someone shows up with super conductivity

or carbon nanot tubes, copper is the

only game in town and AI is a huge

demand driver for a very underresourced

material. What are your thoughts on

copper and what that could look like in

the future?

>> Got my little [laughter]

>> Okay, so co copper um you know I I I'm

positive on copper. Uh I'm not sure

we're going to see the sort of

spectacular gains we've seen in gold and

silver, but I do think it should go

higher over the years which follow. Uh

and the reason for that is we have uh

ongoing rollouts of cables, uh data

centers and that sort of thing. uh and

from what I read that those kinds of

things are going to be consuming

incremental copper over and above the

standard use of copper which is always

there when you're building roads or

railways or whatever else. So it it's a

new effectively a new use of copper and

I understand it to be quite large and

therefore the demand for copper should

rise and yeah the price of copper should

rise too but I don't I don't really see

the kind of squeeze we're seeing in

silver and gold at the moment I think

it's a um it's a it's probably in terms

of tons it's probably a bigger market

well it definitely is a bigger market

big time and there are some copper

mountains coming on stream like in

Argentina in the next couple of years

anyway. Uh so the supply probably will

go up. So would would the way the way I

would play this is not really to go buy

copper bars. I mean you need an awful

lot of space to store copper bars. You

you you would want to buy the mining

companies.

You know that there's a number of pure

plays and a number of uh large mining

companies which do multiple things.

>> Got it. I'd love to hear your thoughts,

Clive, on um how you see all of this

trickling down into Bitcoin, if in any

way. Do you see a rotation eventually

happening from people who are rushing to

buy precious metals?

Humans all go for the same thing at the

same time. uh and you it's well

sometimes you go for everything but

there will be times when one asset class

is being chased and the other one kind

of gets pushed to one side. Um and we're

seeing that with Bitcoin at the moment.

It's being pushed to one side, but these

things rotate. Um the there's an awful

lot of people who claim that Bitcoin has

got no use case. I'm I'm sorry for them

that they go public saying that. I think

that's uh extreme ignorance to come out

with a statement like that without even

looking it up and checking. You could

just ask chat GPT for example and you'll

find the answer. I mean it's not like uh

it's hard to find out what the use cases

are. Um and you know but at the end of

the day there's countless people all

around the world who can see a use case

for themselves or a potential use case

for themselves or a parachute depending

which way they look at it. uh you know

ranging from uh people who happen to be

friends with a politician and if that

politician gets sanctioned you find your

accounts blocked. Uh there could be all

kinds of things go wrong. Uh it could be

a battered housewife who can't control

her own finances because of her husband.

Uh you know there there's endless

situations where people would have a

personal reason to have something which

nobody can take off them. not even if

they if they raid their house and search

for their search under their pillow.

So,

um at the moment it's out of favor, but

the the fact is the network of those who

will take the Bitcoin off you for

something is not going to get smaller.

It's you know the the number of people

who would give you something in exchange

for Bitcoin go will go up. I've had one

experience personally where I um there

was a at a railway station where uh it

was in Switzerland where someone came up

to me and said, "I heard you talk

English. Um listen, I I really have to

buy a train ticket, but I've had my

wallet stole or something, but uh I can

I can pay you Bitcoin."

Okay. So, he's honest. So, we did a we

did a little swap. I 100 Franks or

something like that. I I didn't mean to

do it, but I accidentally made a profit

from him because we miscalculated how

many bitcoin

I it it worked out like I I think I got

the decimal point wrong in the

calculations. So I got a bit too much

disco for the hundred Franks or whatever

I gave him. U but that was accidental

but you know he was an honest guy but

you know he there was in that particular

situation he found a solution. There was

someone on the planet i.e. the the first

guy he asked willing to take Bitcoin.

>> Totally. And I see one comment in the

chat and then I'll let you take over,

Keith, but it said uh and I'm sure it's

in line with what you were thinking of

when you said that people think it has

no use case. So, someone said, "I'll say

it publicly. Bitcoin is Beanie Babies

without the cute cuddly stuffed toy you

can hug when you feel bad for wasting

your money." So, when someone comes to

you with that hypothesis or thesis, I

guess, where they say it has no use

case, how do you respond to that?

>> Well, it's a very tribal thing. you

know, bit people who either love or hate

Bitcoin. Not I mean, I'm sorry, I'm

going to start again. There's armies of

people who love Bitcoin and hate gold.

There's armies of people who love gold

and hate Bitcoin. So, and then there's

an even bigger army of people who don't

care either way or like or like it like

them both. I think for the most part,

those who like both keep their mouth

shut. M

>> uh but anytime you so anytime someone

writes Bitcoin's going to go up then

you'll have an army of haters saying you

idiot you know how how can you say that

just wait till Michael Sailor sells all

his Bitcoin and the whole market will

crash to zero. Uh

you and you've probably got a few people

saying I'm not going to join in this but

you know if Bitcoin goes to zero I'm

buying every single every every single

one of the 21 million out there. Um, and

likewise, if someone comes out and says,

"Bitcoin's about to crash." Inevitably,

you'll have someone come in and say,

"Don't you get it?" You know, this is

what's going on and

institutions are coming in. This is

happening, that's happening. And they'll

find reasons why it's why it's not going

to crash. So, it's tribal. Totally

tribal. So, I try not to say too much

when someone makes an opinion. Uh

because the minute I say something, I'm

going to have an army of haters.

Whatever happens.

>> No, I I think that's probably the right

approach. And I think that Bitcoin is

one of those things where you wake up to

it when you either have an experience

where you would see that it definitely

has a use case or you come across

someone who who it does and then then it

clicks. But I don't think you can force

that upon someone. So I think that's

probably the right perspective. Uh

Keith, what what else did you have for

Clive?

I actually just wanted to pull up a

quick uh little bit of a meme based on

the question that you were asking

earlier around Bitcoin versus gold. Um

>> I think I know the one.

>> Yeah, people have been this one this one

first and it's just this guy naive

saying have you considered selling your

crypto? Guy says no. Sunglasses on. Take

your sunglasses off. [laughter]

>> He's crying.

>> And underneath he's crying.

I mean it's obviously

a play a little bit on the laser eyes as

well, isn't it?

>> Yes, certainly.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You know, I if if you if you

on LinkedIn a couple of years ago um I

wrote an article uh which was um Bitcoin

hit an all-time high, but it's not what

you think. Uh Bitcoin by the time was at

$16,000 at the time, I think. Um, but

the article was about the hash rate

reaching an all-time high. Obviously,

Bitcoin was down from, I don't know,

40,000 or 60,000 to 16,000. Uh, but I I

I did actually say uh the question I

towards the end of the article was,

should you buy Bitcoin? And the answer

was absolutely yes. Um, that was the

time when I just started on LinkedIn and

I got four views,

four views for my article. Uh, obviously

these days I'm getting tens of

thousands, but uh it's a bit of a shame

because I was kind of right. Uh, but I

didn't get any any uh applause for it.

>> Totally fair.

>> There's there's one other meme uh pretty

much well in line with everything. Ben,

you sent this. I think uh you were right

about the dollar collapse. You were

right about hyperinflation.

>> You were right about being in assets.

But you were wrong about one thing.

>> It was gold.

>> It was gold. I had I had a bunch I think

we're near the bottom for Bitcoin

because I had I had multiple friends

send me that who don't like crypto

>> and so I think that may be a bottom

signal. But uh Clive, do you have any

>> any um how can I phrase this? Besides

Bitcoin, are you a believer that like

anything besides Bitcoin is a shitcoin

or or do you see value and utility in

the altcoin market?

I've not seen anything which at the

moment I mean I have I'm not really

looking at the moment but I have looked

in the past and I've not really seen

much which was sufficiently convincing.

I mean I did uh at one time find an

altcoin that I thought was very

convincing. Uh but I sold out of it at

some point and today it's worthless

anyway. just as well. But it was uh it

did seem to have a a very valid and

potentially good use case. But um as

time went on, I realized that they it

was having trouble getting traction. I I

got out of it. Um I think the big one

which everyone looks at is XRP.

Um,

>> yeah, [laughter]

>> the

I'm not I I I went into it at one point

because everyone said they're going to

win a court case and when they win the

court case against Gary Gendler, um, the

the coin will sore. And that did in fact

happen. Uh, but I failed to sell when it

jumped up and then it went back back

back back and finally it reached the

purchase price. I thought, okay, I'll

I'll I'll be happy to get my money back.

Um, I don't know what's happened to it

after that. uh but the it was never one

I loved and what I didn't particularly

like uh was two things. First of all, in

2017 I did read the white paper of XRP

at the time. Now that might have changed

since and

if I had understood it correctly at the

at the time you didn't need huge amounts

of XRP to send money around the world.

uh a bank could be sending billions

around the world with just $10 worth of

Bitcoin which will last them over 20

years. Sorry, $10 worth of uh XRP which

will last them over 20 years at the

time. Now things may have moved on and

and Ripple Labs of Inc. is of course

working with many governments and

they've got lots of great projects. So I

think Ripple Labs Inc. will probably do

very well and they'll probably get lots

of great contracts. But will that

translate into a valuable use for XRP or

will it just translate into a use for

XRP as opposed to a valuable use for

XRP? Um that that I haven't um studied

enough to determine that would be the

case. It certainly wasn't the case uh in

2017. Uh whether it's something's

changed, I don't know. But the the other

side of the thing is what irks me a

little bit is we're seeing the uh

founders um what's his name? Uh Gary.

No, no. Um

>> you got Brad Garlinghouse.

Mark Garlinghouse. Yeah. They've and and

Ripple Labs Inc. being sellers of

Bitcoin over the years. Uh not be of

sellers of XRP over the years.

And I'm asking myself why.

Now I think the reason is the like

anybody who's got a lot of a lot an

awful lot of money in one asset. They

probably want to diversify. That makes

sense. And I think probably Ripple Labs

Inc. sees this all this XRP as a

opportunity over the years to raise a

bit of money here and there to fund it

their operations while they get to full

thing. But it doesn't sit terribly well

with me when I see people on the one

hand telling us how wonderful XRP is

going to be and at the same time they're

selling through the back door. I don't

like that.

I think that's very very fair.

Um and then I think so one of the other

things that we talked a little bit about

briefly was uh the copper situation and

uh Jamaat particularly talking about how

he thinks that that's going to be uh in

even higher demand because of the AI

buildout. Uh coming back to some of that

conversation, what are your thoughts on

everything that's happening with

artificial intelligence and do you think

that we're in a bubble?

Well,

we're seeing a lot of vendor financing.

That's a vendor financing is when you

lend money or give money or invest money

with somebody who's going to buy your

products.

Now, that's not illegal. Uh let's face

it, uh the whole world has been doing

that with America for decades. We've

been lending America money so they can

buy our cheap goods. Um,

I don't know why. Okay, tariffs might be

a way to stop that. But I mean, the best

thing that they could do in America is

is basically say, um, the nobody nobody

outside America is allowed to hold any

treasuries. That way, you wouldn't be

able to borrow any money. You wouldn't

be able to buy our goods. But let's just

come back to the vendor financing on the

AI side. If you're lending money to or

investing money in a company which is

going to buy your products, that turns

into immediate profits and sales, but

there's no certainty that the company

into which you've put the money will

ever make a profit. So you may be

creating sales which would let's say not

have existed but for the vendor

financing and when when that investment

you've made in that company because

don't you put money into the company to

buy your goods. When that investment fa

ultimately fails because they went out

of business or because they couldn't

repay, you've lost your money. So, what

you've done is create immediate profit

at the risk of having a loss much later.

You're pushing profits forwards to the

current year, boosting your share price,

which is wonderful if you happen to be a

big shareholder, as many of the top

executives are, and you're unloading

your shares on the market almost every

month. Um, and you obviously want the

highest possible share price. The way to

get the highest possible share price is

to basically boost your sales. And the

way you boost your sales is by paying

somebody money so they can buy your

stuff. Are you with me? Was that too

complicated

>> with you for the most part? [laughter]

>> So the question then the question was is

it is it a bubble get a pop? Well,

uh I I think someone needs to do some I

I haven't done it, but

I think the maths of the AI situation is

that there seems to be some sort of cut

off point of what people are willing to

pay around the $20 mark for when we're

talking about private individuals like

you and I. I mean, some people can

afford a lot more, but it seems they've,

you know, all these services you see

everywhere. Netflix, it's $20 a month.

YouTube, it's $20 a month. Uh AI Chat GP

is $20 a month. Perplexi is $20 a month.

You know, they all hitting the $20.

Somehow someone's done the maths and say

people get indigestion at more than

that. Uh and I I think that's pro, you

know, what's that? Spotify. Same thing.

So, I think what where we've got to is

there there's a price point beyond which

sales will start to drop off. So, if

they raise the price to $50 a month, the

overall sales might be lower than at $20

a month. But the trouble with $20 a

month is you've got all these people

using resources, the electricity, and

their power, and it's unprofitable as as

far as we know, it's unprofitable at the

$20 mark.

So, what do they do? raise it to 50 and

get less revenue and maybe incur less

expenses on the front. But the, you

know, the other side of the coin is we

got all these different companies

appearing like mushrooms in the night

saying, "Hey, we we we're doing AI, too.

I mean, there's hundred, I mean, we

probably got 10 or 12 big ones that we

know, but there's hundred of them

popping up left, right, and center." Um,

so

who's going to be the winner? Will it be

the big names who've got the most money

at the moment or will it be someone

else? We just don't know. So, do I think

there's going to be a bubble pop? I I

don't like to use the word pop, but I

think there might be a a sort of deflate

where the it stops rising, it goes down

20 or 30% and uh then has its ups and

downs. So, it's neither here nor there.

Um but I wouldn't be I wouldn't be

chasing it too much. I don't see any

harm in having some exposure, but I have

no exposure and I don't really feel like

doing so at the moment.

>> No, that's I think that's completely

fair. I think that you made a lot of

good points there. I do think that the

$20 price level thing is a major issue

because even the most people that are

paying for that, they're typically power

users of the tool, using it all the

time, which then makes it even further

more expensive for these actual tools

themselves. I think that's a great

perspective. And I also think that the

amount of fear that's out there from

people is being pushed by the people who

need this to be the topic of

conversation 24/7 to continue this

circular financing to continue the

investment. And so a perception versus

reality is a very tough thing to

determine here because there's so few

people on the ground floor. Like there's

we've talked about this so many times,

Keith, where there's like maybe a few

dozen people who actually understand

what's going on and so much of it is

just we're left into the dark. So thank

you for for sharing that. Keith, would

you have something else?

>> Yeah, I mean, uh, first off, we've got

731 people in the live chat. Hit that

like button and gently tap subscribe if

you are enjoying yourself here. Uh,

huge, huge pleasure and honor to have

you all here with us. Uh, but Clive, I

wanted to move [clears throat] into what

does someone really kind of do about all

of these things that are happening right

now? I saw this uh earlier today. that

if you measure uh the S&P uh in gold

instead of dollars, the US stock market

has basically collapsed right now. So,

for the individual that's watching all

of this and they're seeing the price of

gold at these astronomical highs, uh

all-time highs, same thing for silver,

uh how do you even get involved with any

of that? And in general, where should

people be looking to position themselves

right now?

>> Well, first of all, nobody should be

doing anything in a big rush. So

whatever they decide to do, they should

move slowly

>> and then see how they feel.

It's all too easy to get excited about a

particular asset and then put more than

you should have done. You don't realize

that at the time because you're greedy

and you think this is definitely going

to be a winner and you put far more than

you really should be by any sane if you

were talking to a a proper adviser. you

put far more than sensible and then

guess what often well I won't say often

but sometimes it doesn't work out and

you regret what you did. So the my ad

first advice is whatever you decide to

do whether it be equities or bitcoin or

gold or silver or property or anything

else go in gently in small quantities.

Take a breather. See how you feel. If it

doesn't if it doesn't bug you that the

price is moving around buy a bit more.

And it doesn't matter if you're buying

at a higher price than you paid or a

lower price you paid because either way

whether you're buying at a higher or

lower price than previously, you're

guaranteeing yourself that you're not

the last fool because the last fool is

the one who paid the highest price ever.

But if you bought on more than one

occasion, you've got two prices. So your

average price cannot be the highest

price and therefore you're guaranteed

not to be the last full. So uh that that

would be my my first bit of advice. Um,

if you don't have any precious metals,

uh, where you can get your hands on them

quickly and easily, I think it's time to

start. Go and see what you can buy.

Don't care about the price for a little

bit because you're buying so little, you

shouldn't be caring. If you're buying,

let's say, for 1% of your assets or half

a percent of your assets, does it matter

that you paid five or 10% too much? It

doesn't. It doesn't. you you you you're

in the you're now in the game and you're

able to increase that later and if

prices settle down at a lower level

great you can buy some more at a lower

level and if they go higher great you

are smart one because you are an early

bird. Yeah, I think making the decision

the I am statement that I am an

investor. It it takes the conviction to

actually start is a big thing and I

think that that's great perspective

especially in an era when everyone is

operating on fear 24/7 and dipping your

toes in dollar cost averaging into

whatever you decide is the first thing

you want to touch is fantastic advice.

You know, one of the things which has

worked very well for me in the I mean, I

have I've been buying gold all my life,

so it doesn't really matter. But if I

talk about equities, when I go into a

particular equity, I have a 33% rule.

It's on on my website, Clive Thompson.

It explains how it works. But in simple

terms, when you decide to buy a stock,

you think about how much you want to own

at the end of the day, divide it by

three, and you invest 33% of that end

amount in the equity. And then you wait

and you can wait a day, a week, a month,

a year or years. Doesn't matter. You

just wait as long as you feel like

waiting. And after a few days, the price

will be higher or lower. And you can see

how you feel about that. And if you you

then you can decide whether to wait

longer or not. But the good news is if

the price starts accelerating away from

you, you might never need to buy those

other two/3s because in two years time

you might have got your full position

without having to spend twothirds of the

money which gives you spare money to buy

two other things. And if the share price

goes down,

you can ask yourself, how could I have

made a wrong decision? You better go and

look and find out what went wrong with

your decision making. Were you really uh

was there something that you didn't see

that you should have seen? Because

obviously everybody else is seeing it.

They're selling the shares. Why? You

have you you know it's a lesson. If it's

going up there's another lesson. I

probably got it right because everyone

else agrees with me. But if it's going

down, you got to that's when you've

really got to figure out is everybody

wrong or am I am I the one who got it

wrong because other people push the

price down by selling before you. And uh

you have to find that out. If if really

they've all everyone else has got it

wrong and you're the only guy who's

right, well great. You can buy your next

one-third except you get more shares for

your next one/3 than you got for the

last one/3.

>> Uh but on the other hand, if you

discover what you hadn't discovered

before and it's gone down, then you can

say, you know what, I can sell it. I

only bought a third. The loss is so

small it doesn't matter. Whereas you if

you bought a full position, it kind of

hurts to take the loss.

Love it. So, you've spent an entire

career from what I understand in finance

and even investing for yourself.

How important would you say is managing

psychology and your emotions in the game

of investing?

Though, well, I'd like I'd like to tell

you that those who can master their

psychology are the winners. Um I I don't

know that that's necessarily proven

because we've seen you know all these

countless hedge funds come and then shut

shop. Uh so we've got a we got a certain

survivorship bias bias here and these

these hedge funds are the guys who are

telling you you know I have a track

record of seeing the future and

controlling and a disciplined approach

and control the future and then you and

I I know this because I've been

investing in hedge not me personally

well a little bit I've I've had clients

investing in hedge funds all my career

uh from the late 1990s when they started

to exist. uh but you know let's let's go

back in time

some of the biggest geniuses in the

world won the Nobel Prize for I don't

know mathematics or economics the the

guys who ran long long-term capital

management

they they nearly took the whole world

under in I think it was was 1999 or 89 I

can't remember now when when that the

the biggest hedge fund in the world

collapsed having to be bailed out by the

Federal Reserve to save save the banks.

Now these were people who had worked out

the perfect discipline where nothing

could go wrong with the way way their

system worked except something went

wrong. We don't know what it was. So

discipline I don't I'm not sure that

discipline is um

I think I think the other the real

problem is panic. What you do not want

to be is somebody who's

panicking every time the price goes in

the wrong direction for you. You know,

if you if you buy something and the next

day it's down, you say, "Oh my god, uh,

I'm not going to look and find out what

I did wrong. I'm just going to get out

of it because I can't stand this panic.

I'm I'm not sleeping at night." Then

you're in the situation where you're

going to incur a lot of frictional costs

as you go in and out, in and out, driven

by every bit of news. One of the things

I I tend to do and to to avoid that uh

because I'm not going to pretend I'm I'm

a disciplined investor. I'm going to

pretend I'm uh or not pretend I'm going

to say that I do something differently.

When I buy and I'm talking about stocks

here when I buy a stock I tend to put it

away and forget about it for a year at

least. I'm going to put another way. I

don't watch the dayto-day news. I'm not

sitting there looking at my portfolio

saying that was going up. Why did it go

up? That went down. Why did it go down?

I'm not checking uh

It would be quite tedious to check

because if I was checking then I might

see a bit of bad news and think oh I

better sell before everybody else except

you're never selling before everybody

else and then I see a bit of good news

on another one and think oh buy that one

and that starts to create trading and

not a trader. Uh and if you trade the

more you trade the more you're incurring

frictional costs and the harder it

becomes to make money.

>> Very well said. Very well said. For the

people that are watching who uh want to

find ways to become a better investor or

a better thinker in general, are there

any books that you've read that you

recommend to anyone?

>> Well, if you've got the guts for it, get

Ben Grabs the intelligent investor. It's

a very thick tome that you see looking

behind yourself. You got it. You got it

on your shelf then?

>> Yes, sir. Um but you know I think most

people uh if they want to get started

can buy a a book which would have a name

like beginner's guide to investment. Uh

don't buy any of these books which say

get rich in stocks. Uh that's that's in

the intellia Ben Graham's intelligence.

So the books which say get rich in

stocks they usually uh have some magical

system which they claim works. And you

know the the the systems are there's

nothing wrong with the systems. They're

all valid, but they're not valid all of

the time. They work some of the time and

some of the time they don't. Uh, so when

you buy one of these books which says

get rich quick, you you're going to find

in that book there's going to be a magic

formula like buy companies with low PEG

ratios or buy companies with high

momentum or buy value companies or buy

uh companies where the board of

directors are buying the shares, you

know, and these are all magic formulas

and there's plenty of them. Uh what I

would do is buy a beginner's guide to

investment where they cover the basics

and then you can start to look at the uh

the kinds of things you should be

looking at like is the company making a

profit? Do they have a product that

people are likely to need the same of or

more of in the future? And are they

turning that profit into positive cash

flow? Because don't forget profit isn't

necessarily cash in the bank. You know,

you can you could buy a ton of steel and

then the value of price of steel goes up

and you can say you've made a profit,

but you haven't if you haven't sold it,

you can't pay the stuff

>> completely.

>> So, that actually also just perfectly

led me into something I meant to ask

earlier. Uh, in one of your videos, you

actually brought up the fact that Rick

Rule, who is a very popular precious

metals investor, has been selling his

silver position and rotating into silver

miners. and he actually quoted something

very similar to what you just said there

in making this decision. He was like,

uh, paper money is paper money. It's not

real. The gains are not yours until you

realize them. Um, you touched a little

bit on this before, but I wanted to

really pick your brain on looking at the

miners versus the spot opportunity or or

trying to buy physical precious metals

of some sort. What What do you think

about that?

Well, I spent the last few days in my

very small amount of spare time because

I'm quite overwhelmed with questions,

but I spent the last few days studying

uh gold and silver miners to see where

the price ought to be if the price of

gold and silver stands still at the

moment. Uh I probably got through no

more than 8 to 10 stocks. So, it's quite

a small sample at this point in time.

And my conclusion is that on average

they ought to be about 145% higher than

the current price. [gasps]

Uh and that that's based on some very

very complicated mathematics. I'm

looking at lots of different things

where you know what how much they were

producing 12 months ago uh for the

quarter 12 month how much they're

producing for the quarter now. uh what

the price they were what the price was

at the beginning of the quarter of their

under their metal what it was at the end

of the quarter then what it's now then

what what the price was on the day they

announced the results uh uh how the

share price behaved on throughout that

period and how the uh

the sales changed with the gold price or

silver price and how the costs changed

with the gold and silver price so it's

quite complicated calculation but at the

end of the day I get to

some numbers which tell me that

a small number, one or two might be

overpriced at the moment, but across the

board they're very underpriced and very

very underpriced. Uh I think uh if the

gold and silver prices hold where they

are now, we might be looking at uh share

prices of 140% higher in a year, year

and a half when the impact of these

higher earnings comes through. The the

and Rick Ru's got it right. I mean the

important thing to say about him, he is

a person who has donkeys years of

experience in that sector. He also has

a a great brain which can work out just

as I am doing what the future profits

will be of various companies and he's

even doing something which I cannot do

which is assessing the value of

companies which are not yet producing

but which might produce in the future.

Now that that's a mathematics I won't

even attempt because I think it's too

difficult for me to say what a company

might produce. There's too many

unknowns. Uh but at least with the

producing companies, you've got a fairly

good idea. You know how many ounces of

gold they produced last year. You know

how many they they produced this year.

You know how many they think they'll

produce next year. You can put a price

on each of those productions.

You can see what their costs were last

year, what they are this year, what they

think which which direction of travel

they got for the costs. put a decent

estimate of the costs and you can come

out with a gross or rather gross profit

and then you can knock off some other

expenses like how much they spend on

prospecting, marketing, uh management

and non-mining costs and you can get to

where the bottom line might lie in terms

of earnings per share and then all you

have to do is put now another

complicated thing what multiple do you

put on it? uh I tend to put to reach my

conclusion I tend to put a low multiple

uh but if you are in a period of rapidly

rising earnings per share

it's more common for high multiples to

apply to companies with fast rising mult

uh earnings per share but putting a low

multiple I get to much higher share

prices than today across the board so

for someone who doesn't know which ones

to buy you could probably just buy an

exchangeraded fund and you get all of

them and you'll do fine

>> amazing so where do people go to source

information to make an investment thesis

because if you just scroll let's say a

platform like Twitter where I think a

lot of people use that for their

investment information which is

definitely a dangerous game I don't

recommend doing that but where do people

go to get uh like solid information that

they can actually use to make decent

decisions

>> well the absolutely amazing thing we've

got today is there are countless tools

out there investment tools available to

the man in the street which give you far

more information than ever before in

history and uh which are very very hot

competition for those expensive tools

which you find in financial offices like

Reuters and Bloomberg. Uh those are very

expensive tools but we we as a as

private individuals can get almost all

of the information we want by paying $20

a month for example from lots of

different lots and lots of different

tools. Um, if people would like to look

at my channel, clivetoson.com, the very

last video I did uh explain the use of a

particular tool and shows how to use it

and shows the value of that. Uh, but

there are other videos there and uh you

can find out what what works for me and

what works for other people. Uh, but

yeah, you got you got to in a way you've

got to and by the way, the tool I'm

using is a free tool free of charge. So,

uh, it's not like uh it's going to cost

anybody to do that. Um, so

all you have to do is

look around, find a tool which works for

you. There's different, you know, some

people are very uh, they're very good

with numbers. They like to look at

jumbles of numbers and pages and

spreadsheets and other people just want

to look at a a a green blob and if it's

green, they buy it and if it's yellow,

they don't. You know, it's kind of

depends on what people are happy with.

Are they more picture people or are they

are they do they want to read the words?

Uh because so there's websites which

translate these fundamentals into words.

There's websites which present the

fundamentals in hard numbers. Uh and

there's websites which put it into p a

picture type format. So you all you have

to do is pick pick what suits you and uh

go for it.

>> That's it. I think playing around with

different tools. We have access to so

many that I think getting your hands on

them and using them and and and uh

playing around with it is such such an

important thing. And if you guys want to

see Clive's channel, uh, it's linked

down below. So Keith's popping up on the

screen right now. It is the first link

in the description box down below. If

you've enjoyed this stream, you'll love

Clive's content. So go show him some

love. And if you want to see the

specific video he was referring to, you

can go ahead and and check that out

there. And then also uh clive

Thompson.com.

>> Sweet. Go check those out. I'll get that

added to the description box. That's not

there currently, but I'll get it added.

And then uh I think with the last few

minutes we have with Clive here, we'll

open it up to the chat and uh and if you

have questions, let them fly and then

we'll throw a few at Clive before he

gets back to his evening.

>> Yep. Yep. And Clive, um growing up in

Switzerland, I imagine you grew up

speaking a few different languages.

You're completely fully fluent in

English. What What else you got?

Um, I do speak fluent French, but to be

honest with you, it's almost

unnecessary.

U

Switzerland is a financial hub or

everybody with a large fortune will have

a family office here in Switzerland

because you're next to your banks,

you're next to the accountants, you're

next to the lawyers and the whole world

in the financial world is operating to a

large extent in English. Um, so every

bank I ever worked for, even though they

were Swiss banks sometimes, uh, the last

one was Union Bona Prebe, a Swiss

private bank. Um,

everything's in English. Uh, you know,

you work you work for a uh, my wife

works for a French well-known a very

very very large well-known reputable f

uh, French private bank. Um, but English

is the sort of the way they communicate

even though it's head office in France.

Now, of course, you got to speak French.

So, but it's kind of like you never send

you never send out a anything without

putting it in English as well.

>> Makes sense. Everybody everybody just

naturally goes there. I mean I when I

was working I had clients from France uh

French clients you know they would be uh

heads of industry you know top the top

people in some large French companies

uh they chose to bank in what we call we

call them the Anglo-Saxon team or the

English team. They chose to bank in the

English team uh because their day-to-day

language was more often English than

anything else. Um, now there may have

been a secondary issue in that. Maybe

perhaps some of them thought the the

French fisk, the uh tax police won't be

able to understand what I'm saying on

the telephone if I speak English. But,

you know, that wasn't that was obviously

not really a valid thing because the

Swiss banks are all reporting

everybody's income to every country in

the world. So, that that but you know,

there's still a psychology there that

perhaps nobody understands me in France

if I speak English.

>> That's awesome. Uh, we got one question

here. I'll pop up. uh would love to know

Clive's thoughts on the clarity bill in

the US and the reverberation that could

be possible if any worldwide.

Well, this is a a way to preserve the

status of the US dollar as the world's

reserve currency because obviously

everybody they'd like everybody to start

using stable coins which will

effectively be invested into US

treasuries, therefore funding the US

deficit and possibly kicking the crisis

years into the future.

And so I understand why they'd do that.

I think uh it's not a bad plan but the

it also paves the way for digital

currencies. I mean it is a digital

currency at the end of the day. Uh the

central bank digital currencies and the

central bank digital currencies might

well be a mechanism which is used to get

governments off the hook for their

national debt. And the way you do that

is a bit like we had in the UK in the

1950s after the war, which it was called

Russian coupons, where you couldn't buy

a pound of butter if you didn't have the

Russian coupon. It didn't matter whether

you're a millionaire or not. You had you

had to have the money to pay the butter,

but you weren't allowed to buy it

without the coupon to go with it. So

let's imagine that we get to a situation

where the whole economy is starting to

operate on some sort of central bank

digital currency and they might pass

that law to say we need that to happen

so that we can monitor for anti-money

laundering for terrorism for drug

dealing for criminals what have you. So

now the whole economy is every

transaction. You buy some shares, you

buy a house, it's got to the money's

going to be swept from your bank into

your central bank digital wallet and

then for your CBDC wallet into the

whatever you're buying. And when money

comes into your CBDC wallet, everything

above the limit you're allowed in your

wallet is swept out back into your bank

account. An automatic sweep. Uh that's

how it might operate until one day you

wake up and find that you can't sweep

money into your digital wallet anymore.

because there's a crisis and we don't

want all these wicked people going down

to the shops and buying up all the

toilet rolls or whatever the problem is.

So, you suddenly find that you're

limited to $20,000 or whatever in your

digital wallet. you can't have anymore

and you can't go out and speculate on

foreign currencies or gold or whatever

you feel like speculating on because you

can't get any money into your wallet

because it's the sweep into your wallet

is now temporarily because of the crisis

blocked except that temporary becomes

permanent. So over time the old currency

which is in your bank ceases to have any

value because you can't spend it.

And what does the government own owe?

The government owes the population the

old money, so they can pay you back in

the old money as much as they like.

Yeah, you're never you're never going to

you're never going to cause any problems

because it's no longer a pro uh is no

longer affecting the economy in any way,

shape or form because the whole economy

is now operating on a highly digitally

controlled single currency which they

can control what happens to it, where it

is, what you do with it, who has it,

whether they switch it off or on,

whether they pay you interest or whether

they don't pay you interest, whether

they charge you interest. The whole

economy is they can control the economy

much much better with this new digital

currency. and on day one owe absolutely

nothing

>> to anybody in the new currency and the

old currency is effectively defunct.

Problem solved.

>> Does this push

>> there are a few issues around that but

I'll that's a longer discussion.

>> Certainly we're simplifying everything

for the the sake of conversation. But

does the push towards like what

seemingly is a surveillance global state

and and uh obviously one of the biggest

tools in that being CBDC's does that

concern you?

Not me, but it concerns me for my

children or my grandchildren. You know,

on day one, I don't think they'll have

too much surveillance. But I think as

time marches on, it'll become uh tougher

and more controlling. Uh and so many of

the freedoms that people have become

used to in the last decades might be

taken away or severely restricted.

>> And do you think there's anything that

the public could do to avoid that?

reality.

>> Um I don't think the public is motivated

enough. They'd rather sit at home, watch

Netflix.

>> I agree. Yeah. I I think that's that's

an unfortunate reality that we're in. Um

yeah, I think that that the more people

wake up to that reality, I think the

more people will be interested in

Bitcoin, crypto, etc. Keith, uh I think

Keith's coming back now, but we've had a

lot of good questions in the chat, so

I'll throw one or two more up and then

we'll let you get back to your evening

class. This has been awesome. I really

appreciate you coming on and and sharing

some of your experiences and

perspectives with us.

>> You're welcome. Just so I'm just

glancing at my Daria. Uh just make sure

I'm not

>> running uh Yeah, I'm fine. It's fine. I

just wanted to make sure I wasn't uh

running out of time for another

appointment. I do have have a uh

sometimes some days as many as six um

consultations with uh which I've been

doing for free of charge. Not not Zoom

videos like yours, but uh consultations

with people who've got uh investment

financial problems.

>> Wow.

>> Uh I'm not I'm not taking any more

appointments because I'm booked out

through to March. But

>> Wow.

>> What made you decide to do that for

free?

>> Um well, I've worked all my life. I

earned money. Uh I never had a day I

never had a day when I wasn't working or

at least not being paid. Um and not many

people are not everybody as lucky as me.

So, you know, I've had my fair share.

Uh, a lot of people find themselves

losing their jobs and sometimes they're

out of work for months, even years. So,

yeah, I don't uh I don't I don't see why

I've got I have what I need to live on.

I don't see why I have to charge people.

Doesn't make it. What's the point?

>> That's awesome.

>> It's awesome.

>> So, good. Did you see anything else in

the chat, Keith, that you wanted to

throw up to Clyde?

>> There was one about whether or not you

invest in any collectibles, and I

thought that was an interesting

question.

>> That's a great question.

Well, I think it's a great idea to do

so. Um, and it depends what your passion

is. So, uh, I have a personal passion

for silver coin collections. Well, one

could extend it to gold. Um so many

countries UK, Australia, Spain for

example issue as Canada to issue coins

which have a a theme and they issue one

coin a year like typic often an animal.

So that's uh let's as an example the uh

Perth Mint in Australia they they have

what's called the Luna collection which

is a collection of 12 zodiac luna

animals and each year they'll issue a

coin with that animal in various sizes 1

oz and more and other sizes and it comes

out in gold and silver and when you get

to the 12th animal you've got the

complete collection. Then they start

again with the 12 animals. So they're

they're now the Australians are now on

their third round or third is called the

Luna series 3. And what's great fun is

you get one or two of these then you try

and sometime somewhere somehow you'll

come across another one from the same

collection and you don't care what it

costs because it's part of the

collection. So you just buy it to be and

but where it gets really exciting when

you've got 11 coins out of the 12 and

you you you keep hoping you're going to

come across that 12th coin somewhere.

Uh, and I don't go on I wouldn't go on

eBay or uh an auction site to buy it at

the the price. The fun is finding not

going out and saying I could you can buy

anything on the market. The fun is going

and finding it by accident. So walking

into a watch shop say you got any coins

or things like that just and sometimes

you just it just lands in your lap by by

coincidence. You say, "Wow, that was the

one I was missing. I'm so lucky." Um, I

give you an example. I went into there

was one I was missing for

uh one of the Luna collections. I can't

remember which one it was now. Um I was

missing one coin and I went into Deusa,

which is a go large gold and silver uh

dealer in Germany, Switzerland, and

Europe and

said, "Have you got anything?" They

said, "We just got this coin." And I

thought I missing one for my collection.

I'm pretty sure I've got that one. So I

said, "No, I've I've got it." And then I

went I went I I went home and I checked

on my database and it was the one I was

missing and I rushed back to the shop

and said we still got it. Luckily they

hadn't sold it. Uh

so that was that was an example. But

obviously some people like whiskey. Now

if you're going to collect whiskey what

you want to collect is the whiskey

bottles from distilleries which are

defunct which are have gone out of

business because there'll never be any

more of them. There'll only be less of

them and there will always be someone

who wants to own a bottle of whiskey

from a distillery which went down to

business 20 30 years ago. And of course

whiskey you can keep for literally

forever can't you? It's not going to go

stale. Um but you know there people who

like dolls or handbags or watches uh and

just depends on what your personal

preference is and you know one of the

wonderful thing you collect in

collectibles is paintings because you

can actually hang them on your wall and

admire them and and and if you everyone

would have that the idea and my idea for

paintings and this is what I try to do

and I say try to because I'm being very

unsuccessful at buying anything uh

although I've tried But what I try to do

is find a painting where there's an

absolutely fantastic amazing story to go

with it. Uh for example, I have one,

it's quite a small painting by an artist

uh he died I don't know 150 years ago,

but it's a very very detailed painting

and it's some English ladies uh young

ladies, young girls if you like. in

probably in their 20s sitting in the

garden drinking tea and the house is

behind and a gentleman has arrived who

patently is the secret lover of one of

the young girls and the mother has

intercepted the gentleman

cuz she's not going to have any of that.

Two of the girls are looking at the man,

looking at their friend and giggling

because they know what's going on. And

the one who is in love with him is

looking down at her crochet pretending

she hasn't noticed that he's arrived.

And it's, you know, it's a great story

as as a picture. Uh that's the kind of

thing I like because I like I like I

like, you know, I think a picture's got

to tell a story.

>> Totally agree. Yeah. And we as humans,

we have this natural inclination to to

want to collect. And I think the the the

things that come from that, the the

connection with people that you know,

the introduction to people that you

don't, I think there's a lot there. And

I'm an avid collector myself, primarily

in sports cards, Pokemon uh cards, and

then um NFTTS. So, I get a lot of hate

for that on this show, but I I

definitely enjoy collecting. It's

definitely something that that I like a

lot and hope to do more of it in the

future. But uh Keith, do you have

anything else?

>> Not too much else from me. Um

>> Keith, what do you collect?

>> Gosh,

I really don't collect much, man. I

really

>> I'm sure you will.

>> I guess maybe books. I mean, I I like to

collect books. side. There's a lot of

stuff that I haven't read that sits on

my [laughter] on my shelf.

>> Well, actually now now you say that

Keith, I just tell you I I am a

collector, but I haven't bought anything

for donkeyy's years of anti-quarian

books, but my my pension for antiquarian

books was only to buy the anti-quarian

books. These are books of 150 200 years

ago which

>> could not be reprinted. So there'll be

no you can always reprint a novel. So

there'll be novels. I buy books which

can't be reprinted because their

contempts are either unacceptable today

>> or because they are so so wrong in what

[laughter] they write. Uh so you know to

give give you an example uh there there

there's a uh there's a book called

modern inventions of our time from

probably 1830 or something and they talk

about the the telegraph which has been

laid across the seabed between UK and

America. This is one of many things that

money bond inventions and the they're

kind of puzzled as why these telegraph

keeps getting cut. They don't understand

it. the our ships sinking on the

telegraph cable or what but they found

out much later that it was the this is

not in the book the icebergs are because

the telegraphs when they were laid they

didn't have a way of knowing whether

they're laying on top of a mountain at

the seabed or in a valley but as they

laid the telegraphs these things would

go across tops of mountains and under

down into the valleys and across the top

of mountains and then along comes a

massive iceberg a trillion tons and just

slices a telegraph cable in two they

didn't now of course they have

techniques to avoid that problem. Uh but

what what they what what they what the

interesting bit is they said and now

it's absolutely amazing. It's possible

to send as many as 10 messages across

from America to Britain. But of course

we'll never need we'll never need to

know have that many messages because

there there's not that many wars

breaking out or something like that.

>> If only they knew

>> 10 me 10 messages far more than we'll

ever need to send from America and

England a day. Wow. That's awesome.

>> Super cool.

>> I love that. Yeah, the the recurring

thing from everything that I took from

that was like the stories and all that.

It makes it so much more fun. So, that

that's really cool. I'll have to start

getting into book collecting a lot more.

That sounds really interesting.

>> For sure. For sure. Yeah. Thanks for

that, Clive. Um, thanks for all of it.

Is there anything else that you want to

make sure that you share with uh anyone

that's here?

>> Well, anybody who would like to look at

my website, clivetoson.com, there's lots

of interesting stuff. There's some of my

more interesting videos on it and uh

there's a few resources of uh ways to

invest your money in stocks or whatever.

Um have a look around. Oh yes, I've got

the uh my portfolios from 2023 through

to 2026. They're called the beat the

benchmark portfolio. Uh I publish them

every year on LinkedIn at the start of

each year. Uh every single one beat

every benchmark every year.

>> Awesome.

So the portfolios where you've got 40

stocks, nothing changes from first day

of the year to last day of the year and

measuring performance every day. You can

if you download the portfolio, it will

auto update in Excel. It's linked to the

uh price feeds. So when you download the

Excel spreadsheet, the the prices are

updating. You can see the value every

single day. Uh and you can see how it

did in each respective year.

>> Amazing. I'm going to get that added to

the description box of this live. So, if

you guys refresh your page, the link to

Clive's website should be available as

well in about 10 seconds and then you'll

be able to access that.

>> Awesome. Yeah, [clears throat] thanks

for doing this, Clive. It's it's also

really uh cool to hear that you're

spending your time from now to March

just taking calls with people and

helping them out with their situation.

That's a really that's really inspiring.

>> It's awesome.

>> Well, it's very fulfilling and uh all I

all I ask in exchange is other people's

thanks. If they thank me, that's all I

need.

>> Well, we thank you for sure. I know the

chat does tremendously. I've seen so

many so much love for you, Clive, in the

chat. So, clearly what you're putting

out into the universe, you're definitely

getting back and and we appreciate you

sharing some of that here in a big way.

>> Thanks very much, Chaps. Um, it's been

great to meet you, Keith. It's been

great to meet you, Ben.

>> Likewise. Hope you have a great rest of

your evening and enjoy your night and we

hope to speak with you soon.

>> Cheers. Look forward to it. Byebye now.

>> Cheers. Bye.

All right,

>> I can click off, right?

>> You're good to go, Clive. Thank you so

much.

>> Okay. All right. Byebye.

>> Bye-bye.

>> Peace.

>> What a legend.

>> Wow, that was awesome.

>> That was great. We'll do a quick debrief

with you guys in the chat. Um, again, if

you guys ask questions or that we didn't

see was not deliberate, just there's a

lot of people in here. So, we really

appreciate all of you guys coming in and

hanging with us. And yeah, I think I

love that you doubled down on that,

Keith, because I think the biggest

takeaway is like that's the most

important thing, right? It's just the

the integrity behind what you do and and

looking out for other people and and

that does come back to you. And I'm sure

that's been a recurring thing throughout

Clive's life. And I think that's

something that we try to push in the

show in a big way, too.

>> Yeah. Like all the things that I took

away from that conversation were

definitely very meta. like it wasn't

like the the the things he's saying

about gold and silver and what's going

to happen next in the currency

devaluation. It's how does he really

look at all of this and and how does he

um like what are the values that he has

through all of the things that he's

doing cuz

>> there's something very unique about

Clive. It's not just that he understands

and knows these things, right? It's the

fact that he's taken time to come to the

internet and share some of the things

that he's known for all this time,

right? And um and you know how how many

of us have that wise person in our lives

that we can reach out to and ask certain

questions to. It's it's not very often.

>> So it was very cool that he's doing that

and he's he's putting himself out here

in the world. He also didn't have to

come on the pod, you know what I mean?

So

>> totally.

>> Yeah. So definitely go show him some

love. Both those links that he

mentioned, his channel and his website

are in the description box now if you

refresh your page. And yeah, I think one

other thing too that's worth reiterating