How Gen Z Will Build the Next Billion Dollar Companies

A lot of people remember the 2022 Boner

show because if you me

that people wait had to be delayed for

like 5 hours cuz we had audio issues.

Fun fact, Bon didn't agree to do this

show until 199 because he was also

skeptical that are we going to be able

to produce this thing at the level that

they wanted. Now if you look at the

production community in Nigeria these

people that produce shows they didn't go

to any school to train to become

electrical engineers. Just some guy who

has been around for a while who just

joins wire. There's this guy who has

been doing Tai Chi with the wiring under

the stage for the event, right? Bon boy

has a 35 man band that requires mics,

right? Boom. 11 mic blew off. Need

concerts. There was a point that I went

off stage and people were stoning me

water. Me and Jimmy the host were

telling us P and bottle on the stage. We

had 100 tables. He sold at 5 million. I

have 25,000 people in the crowd who are

paid for tickets. All my brain was doing

is how we going to refund this people.

This show doesn't happen. A lot of

people playing Boner D. It wasn't

Boner's fault. And I think for the song

he come and say for the first time right

it was Nigeria that happened to all of

us bro when Boner finally climbed on

stage and he

said Mike blew for the first one of the

performance I was moving microphone from

a guy playing trumpet and guitar so that

okay let me make trumpet small

he is the architect behind moments you

live like Bernab boy Ashake and Rema

sold out concerts with crowds of over

60,000 people dio is a product visionary

cultural strategist and one of the most

trusted minds in Nigeria's tech and

entertainment scene. A lot of people

don't know this which brought back

Niger. Yeah. And it was a way for

acquisition for which at the time

because then in the beginning when came

back the only way he could vote was

through Wat. We thought that was drive

acquisition for culture and the behavior

of people it's strategy for breakfast.

But this episode isn't just about what

he's built. It's about how he sees the

world. Nigeria is the only place where I

see a global movie superstar or a global

Nigerian superstar doing Tik Tok kids

super movie. You see people laugh at it

and I'm saying it's the Nigerian way.

What the skit guys have done from

themselves. I've not seen it anywhere

else in the world. Can you talk a bit

deeper about Gen Z's? This is a

generation that is not inspired by how

much you pay them. What they really care

about is this conversation is a

masterclass in product thinking,

cultural pattern recognition and

building for the new Africa. December

did not grow organically. It was

strongly engineered by

so Dio when people listen to this

podcast they may be in their car they

may be on their way to work somewhere

maybe they're working out and I want you

to first think about if someone was to

see this video with your name and they

click into it what would you want them

to know about building in Nigerian being

a builder it's an impossible game man

like it's an impossible game The game

doesn't have a manual. It doesn't have a

route. Um, and for everything that you

are playing it, you are creating new

levels that the next person playing the

game is not seeing, right? Um, building

Nigeria is like it's one of the hardest

thing anybody can try to do, right?

Well, it is possible, right? Um, and you

know, one of the things I've sort of

been very bullish about

is building great things visa.

Um, we can do it from here.

Nigerians can build products that can

compete with what we have in the world.

We just have to build the Nigerian way.

And once you understand what the

Nigerian way means, right? Uh building

becomes fun and there's no formula to

it. And building Nigeria defies every

economic theory you've ever been taught

in school. Trust me, whatever they

taught you that KA said, uh it doesn't

work in Nigeria, right? Um but then he

has his own he has his own strength

also, right? And as in I tell people

this the Nigerian Nigeria itself is

designed for a Nigerian only to win.

And if you look at the history of

businesses or people that built

successful things in this country,

they're not foreigners. They're

Nigerians. And once you just understand

what the Nigerian way is, it's hard is

an is an impossible ride. But then you

keep writing and you'll find success.

Yeah. M so you know also I'm really

excited for this interview because we

have known you for years right and

anytime I step into your office I leave

with a

new a new way of thinking and building

products and so you sit at the

intersection of tech culture and

behavior for over a decade from telos to

we chat um to launching Patty Betts and

I want you to talk about specifically

this thing of building, right? Um what

are some particular behaviors that are

that you think are unique to this

country as you're building products?

Like how do you think about it? So yeah,

um like like you know like I said

earlier, right? Finding what the

Nigerian way is. um you know this yes 10

years is when I sort of been actively

trying to do this but this thing started

from when I was just young like high

school you know what I mean and what I

found is over time I've come to find

what the important patterns are and what

sort of makes us right and is that

Nigerians are the most hopeful group of

people I've seen in the world right

we're so hopeful like is that's

literally what drives everything a

Nigerian does and what I found is if

whatever product you're building can

inspire hope you have a chance and when

you do the math you look at what are the

biggest product that do the biggest

numbers in this country they're product

that say hope at a very at different

states um and and because when you look

at Nigerians also right Nigerians sort

of because they don't trust anything

that they find you know because of how

sort of been raised and what the economy

the country has been like right we

distrust things that come top

down right and we celebrate things that

goes comes from down that sort of feels

original and and which is why the grass

of gra forever sell, right? Um once you

can find that single line that sort of

connects everyone and build on that line

um yes it's and it's hope it's really

hopefully then we can now break this

down to different uh segments right well

is really the product needs to inspire

hope and you see if you go to social

media today why is every kid on Tik Tok

because one day they want to be Pella

the 18year-old kid from nowhere was

become successful that's what social

media has done for them right is sort of

broken the barrier and give them reason

that with my phone I can become a

superstar someday you know um and that's

what I found every successful product

inspired

hope and can you talk a bit deeper about

Gen Z specifically right what are

behaviors you're seeing here and the

reason why I'm curious about this

particular segment is because all over

the world Africa has the youngest people

in the world right literally in 10 15

years every probably for one person it's

probably going to be a Nigerian in and

they're going to be young. So, I want

you to talk about the interesting

behaviors you're seeing with them that's

different from others and also like how

you think about building businesses and

what businesses we should be building

for them. Great. Um, you know, that's

one generation that inspires me a lot,

right? Even though I'm sort of a old

millennial, I still think I'm I'm like

them and looking at how my story

started, right? Um, and what I find very

interesting with this generation is I

said they're going to be the greatest

work force the world has seen and

specifically Nigerian Jazz and because

they're not inspired by pay and I can

tell you right um this is a generation

that is not inspired by how much you pay

them. I promise you they are cost

driven. What they really care about is

I'm part of building something. my boss

loves me

and you know I've had to work with this

young people like today I promise you

99% of the guys who work my team are at

Genenz's and I'm telling you that for

all the big concert and the great

product that we built is always and

people don't understand this right

they're first timers it's the first time

the kid who build the bed hop that

changed what music streaming was was

straight out of university it's the

first time was going to build anything

like that all the kids work at these

concerts that we do also I promise you

it's their first time Mhm. M right and

and what this generation reminds me of

is this is how the pyramids were

built. There were guys who were not

engineers the guys who build this

pyramids and this great wonders of the

world. They didn't go to any school to

study engineering but they had sheer

will and they driven by a cause and for

every time when I see them come together

right and because I had to do this

concert I sort of gathered this young

kids in large numbers and I just say

wow this are a different type of

generation they're different type of

movement right and once someone once you

can find something to inspire them as a

whole Niger will be unstoppable

D Let's go back to your journey with

WeChat. You and I have had private

conversations about some of the insights

you had while at WeChat. Why did WeChat

fail in Nigeria at the time? And what do

most foreign tech companies still get

wrong about entering African markets?

So, you know, um which was trying to

build for us and they're trying to build

a product and not power our culture and

who we really are, right? And and I'll

give you a very crazy example of the

experiences that we had right I

remembered when I joined WeChat

um it was myself my friend Eiday I was

DJ experience of West Africa and we're

coming up with different strategies you

know a lot of people don't know this

which brought back Niger yeah that yeah

BBN you know and it was a way for

acquisition for at the time right we're

trying to because then in the beginning

when Niger came back the only way you

could vote was throughout we thought

that was drive acquisition um I remember

we invested a lot of tech product also

we're trying to do So that is called

official account. We're trying to do

things the witch chat way for Nigeria,

right? But culture and the behavior of

people it's strategy for breakfast. And

I remember fast forward to 2015

December, WhatsApp wasn't doing nothing.

WhatsApp had no office in Nigeria was

beating us with the numbers, right? We

were doing promotions, we're doing ads.

We spent billions in marketing. um we're

probably doing 900 800k active users

monthly. By December of 2015, I sat down

with my team and I'm like, we have to

find a way. I have an idea. We've done

tech. We've done all the things that

they told us to do by the product. Let's

try the Nigerian way. I remember telling

Eid that guess what I know the people

are redeem. I grew up in redeem. Let's

go to church. Church. And between me and

you in a week in December, we literally

created an account within WeChat that

publishes Open Heaven. We went to the

redemption camp. Our entire spend was

that TZI was started at the time. Teti

was starting at the time Wi-Fi. Teti set

up Wi-Fi for me at the 100,000 NRA for

people to be able to download Richard.

That was our only cost. We printed one

banner for 20,000 NRA and we had on the

screen listen to pastor boy on WeChat in

that week we had 3.6 6 million new

users. I promise you it was crazy that

in that one week of the church congress,

right? And culture worked understanding

what people wanted. But of course at the

time the Chinese people don't touch

religion. Um and we've tried everything

else that we spend money on, right? And

when they saw that what worked was

religion, uh it was like okay, this is

not the country they want to be in,

right? And and what it is is everybody

try to sell products to us and that's

what everybody miss. And because the

social culture or or sort of what makes

us as a people is different and you know

the big lesson I took from witch and

which is where I sort of found the

answer right and which I said hope and

the things that around it right is I

realized what did we do wrong you know

what I mean after I left out and I was

going to start the next venture I'm like

what did we miss and it was then I

realized that there's no two culture in

the world that share the same soio

economic

structure no two culture because it sort

of made me to sit down and sort of had

big questions. Um, we were all trying to

solve social payment, communication,

social payment. That's what that's what

the goal was. That's what I was trying

to do. what works for them in China and

you know on one of my work trips I sat

down like okay so what did WCA do to win

in China and could not win anywhere else

because it was not just Nigeria they

failed which didn't work anywhere else

right it just works for in China and

very minute Asian countries that always

deal with Chinese people you know what I

mean and I realized that early on in

2009 2010 I remember when started Pa was

pushing mobile money mobile money didn't

work also and all of us were trying to

do the model create the money that

worked in Kenya in Pesa. And so I it now

made me see what we all missed. And what

I found is that this products or this

platforms that we all celebrate today

solved social problems, not technology

problems, right? And Pesa solved a

social problem, right? Unlike me that

Nigerian, right, that grew up here, even

in my village in Bora, there's a UBA

bank. So, you know, when people tell the

bank story, it's not straightforward.

There's a bank in the remote village of

Nigeria. There's a bank. But if you go

to Kenya, it's a different case. Once

you leave Basa Nairobi, you're driving a

100 kilometers is all wilderness and

safari. And what you find is every child

in Kenya is trying every young person in

Kenya is trying to move to the city to

walk to send money back home solve the

social problem sending money back home.

The people decided that this is going to

be our payment for every platform that

congregates. It's not technology that

decided the people decide that oh this

is what we want to do with this platform

right and I found out with Empessa and I

like okay it solved the problem to Kenya

I looked at the UK we all travel the UK

is tap to pay cards and I realized that

okay T2 hasn't worked anywhere else as

has worked literally passed 99% of their

of their own economy and it was because

they had the the trains the

underground which was built the biggest

thing in the in the UK the is the train

transportation that's what everybody

uses right and the way you move around

is that you tap the car the cards the

oyster cards to go around so it was

natural for cards and tax pay to become

the thing that they use also WeChat on

the other hand solve the culture problem

in China you know Chinese people sort of

live in communities right in small small

communities and what you find is that

guy has woken up to work in the factory

in the morning coming back in the

evening is texting the neighbor oh I

need two Shinshen two fish packs and why

because for the first time today if you

go to to the Arab countries and you see

them use chat like WhatsApp they don't

text like you and I they use voice notes

more and because nobody has figured out

how to put the Arabic in the way in

natural form on the keyboard even you

find out they all use voice notes rather

than texting so we was the first person

to put modern Mandarin on the keyboard.

So it became a natural way for Chinese

people to communicate and that's what

was the social drive. Um and I looked at

every society to the US and why cash was

successful in the US and not anywhere

else and because cash applied the

username the US gave the entire world

usernames and then I realized that every

society you know we celebrate these

great products but every the society in

the end decides what the products will

be and what it is for them. You know

what I mean? and coming back home to

Nigeria, right? It was then I realized

and I asked a big question. So what was

it for us? Uh and then we found it, you

know, and and that's sort of the things

that you learned from all of these

things, right? Is um you have to build

with the culture, not for the culture.

Oo, you you dropped some gems right

there. Um I I'm curious, speaking of the

culture, what do you think is unique to

us? like things that you still think

people haven't really solved or not or

haven't really thought deeply about our

culture. Okay. So, you know, there

there's a good example I give, right? I

said, you know, in as much as you go on

social media today and you see a people

bashing Euroba people, bashing Osa

people or bash and we even go I said I I

come I said Nigeria we have something I

called divided unity,

right? I call it I call it divided unity

and why it's

because when it comes to and we're

bashing ourel when next day chica and

are going to marry themselves right and

then let the Kenya person come after

Nigeria able

person the whole 268 ethnic group is

coming for you

um and we have and in that lies

something very very big and this is the

one thing that has broken Every

prediction that economics and the world

has had about Nigeria that divided unity

gives us a full sense of for ourselves.

Nigeria is the only country in the world

you do not have a job you do not go to

work you can live in bar

[Music]

island use an iPhone

6 and drive

anas because your uncle doesn't mind you

coming to live with him. M we have a way

of naturally subsidizing each other's

life.

That you will not find anywhere else in

the world. Interesting. If for every

Nigerian that you see to the smallest

level of a Nigerian, there's three four

people that they subsidizing their life.

And so that divides every economic

projection you want to make in

life because you have one cousin that

can reach out to you that says

AAI and you're going to send it, right?

And when you average just look at the

bank statement and see what they spend

money on, you see that 35 to 30% of your

entire revenue or money that you earn

goes to you subsidize other people's

lifestyle. And this you will not find

anywhere else. It's literally what has

power the country for the longest and

it's unique to us. And I keep saying if

somebody can build on this social

structure. See if you I when I sat down

with top government official and we're

talking about trying to empower 3

million people and that's I'm like no

you don't need to empower any of Nigeria

just empower 10,000 cons but one person

it just takes one guy to blow the entire

family has blown. No

and you see the structure in every

industry you know music industry it's

just one Davido but there's like 15 guys

around him every day. Most kids are

going to super private

schools and this structure is is huge

and I keep saying if we can build on

this then we'll find the gem of how big

and powerful our country is. We watch

out for ourselves like nothing else.

It's it's you know we everybody praises

the evil culture. It's not just of how

the ebo businessmen bring their

brothers. It's not just the evil guy.

It's it's across the entire formation of

how we Nigerians are. We look at guess

what even to your coral politicians the

guy is taking 50% of what is stolen to

subsidize life of poor people

and that's sort of what has sort of

helped the fragment of of of our country

called Nigeria right if we can build a

real system around this

irregularity would find something that

is phenomenal in this

and so now you speak about you built

products you've filled stadiums and

you've shaped culture right what do you

think is the the line that connects all

these things you do and what type of

legacy are you trying to build? I want

the generation after me to

say that build things that give us

permission,

right?

Um and because you know we're sort of

raised to always ask for permission.

We are raised to ask, oh, I want to do

this. And I'm

saying if we can sort of cross that

barrier where you always ask to ask for

permission to do things. You know I I

have I have one very rogue mantra that I

share with my friends. I say see don't

ask for permission or because they won't

grant you. Go and do it and ask for

forgiveness. You know what I mean? And

because permission doesn't come right

we've had to fight for everything that

we own today, right? And yes that's it.

I say I want the young people to say

this guys built a structure that gave us

permission to do whatever we can dream

of right and it's sort of how I see us

achieving that goal and it's what this

tiny social platforms are doing nobody

doing at scale right and and if you look

at every single product I sort of tried

to build that's what it is from MTM PS

back in the days it was a time where

we're all in school and we're young

students and I'm paying the same tariff

my mother and my father who is a rich

guy pays and I'm like no can create

something different and it was how we

created MTM pulse which was unique at

the time was the first youth product in

the entire country and what MT did

differently was that I said network we

can use your cell mast we all connect to

a particular cell mast right you can

know that all of us that live in this

region are students can our tariff be

lower you know and that gave permission

because then people now have no phones

that could use internet for the first

time people could open Facebook accounts

they could have WhatsApp um and it's

sort of how I sort When we built bedu

also the same thing before we built bedu

the music streaming app the only way

your music gets on a platform you have

to go through some big distributor or

lib is to sign you but we do a platform

that from your phone upload your song

and the world will hear

you right we put up billboards all over

the country and saying as long as you

can sing those billboards are for free

come into this building we'll put you on

a billboard and people will hear your

song and and I think that's it like I

want to say this guy built something

that gave us permission um to create at

no limit.

D let's go back to not just the

beginning but around the

DTI story right you had worked with Mr.

easy at the beginning of his career,

right? What can you talk to us about

that period of time and especially now

that this December has exploded into

this global phenomenon for the diaspora?

What does that mean to you now from both

a legacy and product perspective? work

us through how the word even detsy with

dirty wave and then now December evolved

you know you know uh I was at the gather

early in the year and someone very

influential in the ter was saying that

oh um you know seeing that death that

grew organically has become a thing and

I smiled I'm like no 30th December did

not grow organically it was strongly

engineered by group of young dreamers in

2016 you

Um Mr. was my very good friend and like

you said his career self started well we

were friends and you know when I tell

this story it's quite interesting when

easy started singing I did not believe

in the music

career because at the time it was only

started I was really doing fine I was

working for a company called 440 and we

had I expered in like 10 businesses and

of the 10 business we invested in he had

the best one that was really doing good

the other guys didn't have a chance of

being successful. The only way we sort

of defend back to our investors that oh

we have one successful guy and the guy

wants to go and be

singing you know and he wants to go and

be singing right and I know he come and

meet me that because I had my days in

telco we satus I love guys and like oh

dio I'm going to sing here I'm going to

do here go I follow him to studio

multiple times I'm like this guy focus

on the one that will give us money now

like this I know these music artist

these guys don't have money you know and

and he was hellbent on it and I remember

2016 and which is where you know when we

connect the dots is when you look back

and you connect the dot everything makes

sense that nothing no lessons learn was

a fluke um had to call out tons in 2010

then I met to right who was selling

phones literally and then who sings on

the side and then I remember I started

social betting literally patty bets if

you look at easy

today he's doing power pay and bet you

know bet power right Um, and I remember

him calling me in one money. If you go

on YouTube today, my first party bet

advertising ads, right? And I remember

him calling me February of 2016 and he

gets, "Hey bro, um, some guys invited me

to the UK to come and perform." I'm

like, "You that are still trying to get

your song to blow in Nigeria? Who is

inviting you to come and perform in the

UK?" That, "Oh, will I come?" I said,

"Come and with you?"

No. He left. He went and I remember him

texting me that night and saying, "Hey,

bro, they just paid me £5,000 to perform

at a club tonight." I'm like, "Wait,

what? Somebody paid you which song?" And

you know, I was like, "Wait, do you mean

it?" He's like, "Yeah, serious." I'm

like, "How do you know about the song?"

And he goes, "Oh, you know, iTunes and

Spotify where I've put the music and to

cut long story short, it was real." And

I remember him sending me this part

dance for me that became the global

eight. And I remember taking that song

trying to hustle the song. I took the

song to bank cuz banki ran one of the

biggest vast compi this song is going to

be a hit song you guys should give us

money for it cuz the only way we knew

how to monetize them was get money from

coll guys I remember bank stud and

saying you know and the song went on to

be a global that particular year had

gone to to do the roundhouse show first

Nigerian artist to sell out halls right

he did the place the in New York you

know how was it in Nigeria and we're

just looking at everything and we're

going to come back home I was like you

want to come and do a concert back at

home true story and this is how

disabired. Um that year 2016 where it

became a

sensation. We're going to go and do the

we're going to do this concert at what's

it called?

Um it was not landmark. The place beside

landmark. Um is it where the Chinese

restaurant is? Chinese restaurant.

Oriental. No, no, no. The Shiro Harbor.

We're going to do Adro Cafe because it

was a new artist. I wanted a small place

that just 1,000 people will be in and

we'll call it a day. Yeah. Right. And

then clay we went to adro we have

literally closed adro we have done the

wrecky the show will happen here we can

easily gather a thousand people in this

place so it will be a nice

show ad slide us for a bigger artist

literally that oh there's a big artist

wants come and use the place Mr. was not

big enough and then we're forced to go

to Landmark. Landmark was a big venue.

It was like, can we sell Landmark? I

remember on the same day of that show,

David had a show at oriental.

Really? Yes. On the same day, David had

a show at oriental. To cut long story

short was sold and for a lot of things

that became culturally style from that

show because we had tech background. We

had a guy called buyer who built Mr.

Easy.com. So we only sold our tickets on

our own website, right? We create our

own structure for selling between me and

you because we're not just we're

expecting just 1,500 people. So we

didn't put a cow to the ticket that

we're selling. The place was filled to

the brim that they almost shut us down.

We had over 3,000 people. I was there.

People were trying to struggle to gain.

It was ridiculous that they had

accreditation. And credit to Clay

because it was Clay that had to create

all of these matters at the time. And

that was the foundation of what death

sent by today because the crowd that

sold that show for us was the IGGB guys

who had listened to skin tight in

London.

The following year was 2017. At the time

there were only two big venues in

Nigeria. It was a hotel that could only

take 4,500 people and landmark that

could just take two five people. And

then we just did the math like we can do

more than this number. So mean that

there's no venue that can sell the

number of people that we wanted. And

that's what made us go to Ghana. Yeah.

And the Ghana story becomes more

interesting because now this is where

and HA became friends cuz HA was a

flutterwave and Flutterwave was trying

to enter the Ghana market. Yes. Right.

And the same emmo get us people and we

conclave powered our payments on the

site. We all went to Ghana. We took

Labadi Palm Beach which was a bigger

venue. It was a craze. Everybody was

coming. It's amazing that and that's how

dirty December started because it was

called dirty literally started on our

phone in the WhatsApp group called dirty

party where the mini party was called

was called dirty party Lagos because

easy had a saying that used to say we

say oh dirt was a slang he used to just

use right and then it was our friend

Meister a Ghanaian friend of ours who

said oh guess what let's call this thing

dirty rave

and dirty rave was a first

time African and diaspora were going to

move solely because of music to a new

location and everybody flew to Ghana.

the tech community at the time we all

went there it is there now we at the

gates

battling selling tickets it was it was a

crazy day and that sort of set the

foundation for December um and every

single person has worked hard to kept to

keep that culture growing you know h

went on to

start year of return right and that's

what and it was a group of young guys us

working hard learning it It was in 2019

after the year of return no 2018

precisely there was a problem we found

easier as something called empower right

because people came from tech uh

background right and the goal with

empower was that let's find creat new

talent like him that didn't need record

labels or big money to sort of become

successful um empower was beautiful we g

you know about 100 kids were giving

money but we had just one great success

story Joe boy

yes

2018 we had to bring in Ray Cross to D.

I remember. Yes. Because we didn't have

African superstars that could sell that

could sell large numbers.

Yeah, I remember that it was only David

and Whis. They were the big superstars

that could sell big shows. You had to

combine like three to four African

artists to sell a 10,000 show, right?

Because we didn't have the venue. Yeah.

So by 2019, I saw this loophole. I'm

like, wait, if this festival is going to

become a thing, we need to create new

artists. which was why we started bedu

create platform that allow creates new

set of superstars that can sell these

big shows luckily for Afrobate 2019 B

boy remmerance came back right and then

we started bed and I remember the first

group of guys I went to call was HA I

sat down let's go and do future fest but

then happened to us we posted and we all

kept strategizing to how do we move

people h is our cheap mover of moving

people here Because those tank clubs was

a huge hit. 75,000 people told you we're

doing crazy. Now I guess how do we move

and we all sit down and you know when

somebody comes and sit down all of this

type organically it breaks my

brain you know to 2022 and we looked at

escape again. I said let's do feature

first and then Bonab boy was going

crazy. Guess what? Let's do Bon Boy.

Yeah. And the biggest shows before us

were shows that happened inside a hotel.

A co hotel at peak is 4,500 people. I

didn't realize it was that small when

they set up the tables when it's just

the table set up that they do now. It's

2,000 people or 25.

Wow. And you know, and I remember we're

going to do Boner Boy. It was

myself Casey. Everybody thought we're

mad. And what year was this again? 2022.

Yes. Everybody was sure we're mad. I'm

like, yes, we're going to do 20 20,000

people here. Echo Atlantic. Echo

Atlantic was going to be a big show. And

we did it. There was a lot of

problems, but we did it. 25,000 people

in one place. It was ridiculous. Yeah.

Walk us through cuz again for our

listeners and for the viewers, right?

What are some of those production

problems? You and I know cuz we talk

about it, but even something like

they're only setting equipment where

there's only one equipment or two

equipment in the entire Africa for a

production of that scale. Can you inform

our viewers about that? So again, even

though we were dreamers and wanted to do

big things, we were incapable because we

didn't have access to the equipment. And

like what HS said, true story, a lot of

people remember the 2022 Boner show that

people wait had to be delayed for like 5

hours cuz we had audio issues. Fun fact,

Bon Boy acquired something called a digo

mixer console. There was only one in all

of West Africa. One one they had done a

show for a two nights before in Ghana.

Know what I'm saying? January 1st was a

Sunday. Yeah. Friday night Aphroella

festival they were using the mixer

in

Ghana. So they're carrying this mixer

around just this Africa

man they plus tickets.

They were using the mixer in Ghana.

Okay. We wake up Saturday morning. Bona

boys team missed their flight back to

Lagos. Back to Lagos. No plane to bring

them. And I remember I was going to go

and ask people that have planes to help

us move these guys in. They come in, the

mixer didn't come with them. Saudi, we

finally get the private jet to carry

them. The mixer didn't come back with

them. Sunday

morning, we had to fly the mixer from

Ghana to Lagos. Mixer is in Lagos.

There's not a single person that could

operate

it. And that same Sunday we have to fly

a guy called Dio from London to Lagos

to operate this mixer to come and help

us

operate the mixer. You know what I mean?

It's is really ridiculous. I just want

us to pause here cuz I think it's very

important because even when we had we

from Lanway, right, he was explaining

the intricacies of real estate. We we're

using this to explain the intricacies of

concept production in Africa, right? So

you're saying that there's only one

mixer at the time. At the time last

there was just two in West Africa. Wait,

why is there only two? I don't I like I

I'm not really clear on what what is it?

So because productions before we started

doing big shows, people don't require

this scale of Yeah. equipment, right?

But then we have the Bonham boys, the

Remas who are now performing on big on

on war stage. O2 and that becomes the

requirement. Yeah. You know, today what

do we do in Nigeria? Nobody does a full

live

performance that requires that much uh

mix production. You know what I mean?

Where the ones who say I say we're going

crazy, right? Um and so we're trying to

do things that guess what a good example

you know there's an old story of Chris

cancelling a show in Kenya. They didn't

have the production equipment. Why even

going to remember show last year in

Kenya? They have to fly the same device

from South Africa to Kenya.

Wait, how big is this device? I don't

understand. This [ __ ] is just so big

like this. Just this. So they're just

flying this thing around like flying

flying. This difficult thing is so

frustrating. Like and is it expensive?

Like why why aren't there more? No, this

is like just 180k.

You must sing song. Yeah.

And you know and and this just half of

the story. You know what I mean? I

remember the Bona boy show, you know,

finally get this mix. Walk us through

that night like how was it? Oh god.

First Bona didn't agree to do the show

until 19th of December because he was

also skeptical that are we going to be

able to produce this thing at the level

that he wanted and we kept promising and

he's quite particular particular and we

said yes don't worry we're going to do

this [ __ ] So 18th of December so we

announced the show 19 21 that's going to

happen January 1st show sells out shows

ridiculous the show sold out don't worry

it was a big deal 25k people even me I

was in right and everybody gets there it

all started smoothly we finally got this

guy that can operate dig set

up and then talent this way to the real

problem now if you look at the

production

u community Nigeria these people that

produce shows they didn't go to any

school to train to become from

electrical engineer. It's just some guy

who has been around for a while who just

draws

wire. So obviously there's this guy who

has been doing Tai Chi with the wiring

under the stage for the event,

right? And boom, Bona Boy has a 35 man

band that requires mics, right? Boom. 11

mic blew

off. Need concerts.

The madness was so real. So now there's

no mic for boner boys guys to come and

perform. So we kept stalling with other

performances.

Nothing was happening. There was a point

that I went off stage and people were

stoning me pure water. Me and Jimmy the

host were telling us P and bottle on the

stage. Bro, between me and you guys that

day was like [ __ ] Sorry for my for my

English. I'm

like, we had 100 tables set up. He sold

at 5 million

naira. I have 25,000 people in the crowd

who have paid for tickets. All my brain

was doing is how we going to refund this

people if this show doesn't happen. This

show must happen somehow someway. Fire

call everybody that we know. We found a

guy who brought this mics in for us.

Okay, you guys cannot sound check. I

promise you. Sound check started like

9:00 p.m. while the people were dancing.

That's why we started doing some rough

sound check because the device didn't

come in on time. We scaled through that.

Then I remember the boner band guys say,

"Oh, they need to go back to the hotel

and change." This was 11:00 p.m. Change

to what? Change where? There's no road

outside. There's traffic. It's going to

take you guys 2 hours to get back here.

And I remember we just have to find a

way. Three of them went to go and bring

what they were changing to. We had to

get we got Bona in Bon finally came in

this time five hours was

gone and I remember when Boner came in

and he held the speaker he was angry of

course right and you know a lot of

people blame Bon D night it wasn't

Boner's fault and I think for someone to

come and say for the first time right it

was Nigeria that happened to all of us

you know what I mean because Bona and

his team were ready

the the band had been on ground since

12:00 p.m. of that day, Boner had been

on standby since 7:00 p.m. We just kept

managing them, right? Um, and I remember

when Bona finally climbed that

stage and there's I have I'm sure I'll

share that picture with you guys to use,

right? Where auntie bos was changing it

for me that there's no way my son is

climbing on that stage. I I start I'm

your son too auntie this show must

happen and I was begging I was really

switching for like my son is not

climbing. I said ma I'm also your son

I'm going to be in

them and you know and we finally got

banners to get I said bro when boner

finally climbed on stage and he said

they call me ber ha the first

relief and mic blew between me and you

for the first one of the performance I

was moving microphone from a guy playing

trumpet and guitar so that okay let me

make the trumpet small let me

I was passing with my

hear man

but Bona gave Nigeria an amazing

performance performance like people were

happy in the end and then you know we we

scaled through and so yeah the

foundation problem is there um we still

don't have this equipment you know what

I Um I had to make the same problem last

year. This probably not the finish with

Remma. Oh uh yeah. But before we even

get to Remma, let's walk through each of

them. So there was Burner and there was

Shak. Okay. Shake. Yes. Yes. Yes. Cuz

that show was people loved that show.

But Shake was the next year. That was

the following. Yeah. So walk us through

the following. Yeah. So you know the

Shake show very interesting, right?

Um I remember my very good friend Alex

uh came

Alex managers reach out to me that hey

bro let's do a shak and because of

course I was part of the white bers has

been my family forever and so the shak

emergency I was part of it all happen in

front of us right so it was a great year

to see becoming a superstar I remember

going to meet my friend let's do your

own concert and said no let's do shak

instead right cuz I wanted to do grand

concert and he was like oh no that's

shak and Alex had come that oh you

wanted us to do shak between me and you

I wasn't trying to do shakm M right. I

wanted to do Remma

because from our prediction we saw that

Remma was going to be a global superstar

and you know it was going to be easier.

It was going to be easier to sell Remma

to the global audience and stuff that

year. So we're going to do Remma as

Nigeria we have it. Remma fell sick and

canled the show. This is a show that you

raised money from investors

at a very high interest

rate. So, and uh FX FX. Oh, very

important. FX cuz when we're doing this

negotiation, dollar was about 650. By

this time, dollar was already entering

9001,000.

And kid show because he was sick and

there's nothing. The kid was really

sick. Yeah. And then I'm here sitting

down called my partners and like guys,

what's going to happen? Are we dead this

year?

And I remember I picked that phone, call

Alex. I'm telling you, this was December

7. The year was already running out and

I called Alex. Alex let's do a shak. He

said how? I said let's do it. And I went

to meet day. We both went to day and

they said yes. Now the question is we've

spent money to try to doma. How do we

find money to do

this? And I remember I guess what I'm

going to go back to my bankers and again

you know there are few banks that sort

of supported us that understand this

right. um uh for shout out to them

selling providers bank and I' I've

worked in banking and provid bank saved

us that year between me and you in 5

days provid bank approved 500 million

for us to go and that go and ask anybody

that collect money from bank in Nigeria

without

collateral to go and do a shak and we

had to announce a shak and to be sincere

I think the ones that you don't platform

become the easiest a shak show was a

smooth ride for Right. It was really

good. People came out. It was an outdoor

show. So [ __ ] and that sort of gave us

it was a good it was a good outing. Um

we didn't have that much stress and

reason being by the time Ashake had his

own foreign production team that sort of

worked with us. So they had done the

flight time show. So there was a sort of

a template that we scaled up on. Um so

Shake show wasn't wasn't really of a

hassle but it was a good outing and

again good record. We had 18 16,000

people at Soul Beach. Um so yeah it was

it was a good one but it sort of sets uh

what that did for us was that it set the

pace standard for us that yes we can do

bigger shows and and we can make this

work. So then the next year now

following year let's go and do remma.

It's just it's crazy that there are some

things I cannot say on this

podcast because we're still in court. Oh

yeah. And you know we never talk about

these things right? you know um we're

still in court on the on the rema issue

right because things didn't go the way

we planned like I said we're taking

money from

investors year before and investors are

charging you I said that your interest

as times five

and FX as at 650 now naira dollar 800 at

the time

you know and you have a lot of back and

forth on trying to do the show um and

you have to just concede some things but

again when I see the Rama show and what

happened at the Rama show uh a testament

to what we've what was possible right um

and again I have to give credit to the

team because the team it was sweat blood

putting that stuff together so yeah you

have to give credit to the team and you

know when when you hear when the stories

are

deeper because you're trying to do the

impossible, right? Um remember in Benin

and you know 22,000 young

people, it was ridiculous. 22,000 young

people and you know when I was looking

at the stat and and I promise you 60% of

them flew in to Benin to watch. They

were not even locals,

right? The Remma show, Battle with Rain.

Uh but you land it, right? you come to

Abuja. Abuja was also a smooth ride.

Well, let's come back to Lagos. Cuz he

did three cities just for our viewers.

Yeah. Legos was ridiculous. And I

promise you, Los was ridiculous. Uh what

announced that drama show was going to

happen at Equat Atlantic. Yes. And then

they said we can't use the venue cuz

some consulate is building an embassy

and they don't want distraction and they

can't be

disturbed. between me and you

guys.

Remma who had finished Abuja on the 15th

by Monday morning Rama team said they

pulling out of the Lagos show cuz we

don't have a venue. The show was on the

21st. So this is 6 days to the show and

I remember because we're in Abuja 15th

the team had to rush down to Lagos to

start setting up for the 16th. So now

what's the venue we're going

to go to

TBS? If you're in Nigeria and they tell

you there's a show in TBS, you would

think you would think before you go

there, right? And this also now trying

to do the impossible, right? And I

remember staying back trying to convince

the team that guys don't worry, we'll

move all of Nigeria to this venue.

Um,

and we go back again. Digo, you see the

fear of Digo the mixer. D mixer is the

beginning of wisdom cuz they also has to

fly in from Abuja because I start use it

to do a show. Yeah. So the same con

we're going to use I start used it to do

a show in Abuja. So he has to fly in in

the morning to Lagos while we're setting

up. That's even half of the story. You

know this is a mega show. We had huge

screen requirement. Today I promise you

today nobody has production equipment

that can power. We cannot do the type of

scale that we had at the countdown. We

can have two of that in the same day in

Nigeria. It's crazy cuz there's no

equipment.

We had booked equipment to use screens

that we're going to move because that's

what happens every December. So some

guys are going to use the screen as one

venue because there's limited screens.

They're going to move once they finish

to the venue. So why waiting for the

screen that they were using at

um the the

the Jensen guys shows the one oh native

land native land

and that's the day that it crashed hey

so the team was waiting that oh they

finish native land we move the screen

next day same morning after the show to

DPS and then you get the news yeah GG

the stage had the stage has fallen stage

has collapsed and all the screen has

collapsed so which means no cream. Yeah.

And you go, "How the hell is this show

going to happen?" I remember God on the

day of the show 2 p.m. I promise you no

screen was

up. I remember they coming to say I shut

down the show. There's no way we have to

cancel. Me begging with my old age,

begging young boys who are younger than

me. I was begging with my old

age that guys we've gone through and

turn to get here. Finally, we found some

guy who has some transparent screen

somewhere and we moved it in. I promise

you remember show for people that came

early people say no

screen. But in the end was a great show.

Yes. Um and of course we're taking all

of these learnings right um to see what

kind of petitions are we going to make.

Um and luckily for us what we did in

December showed Nigeria that we actually

have a huge venue. Yeah. Because I

promise you, we know what we have to do,

right? Which I can't say on the

podcast, but not a single phone was

you know, I remember when the show

finished around 2:00 a.m. I was walking

down and I saw Jenz's fancifully walking

on the street of Los Island. I'm

like, this is the Nigeria we prayed for.

You know what I mean? Um, and yeah, it

sort of sort of set a new motion. Yeah.

Everybody believes now, you know. It was

it was good. Thank a very big thank you

to Lego State government. Um they were

really really it was a Lego state event

literally Los State own the concert at

the time. Um big thank you to them uh

for making that happen. Uh the state was

really behind us providing all the

security that we needed getting the

locals to cooperate with us. Literally

the guys that you talk called the thugs

that would attack you were the ones that

were security that did. They were the

ones in green. Um yeah. So it was was it

was a great one. It was a great one. Can

you expand for our viewers even the

technology that was used to process the

show? So many people might not know but

in that 2017 in Ghana or even 2016 the

issues of people in the diaspora they

used to maybe using event bright or

ticket master you pay for your ticket

you show on your phone you go in a lot

of Africans didn't necessarily have

those sort of ticketing companies on the

continent but since photo wave pay has

enabled payments and other payment

companies too now also we have ticketing

companies as well even bank transfer can

you walk them through the technology

leaps that have happened that even

enabled. For example, I know with Remma,

the only place to get a ticket for Remma

was Soft Life was softife.com, right?

And it was bank transfer that they used

to pay. Nobody could buy physical

tickets. It literally had to be an

electronic ticket. So, can you walk them

through the technological um

innovations? So, yeah. Uh I think that's

one of the things that sort of helped us

to do this things at the scale at which

you do it and I'll tell you that's our

secret source. um you know very far on

when I start when we started bedu we

knew that we needed to solve be a

technology that could power transactions

at scale

um and because it's really what we were

trying to solve for and we sat down

thinking okay what's missing right um

and I remember my our first experiment

because like you said if you remember at

flutter wave it got at sorry at dirty

wave it got to a point that you and I

were collecting cash yes for tickets

because network was down, people

couldn't access the site and we're

literally collecting

we were collecting cash, you know,

because people couldn't buy tickets

online, right? Um, and so it was very

important to me that we built a

technology that could solve that

problem. And so we started building in

2019 and we found what the problem was,

right? You know, when the pay when the

pay stack of and photo start, everybody

was focused on card payments, right?

I've always hated card events and my

reason being 35% of the time is feeling

right and one of the things I learned

from working at WeChat was when I was as

I said when I say earlier that the

social line that connected everybody

right I found what it was for Nigeria I

realized it was bank transfers yep that

you needed to build a social technology

it needs to sit 100% if you can on bank

transfer and that was the first layer

but then bank transfer had a major

limitation M bank transfers go through

nibs

nibs today or even the best payment

processor in this country can only do

160,000 transactions per second and for

our viewers nibs is basically like the

interbank settlement payment payment

layer uh and because how is built right

once transaction passed that threshold

things start going crazy and that's what

we witnessed when there was no cash in

Nigeria where everybody was now trying

to do transfer, right? And you know,

things were going crazy, right? And

realized that nobody had built what we

call a microtransaction engine for

payments, for real money payments. Uh,

and because Telos have had this for

years, which I said when you go back and

connect the dots, it all makes sense. In

my t days, even when the network is bad

and you cannot hear what the person is

saying, the network will collect their

money. You see that their one NRA, two

NRA cost, charge. Yeah. It will go

through. you will not hear the person

you be doing for 5 minutes or and like

there must be a way t are doing these

things and there was not even GPs so how

do we build and that's when we realized

we need to do the micro transaction

engine and today what is inside soft

life is something we call tutu and it's

literally the only microtransaction

engine for real payments on the

continent and can you explain what a

microtransaction engine is like I said

again today in Nigeria nobody uses their

phone or bank have to send 5 to some

tenant because then it becomes expensive

right nobody pays is 15 with their

imagine if for that time you have to buy

coke or pay a water the only way you use

back transfer don't we're going to be

[ __ ] because that too much

transactions right so our our systems

today can't power microtransactions

right and for us to be able to do a

concert of 100,000 people that be buying

water and drink and want the economy

that's around that concert to be fully

digital we need to be able to process

that transaction at that speed so we

have to build this microtransaction in

2016 right today it does 2.2 2 million

transactions in 1 second.

Wow. Right. Not just that and again when

you use soft life it's built on back

transfer also and we have to look at the

loopholes within back transfer. There's

something interesting that we do and I

say this when you look at our soft life

app and you want to fund you can only

fun back transfer. If you transfer to

the soft life app your money lands in

500 millconds. M

and people and someone has asked me how

are we doing it and I say yes we is

still nibs it's just that we're doing

nibs the different way so instead of us

waiting naturally how everybody builds

is you build and you wait for that

transaction to come and you take the

notification no we don't we have a whole

engine that is sat down connected to the

bank that is firing a million requests

every second looking for transactions

that unique to us so from when the user

initiates the transaction of all waiting

for API to send it we've picked Yeah.

And so that way we're able to make

things work faster. So our big strength

is the technology. And if you come to

any of our concerts, the only way you

get in and get out or buy water is

through the stuff like

So can you walk us through, you know, I

think this is going to be an evergreen

episode. I think it's an episode that

people will watch for years, right? But

we are going into Deuti December

2025. It's going to be crazy. It's going

crazy. It went viral viral everywhere to

the point where people from not even

Nigerians, other types of, you know,

people are coming to Legos. They're

announcing it. They're making it known.

What do you predict is going to look

like? And what do you think where do you

think we have to go to really

accommodate daddy December?

Um I think the first thing we saw for is

infrastructure. Mhm. And the biggest one

is road and transportation. Yeah. If you

look at every December we had the issue

has been transportation and access to

the places. Right. Um and I think this

year is going to be more interesting. Uh

luckily for us we have a Lagos state

government that is very very uh

acceptable of the youth um and they're

working really hard right the state is

put a lot of measures into place to make

sure that this death is going to be

crazy right um a good one is what

they've done with lag ride right um as I

talk to you right now there's I sure I'm

sure there's about 3,000 new brand new

cars that the state is bringing in to

power mobility for people in December um

they're doing all the major roads that

access to the important places that you

need to go to also right once we can

solve road and transportation uh it

becomes a lot easier um and we're

working with the state to deliver a

great experience

uh there's something that's happening

this year in December it's something

myself is called for years and I think

Nigeria is getting coachella uh we're

announcing that very soon it's going to

be a big deal it's something I'm sure

when people see it a lot of people have

been asking me that are you sure it's

going to happen I'm saying yes it's

going to happen um this is like 5 years

of planning Yeah. Um and yeah, I think

we're almost there. Infrastructure,

international infrastructure

development, right? Uh because today one

of the big limitations is when everybody

comes, everybody's in VI,

right? Um if we have more facilities and

experiences that people can sort of

explore, uh it's going to sort of change

things. I think this year will become a

huge learning curve for us because this

year we're expecting our biggest

visitors yet. Uh we learn the patterns

of how they interact with the culture

this year. Yeah. M and it helps us plan

better next year to scale right but yeah

it's infrastructure literally what is

lacking is infrastructure and when I say

infrastru

um we have to give a big thank you to

the guys that own Airbnbs last year

and we don't give them credit cuz they

saved us

you can say whatever we don't have

hotels in Nigeria to think that all of

Lagos is just Mario hotel that is the

highend hotel because there are some

hotels I not mention their name here you

can't tell me that's Wow.

I know the word you're saying. I know

the what you're thinking. The OVI

there's no real hotel.

You know what I mean? Um and these are

areas we sort of need to look around.

More infrastructures. Uh yeah, the MB

structure is nice, but we have more big

infrastructure that can contain people.

Um a co hotel can't be our only a hotel

is our biggest event. 4,500 people. That

bothers me every time. 20 million people

sitting. That's what I was about to say.

university right I know few people are

building stuff now there's a 10,000

capacity that is being built by Palm

shopping mall someone else is building

one on the Lagos calaba express so

obviously this things is skaen step by

step we're going to see this progress

right but yeah we're in a good place um

and I think this is just going to get

better from here

and even I want to talk about as well

with daddy December outside of music do

you think there's other areas that we

still need to tap into that our culture

you think has like great opportunity.

Capitala fashion. I mean I mean like you

know um our fashion is getting so and

you know again one of my premise also

and prediction why I took music in 2019

was that I said our music was is what's

going to carry everything else that we

have right and which is why I was really

bullish about pushing the music also u

because our music going to push our

fashion it's going to push our movies

and I think the next frontier right now

this year is fashion um movie has

started getting attention maybe another

year or two it'll get there. But and if

you see what people like Dilab is doing,

um, and the numbers that DAB is doing,

right? Um, and seeing our Nigerian

designers, I was looking at the AMVCA. I

like wait competing with Megalo cuz I

was like, are these really Nigerian

designers? Yeah. And I think it's time

we pull focus on fashion. Yeah. Right.

And intentional focus on fashion, right?

Our music videos are being watched

everywhere in the world. Um directors

now should be intentional about

showcasing Nigerian fashion in these

music videos. It's going to help us a

lot. U but yeah, I think the next step

is fashion um and in our food,

right? Uh kudos to people like who is

creating the local food properly. We

need more of this, right? And I think

the music because imagine

uh Bonab boy sold out uh Chaz the go the

stadium in Paris, right? Start the

France, right?

Imagine 80,000 people getting introduced

to Nigerian food. Yeah.

Nigerian fashion

outside. Nothing beats that. Yeah. Rama

did the same thing in New York. Imagine

those 16 to,000 people get introduced to

our fashion and our music and our food.

It changes the ball game, right? Yeah. I

think we just need to be international

about how we collaborate um and manage

these different industries. But yeah,

definitely our creative economy has has

a high chance and Nigeria has the

attention. You know, there's a huge part

in notice in the last four years. Every

major blockbuster movie that's come out

in the last two years as a lead Nigerian

supporting character.

Okay, explain.

One of the biggest movies this year was

was Sen. Mhm. The babe. Yeah. Nigerian

was a not Nigerian character was a

Nigerian. She I hope was the a Yuruba

that she didn't seen us. Um there's one

that just there's a new series on

Netflix right now called Bet. The sub

character is a Nigerian guy. When you

find when you see all of these movies

that have been coming out, there's also

there's just one intentional

introduction of a Nigerian sub actor.

Yeah. Who is playing a Nigerian

character.

So we sort of gotten the world's

attention. the world is trying to fuse

into what we're doing and trying to

include us and we need to exploit

and not let them exploit us

right um and we have to be very

intentional and and I and I think that

we're in a place where for instance one

of the things that we fought for in the

music music industry is already

happening the next frontier is ownership

u social platforms are sort of giving us

right to own today right and you see

what our content creators are

Nigeria sort of defined Nigeria is the

only place where I see a global movie

superstar or a global Nigerian superstar

doing Tik Toks kit to promote his

movie and you know you see people laugh

at it and I'm saying it's the Nigerian

way. Yeah,

it's the Nigerian way.

I promise you what the skit guys have

done from themselves. I've not seen it

anywhere else in the world. M the what

the skits guys on our on our social

media content creators content creators

have done I've bro I've watched I've not

seen it anywhere else in the world and

you see that even a few guys in the US

are trying to do they're trying to

collaborate actively with our guys

and and the [ __ ] is happening

drastically I was talking to a friend

and I remember back in the days of ad

agencies right you hear that an an ad

agency got the right to do MTN for a

year and it's two billion

Nobody's paying that money to anymore.

The money are going to content creators

now. There's this kid that is doing

crazy on the internet. Uh his name is uh

Huh. He did he did a very popular ad

with I know the one you're talking about

the Yeah. Yeah. With um he I think it

wasn't sprites but it was in driver in

Driver. He did one recently. It was so

good, right? And skits and the quality

is so good, right? And I'm saying that

decentralization is happening. Yeah.

You're seeing the same in the music

industry. Nobody cares about record

labels anymore. Yeah. Artist now own

their own masters and music. They just

sign distribution deals. Um so we're

getting to where ownership is going to

be very important. Right. It's just that

our country and at scale. We just need

to be very intentional about who build

today. There's no infrastructure that

allows artists to earn and control their

money. We have to rely on the foreign

ones. We need to be intentional about

how we build. Yeah. You can't have drop

a video and 6 million people are

watching it in one hour and you don't

make one hour from it. Yeah. That's the

story of Instagram skim because actually

no you know what I need to double click

in this thing because it's actually

crazy when you started talking about the

skits and promoting movies literally

last night I was telling etch that I

want someone to break down this thing of

you know it's like a pipeline like

either they maybe they went through BBN

or you know maybe they're just an

influencer and they start creating

movies on YouTube right and the reason

why you know it started blowing my mind

was um I saw this Uch Montana. She has

literally Uch TV on YouTube and

literally like it looks like every four

weeks she's dropping a movie. I'm seeing

BAM's she's you know like cuz cuz I

haven't seen her in like a movie on

Netflix or in a cinema in a long time.

So I was I was like but she's 3 million

followers. Like her her following is

super engaged. Like what is it? And then

I took a look and I was like oh she has

BAM TV on YouTube. So literally she's

like making local Nigerian movies on

YouTube, right? And she has a whole

audience. So can you talk about that? So

you know and this is again the Nigerian

way and I said the people decide what

they do and what technology is for them.

If anybody ever told you what YouTube

was and how come YouTube superstars is

maybe guys that game or do some kind of

funny stuff but it's not the case for

Nigeria. is what you've said own

videos and because if we go back and

it's nothing new we all grew up on home

own videos Nigerians don't go to cinema

Nigerian was watches own videos and

because all our superstars that we call

superstars that we call the Ram what

they were making were own videos was a

movie that will be produced very shabish

quality some distributor guy in Alaba

the CDs out and boom

But then cities died.

Home videos needed a new home, a new

platform. Ah, it just clicked for me.

You're right. You're right. Videos, we

are not cinema going people. Let's call

it a spade. Nigerians don't get this

thing. But you see Nigerians, we can

watch home own video like is no man's

business. And so YouTube became the new

home for own videos. M

you know just something just unlocked

because I was just like it's the own

video culture like six like I went to

this girl's YouTube channel 6 million uh

she just released it a week ago. You

guys guess what I'm sad that nobody's

getting how ridiculous that [ __ ] is.

Yeahum and she's making crazy money. Let

me bring the number to you. Yes. They're

not even making the money they're meant

to be making. First you I was on one of

the Euroba guys won and this movie has

6.4 million views. Let me tell you how

ridiculous that is. The highest grossing

cinema movie made a billion. All right.

Billion. A billion naira. Okay. Billion.

Okay. In Nigeria, right? The average

cinema ticket is 5,000 NRA. So if my

math is still good, for you to sell a

billion at 5,000 NRA, maybe 200,000

people watch your movie. Yeah, that's

grossing.

A YouTube movie. Go and check on YouTube

today. This YouTube home videos, you'll

see 4.3 million views. I promise you,

nobody's watching that thing twice. Cuz

it's data we're talking about. Yeah,

exactly. This is a 1 hour for seven long

movie. Nobody's going to watch the movie

twice cuz data is expensive. So, I'm

saying those movies are doing 6.4

million unique viewers

times

5,000. Imagine they could just monetize

and quite 100 NRA for

watching

quiet everyone's calculating

just 100 yes you know what I mean um and

is is where we have to start thinking

about these things right YouTube won't

understand this cuz what YouTube is used

to is kids who are doing

but that's become the new home for the

Nigerian home video culture. Yes, we can

glorify our cinema movies as much as we

Nigerians are own video people. We want

the movie to be as basic, as comic, as

funny and relatable as

possible. Wicked auntie four girl

falling in love.

Simple basic

story. I we don't talk the YouTube

numbers are ridiculous. That's why I say

say your highest grossing cinema movie

did a billion. That's just 30,000 people

watching in a 200 million people

country.

But there are movies on YouTube that

just casually in one week doing 4

million views. Yeah, it it cuz you know

it's so I need to like go down this

rabbit hole because I was really trying

to understand it like I see these people

all across you know Instagram and they

have millions of followers and then when

you go to their YouTube you do the math

like there's a whole economy happening

there. They're not they're not concerned

with they're making some money. I'm just

saying the economics is because they

have to now rely on the YouTube

economics, right? Which is not good for

the value of what they're creating

because of CAC too. You know what I

mean? C T C T C T C T C T C T C T C T C

T C T C you know what I mean? CPM CPM,

you know what I mean? Um if we they can

figure out a way to monetize that and

which is where platforms like YouTube

also need to start rethinking of

building version of their products for

regions. Yeah. With how our region

works. Yeah. Nigerians would

conveniently pay this money. I'm talking

about trust me because Tik Tok shows us

that it is possible

right um and and again we have about how

I looking at it a few of us are trying

to get things done to see how we can

sort of build build for this structure

because of course the foreign guys come

just come and give us products but we

decide that we use it trust me the own

video on YouTube is is 10 times bigger

than your cinema economy it's crazym M I

mean I've always said that like as

Africans we're great at creating value

but very poor at capturing it right and

I think this is where sometimes the

infrastructure especially with the

technology enables us to capture it. the

Chinese seem to have figured out a way

to capture the value that they create

whether it's from Sheen Teu uh whether

it's even Badu or WeChat right we're

just talking about WeChat what are some

things that Nigerians can learn from or

even Africans can learn from the Chinese

especially in how we build products that

allow us to capture the value that we

create because 4 million views in

Nigeria should also be 4 million views

in the US right but obviously they have

what YouTube says is well the

advertising ing the monetization

disposable income is higher. So this in

a way actually prevents us from tapping

into the financial freedom globally. So

how should we think through building for

this sort of problem as well? Um so

again like I said right I've seen a lot

of great products come out of this

country but what you find is that the

products that we've still follow the

foreign templates some guy just see a

foreign version of an app and think that

oh come and build a Nigerian version for

it and then it fails right um which is

like say we don't we should stop

building for the people we should build

with them with them right and building

and today I think no don't try to build

our own YouTube. I think it it would be

a foolish way to go about it, right? But

we understand what our payment and

collection, how it works. Can we build

payment infrastructures that

intentionally YouTube can integrate to

and solves this problem? Yeah, I promise

you Nigerians will conveniently pay 200

NRA for this YouTube content. And reason

being I've seen been in sittings with

people saying that oh they need to build

more cinemas and my brain breaks every

time I'm like why are you guys always

thinking in reverse because how many of

you went to cinema before silver bed

what's going on here

it's true it's true we our culture is

own we are own video people

and why because

convenience the convenience of watching

own video on your TV on your on your

iPad and guess what? A lot of people

that build technology also live in

Lagos. So they delusional cuz Lagos is

not Nigeria.

Chica once you leave Lagos that's where

Nigeria starts from from Mo. You have

entered Nigeria which is a different

place. You know the goshians just down

my road is a cinema fancy one that I can

go to. I can afford it. These guys don't

even have lights.

But guess what? You see that their phone

must not die.

You know they die. Yeah. And guess what?

In that 1 hour at night when they are

home where they have on their

small pass, my neighbor Jen, they will

watch that thing on their phone. 1 hour

47 minutes. They watch three to four of

it. And I and we have to be intentional.

So saying build new payment rails,

create policies that enforces that these

platforms connect to it. Don't worry, we

don't need to earn your dollars. Once

you can end our own Nigeria economics,

it will work. Yeah. And then policy

level say that oh our creators this is

the model that we want you guys to sort

of employ. Um that's that's one step to

it. Um also creators be very intentional

right because I'm saying if you pick an

average Gen Z today and I say pick an

average Gen Z and Gen

Alpha their screen time is 13 hours

minimum daily. They spend you can you

guys can go and run this search find any

gent around you pick their phone and

check their screen time is minimum 13

hours

daily these gent spend 13 hours on their

phone out of 24 hours let me tell you

what their real time line is so 13 hours

on their phone there's 24 hours in a

whole day so out of that 13 hours

there's how many hours that's 8 10 hours

left they sleep for 8 hours don't worry

they don't play with that sleep they

don't do 5 hours like us they sleep for

another 7 to 8 hours let's fix seven so

guess thought 7 hours they sleeping 13

hours they on their phone the remaining

4 hours is food and whatever is seems

important so why you been in

cinemas they don't have TVs I was

talking to an older friend of mine I

said his kid came back home and his own

mind was trying to impress his child

went to LG to go and buy a big LG TV and

put on the wall said the boy comes

carries the

TV and drops it outside and the said why

do you think it's taking

I like how the space is

minimalist. Um, and you know one of the

things that baff me about this is that

ask any Gen Z and please they should

comment if I'm lying for them to eat.

They need their phone to be watching

movie. Mhm. That's like Is he Gen Z? I'm

a Jenzi. You see that food they about to

eat is not going to go without them

watching something and it's not TV. So

why are you trying to create a reverse?

If you have 13 hours of somebody's

attention, build from there. Build from

there. You do remember Quibby when they

tried to do Quibby. Um Disney try to

create this um you know Disney the

former Disney workers tried to create TV

shows through Kirby, but they wanted to

limit it to like maybe 5 minutes or or 6

minute movies. I don't think the thesis

was wrong in terms of this reverse we're

talking about. Maybe now the

implementation, but it goes back to what

you were saying, you know. So again,

don't revent the wheel. find something

that is normal to people, right? And

just build it with them, right? If you

look at the equivalent, the content

that's crazy in somewhere like the US,

it's things that like TV shows. Yeah.

And because they they have a huge TV

show culture. Yeah. Right. That's why

Mr. Beast is big. That's why the MP boys

are doing it has to be a show. We don't

have a show culture. Wait. So, what is

our culture? Cuz I actually want you

with this Gen Z and the 13 hours, where

are they spending their time? Which

platforms? What are they looking at? And

I I want you to if you can um tell me

what women Gen Z are looking at and are

aspiring and what are the men Gen Z

looking at. Also to add to that, can we

also talk through the data set about I

think me and you talking about is from

2018 to about 20 how many young people

in Nigeria turned and what age they

turned to? Yeah. Um so first to take HS

question first, right? You know what's

really interesting that everybody miss

right is between 2018 and 2023 46

million Nigerians started dating. 26 46

46 I okay cuz sorry the reason why I was

remember when I said to you I used to

feel like I used to come to Lagos and

there were six degrees of separation

between me and whoever I would know at

some point from that 2018 you're seeing

new human beings pop up and you're like

wait who I was question where does all

these kids on Instagram come out from?

Yeah. Like boom, we seeing hundreds of

them, right? That's what happened. 46

million 46 between 2018, 46 million

young Nigerians turned 18.

There a lot of girls I meet today and

I'm talking to are like, "Oh yeah,

you're bring your biggest influencers."

In 2018, they were still minors.

They were 16, 17.

Um, and which is a really huge number,

right? Um now to what they do Tik Tok

Tik

Tok I I was checking one uh kid's phone

and in that in a week right I was

looking at her screen time she had done

she does an average of 5 hours on Tik

Tok daily

and it's all kind of things but when you

streamline it so based on the social uh

group that that child belong these young

people belong belongs to what they

consume is different, right? Um there

very fancy ones we just want to hear and

but guess what? But you find something

that is

core gist,

gossip gist, can be foreign gist that

some people are interested in what

happened between Joba and

this. But it is in the end gist.

Gist as a service. Literally if you look

at what they watch on Tik Tok is that

Tik Tok is gist. So people like tell you

this is a gist. person said this one has

opinion on what happened to this person

or this person have married this person.

When you look at the events that become

get

various gossip, yeah, the weddings that

recently happened and everybody has

opinion on what this person is wearing,

they just want to everybody has opinion

that they want to hear,

right? And I guess and it's the same

thing, right? Um the the few ones who

have figured out how to monetize it, but

even the ones that become popular, they

became popular because people can g

about them. But what are they I'm c What

are they gisting about? Cuz like back in

the day I felt like there was real gist.

Like now it just feels like oh so and so

is friend or like it's nothing. Yeah.

Yeah. It's it's and when we look at it

this thing is not new. It's culturally

indepth into who we are. Yes. So let's

go back to what are the biggest blog

book shows and things that people used

to watch back in days of no internet.

Right. There's something in southwest

that is called a guy called

Kola who used to have a show called your

back will know this was the biggest show

on radio and what the guy does just come

and give gist about people's weird

behaviors some mystical happening

somewhere and people now have opinion

about it if you look at radio stations

that al to today talk shows stations

like Nigeria FM and

Wazobia is just the biggest tabloid that

were printed back in the days

also was ovation because ovation is

giving you view into what is happening

rich people and everybody said ah this

person what this here this person did

not greet this person it is just who we

are and you find the same thing blog

what's the biggest blog in Nigeria

what does K do

just everybody everybody who has done

anything that is not gist in blog What

does Bill do? Give you gist. And it gist

is not a it's like a Nigerian word like

it's not a word.

Who want that room in Nigeria? Nigeria.

Shade room. Shade room. Shade room.

Shade room. That's true. She said I

bring to America

globally. And is it we are you know when

I try to look at this Tik Tok guys.

Trust me it baffles me every time. Like

I'll just see them scroll. I'm like so

okay what are they talking about? Before

you know you're in their gist.

Guess what? Why is big also because they

can gist about what has happened in the

house. This person did this person and I

just follow you just want to follow gist

of somebody else. Is that why Snapchat

cuz Snapchat uniquely is big here? It's

not I feel like it's not the same in

other regions. Um yes but again Snapchat

is powering something else. Okay. Well,

[Music]

our our Nigerian men private economy

for those who know for those who

knowing expiring something else you know

what I mean and guess what you see that

the world is not using the people that

use Snapchat in the world don't use for

that they use for just sending private

messages and privacy but Nigeria know we

know what's

sparing that's what I have to say

um but yeah Um, like I said, that that's

the pattern. Nigerians just like I'm a

ball. It's true. It's true. It's true.

It's true. It's true. Nigerians just

like I'm a ball.

And you think it's I mean I don't know

if it's unique to us, but it seems a

little deeper. Okay. So I I look at what

other people Tik Toks are doing. Right.

Go and look at global people that are

big on Tik Tok everywhere else in the

world, right? You find that either maybe

a beauty influencer or a fashion

influencer or a comedian very few

comedian in Nigeria is that we can g

about

you like you're giving us drama and

guess what

right there's this guy that nobody talks

about and to just butress on this gist

right portable there's nobody that can

sing four portable song for me nobody

there's nobody in this

that can come and say you can sync four

tracks from portable but you know that

guy experience J is always giving you

guys

gist the guy will always be in your face

he must be g if he's not fighting police

was beating someone and he's a musician

nobody know song you know what I mean

and it's because what interest Nigeria

guys like this other guy who is always

on that just give people things to talk

about Nigerians don't hear their opinion

right um And that's what sort of powers.

And you look at it's the same pattern.

It's the same thing that made Nland

Narland back in the days. True. True.

Gist. True.

True. We like gist. Yeah. If I It's

actually now that I'm like really

reflecting on it, every major era in

media was like some gist just guy guy.

And it just it's like different

variations.

Even weddings. It's the gist. It's the

gist. It's not it's the gist that oh who

was there who came who did not come this

person is fighting this person it's the

gist nobody remembers who the designer

was when you're looking at is the gist

what happened there who fought who why

did this person not greet anybody this

one did not come you know and is is who

we when you understand this basic social

powers the economy yes and that's what

powers the economy but actually just to

just to I don't know because this is

very interesting to me um and I know

will probably have a different question

but let's say I'm a young gen influencer

as a woman and I want to tap into what

you say. What would you do? What would

you advise?

Uh jeez

though and and guess what I can give you

right apart the guys who became

successful from big brother once you

leave and there's nothing to gist about

you gone you have faded

right and guess what if you look at

people that become sensation today they

are the people that give us g I don't

want to be mentioning name so that I

don't become popular unnecessarily but

if you guys look at female guys, female

celebrities. There are people that have

anybody to become a celebrity in this

country. You are giving people things to

talk about. Just look at it.

So if there's no drama in your life, you

cannot be big in this country. Even our

biggest celebrities, there has to be

drama.

The music guys. Yeah. Yeah. There's

always drama. There must be something

once there's nothing to talk about. They

won't even remember that you sing.

It's true. It's true. That's why what's

his name? Kubana Priest. That's why he

always is giving a show. You have to You

have to There has to be some drama. Give

guys something to talk about. Um it it's

what it is. Whatever you want to do,

let's just be something. If you are not

making them laugh, give them gist.

Okay. Funny or give them gist.

Let's transition. So Olumadesh, one of

the most respected angel investors in

Africa, names you as his top founder in

the Nigerian tech ecosystem in his book

and you not just mentioned your number

one. One question, what did it feel like

to read that right? And then two, what

part of your journey did it bring back

to you? The early risks, the moments

nobody saw, the nights you almost quit,

and how do you carry that kind of

recognition now, especially in an

ecosystem where founders rarely get

their flowers in in public?

uh you know uh first I don't really read

books and I remember that it was my

friend oh it was it I was like funny

enough I was at the book launch

and

because is someone that I think that we

don't give enough credit for what he has

sort of done in the ecosystem uh didn't

know me from anywhere when I met him in

2015 and then he we had this idea of

patty beds and it was like oh and they

took took all their money and then we

should go and take this risk

Patty Bets wasn't successful, right? We

failed at some point. Well, guess who

gave me the first investment for my next

venture

literally the next venture I go and meet

him say, "Okay, guess what? I'm not

giving you the money in the product, but

I believe that you're going to do this

right." Um, and you know, seeing someone

like me, they just mention you in that

way. And you know, and I and I remember

texting him that, oh bro, thank you so

much. Like if anybody told me write

that, that means someone is seeing what

you're doing, right? And because this

building thing is really hard, right?

It's so hard that we don't talk about

how hard it is, right? Um you're giving

your life to build something that

matters to people, but then you lose the

things that supposed to be important to

you, right? Um you know, I've I I'm

still going through my own fair, losing

loss once to you wanting to build to to

a cost. I saw given to yourself right

and you know and if you see anyone who

is building and who is genuinely

building please hug them I promise you

they are going through a lot you know um

and to not even give up you know it's

Nigeria gives you a reason to give up I

see a lot of people come to meet so many

times with the things that you've put

your hand into you should have a unicorn

by I'm like it's not a sprint to it's a

marathon right um but Yeah.

Um it's it's interesting to see being

recognized and you know like nobody has

first everybody knows I don't like to do

interview. This is the first time ever

I'm going to sit on any form of

interview or talking. I don't like I

avoid it as much as I can. Right. I just

want to build and yeah seeing few people

recognize that yes there's something

that we're doing. Uh yeah it sort of

gives you reason to want to do more most

times. Yeah. Yeah.

Actually, you know, speaking on

building, I want you to talk about

because you're doing some very

interesting thing around these concerts,

these productions, soft life. Is there

kind of the next phase of it? Um, do you

see yourself even maybe exporting some

of this?

Um, I think those things will happen

naturally.

Um I'm I'm very strongly convicted that

if we can win here and I said win in

Nigeria would win globally, right? Um

and and the data is there and and I've

been shouting this for as long as I can.

I remember HA was here when I said let's

bring this thing away from Ghana and

bring it back home. Oh, the boys are

Nigerians. Can we bring it back home?

And my reason being I think Nigeria is

the future of everything

and the pattern is just there for also

it's just there. The US government is

building our largest consulate in

Nigeria in

Lagos. That should tell us

something. The whole world is going to

move to Nigeria. I promise

you Nigeria is a cheat. Nigeria cheats.

I repeat, everything you've ever been

taught in economics or econom in in

building Nigeria cheats it and once you

can just understand the Nigerian way, it

becomes ridiculously different, right?

Um and Niger Times projected that Niger

population will be 100 million in 30

years and they're not lying. Uh

Bloomberg also said that we're going to

be the fifth largest economy in the

world in 30 years. It's it is true. We

are the next

frontier and the moment we build and we

win here, it's going to happen

naturally. Our values are going to get

exported. We're going to power might not

power other countries but we'll power

cultures in other Yeah. in other systems

also, right? But the real goal is win

here. Yeah. Yeah. So the goal is maybe

in the future, but I'm not the guy who

is thinking of trying to launch a

version of our app in Ghana. No, if we

can win here locally, we've won. M yeah.

But you know, another thing I want you

to speak to, expanding on this is um so

I've been the same, right? I came back

in 2015, build and failed. Build and

failed. But I've always been convinced

that there's something in this country.

There's something. The creativity, the

hustle, it's nowhere else. It's

unmatched. It's unmatched. Like

literally like I just think about even

our conversations like I could drive

down to your office, sit down for with

you for a few hours and you're going to

spark things in me. I can't think of

that type of behavior in any other part

of the world. Right. So what can you

tell our listeners about why you are

particularly so excited

about building in Nigeria? Like what can

we look forward to? Cuz to be honest

again, you say, you know, Nigeria cheats

economics, but people still feel like

I've built, I've tried. I know plenty of

people who built and left. They've

japad. So what are you seeing that other

people are like, ah, I've tried though,

I'm gone. Um, and I call it there's no

rule in

Nigeria. There's literally no rule. And

let's call it call it what it is. And

because there's no role, it allows you

to create at no limits because a lot of

these other countries again and because

of it's just how Nigeria sort of be

designed. Nigeria is the only let me and

that opinion is ridiculous. You know

economics and all these financial things

break logical things but there's

something that is very illogical about

Nigeria. Nigeria is the only

country. You guys take a stroll down to

the streets of mainland local streets

and you see people that they don't know

where their next naira is coming from

and the argument is about how their

Lamborghini when they bring it to the

streets. A Nigerian who has no money to

it believes that he'll get 100k tomorrow

and I promise you he's going to get 100k

tomorrow from thin

here. It only happens in Nigeria and

he's not doing fraud. And again let's

let's understand this right in other

cultures because guess what it is true

that somebody can just call him tomorrow

and he will make a million era from

somewhere you only find this thing in

this country right and because you know

as much as people think that we're

scattered people we're united like we're

so we're divided I I divided we're

connected in in a very crazy way that it

will break your brain

And again, Nigeria is designed for only

Nigerians to win. You see the things

that you see in other culture where you

hear that, oh, some Indians are now own

all of the real estate in London and

some people own, Chinese own. It cannot

happen in

Nigeria. Only Nigerians win in Nigeria.

Go and check all of history. Nobody has

ever competed compete against Nigerian

business and won Nigerian business. has

never

happened. If you think you want to win,

you have to become Nigerian. Ask MTN.

I'm telling you, it took MTN to become

Nigerian.

If you guys go back, before you know it,

they've given them one 5,000 bill 5

billion fine. But then they became a

Nigerian business.

And because the way our forefathers was,

I don't know how they did it. Nigeria is

just designed for Nigeria to win. Um,

and your best chance of becoming

something or building or getting that

it's going to be hard and it's going to

be a easy Nigeria and everybody's saying

it. Everybody's saying it and it's

because we just in a in a in a weird way

watch out for oursel I give example to

people. I said look at how beautiful

this country is. My house I have and we

all grew up like this but we don't

appreciate the beauty of this. In the

house I grew up

in, we had a driver a gas

Sunday. Poor person what drove us to

school. But because of how we are, these

kids can come to our house. Mhm. The

kids got access to fancy things. They

mixed with us, right? You don't find

this in other culture.

You don't um I went to a government

school where the child of the carpenter,

the child of the governor, the child of

the king, we're all in the same class.

No matter the hierarchy of your father,

your father must drop you at the gate.

You will walk in like the poor man's

child. Your driver can drive in. Um, and

today we all have that

driver, that cook, that chef that's

getting access to, that's getting

exposed without having to pay for it

because they they're around us. Um, and

is a big part of what threatens

our h us as a people. And if we can

build on that, we'll become unstoppable.

And the way it's also going right in

another 101 15 years we're going to be

the third largest diaspora number in the

world

which sort of takes our strength up

right um and everybody will want to come

back and get attached to their roots cuz

in the end there's nothing like home no

matter how high you socially climb in

this society you still want to come back

and the jack wave is going to start.

Yeah. And so where do you need to build

when people start coming back? Which

where are they going to leave? People

are going to come back at light speed

and you guys can test it to this cuz you

guys came back. Yeah. Yeah. Um so it's

Nigeria. The answer is the answer to is

Nigeria. It's the next See, they've

exploited everything that can be

exploited in the world. They've

exploited the Chinese culture. I'm

telling you guys, they've exploited the

Chinese culture to the end. We watch the

Chinese movie mash heart. Korean has

been sold.

They've baptized the India culture given

us yoga and everything. the next

frontier the Africa Nigeria Nigeria

precisely no it's true it's true it's

true I mean if you if we start and we

have to be intentional so that we don't

lose it yeah it's true is also I think

for me I came to appreciate the

demographics how demographics can really

be destiny because 200 million people

and it's meant to be 400 million people

if one out of five or one of five people

in the next couple of years it's crazy

yeah you know and if you look at the US

and it's it's getting more and more

stronger. Every single person you speak

to, they know one Nigerian at least. And

and it's not even just black people,

white people, Asian people. If you bring

up, oh, you're Nigerian, they'll tell

you, oh, I knew so and so. Oh, my friend

from D. But also I think can we talk

about how the internet played this huge

role in this too because it sort of

democratized a lot because before there

were a lot of gatekeepers whether it was

in music whether it was in movies and

and I guess my question is really center

around the intersection between culture

internet technology. What does that

thesis look like for the future? Because

right now our oil is spoken for uh and

what do you call gemstones and minerals

are spoken for. The one thing we still

have that gives us leverage globally is

culture, right? How should people be

navigating that between the culture, the

internet and the role it's played so

far? Um, yeah, like you said, right, we

have to be intentional about it like I

said earlier, right? And by intention,

right? Intention, I mean fusion.

The answer is fusion. Fusion. Okay. We

need to start fusing our culture

with other culture. And if you look at

even biology is the easiest way to grow

and propagate.

We need to simplify the things that seem

really hard in our future in our in our

culture and fusion it with what other

people can understand. Yeah. And it's

what people like Bonai is doing with the

music. Yeah.

Pick the sound that they know, fuse it

with the afrobe sound. Boom. Global.

Tony Braxton. Last last. And we have to

do that with everything. M you do not

grow by trying to stay in a closed

circle. For you to really grow, you have

to allow to fuse with other things. So

you can leave parts of you in these

things. Um and so your future is the

answer. We have to be intentional about

how we fuse our cultural from beliefs to

religion to food with other culture.

It's the only way we are gonna have this

whole takeover that we were talking

about, right? Um but more importantly um

we have to also be intentional about the

things that we build.

My friend was talking recently somewhere

and he was talking about how oh

Nigerians are not uh creators and we

shouldn't bother trying to build great

infrastructure and a lot of people

didn't understand what I was saying and

I'm saying yes he's not wrong. I don't

think anybody should try to build a Tik

Tok today. Okay China you've built Tik

Tok. We found how Tik Tok work for us.

Mhm. But these are conditions on how the

tick like what the European Union

bullishly does with other the moment we

become intentional about how we fuse our

laws morals into the version of this

products that we're using here then

there's nothing miss can achieve.

Yeah. And it's actually easier to have

those conversations with those companies

than saying, "Oh, let's go build because

that ship has sailed, right? That ship

has already sailed." So now integrate

with our payment solutions. If it's 100

naira, if it's 200 naira, it might not

matter to you as a platform, but it

makes a world of difference to to us

here, right? And then this is how you

can get our people out of poverty at

scale. Yeah. So now it's time for our

rapid fire questions. Okay. So whatever

comes first to mind go. So what is your

first concert that changed your life?

Life is easy 2016.

Let me say easy concert.

That concert was it was it was the

foundation of everything. Wow. Uh a

product you wish you built.

A product that exists today that I wish

I

built. Facebook. Facebook.

That's a good one. One Gen Z habit that

fascinates you.

How they retire from work every two

years. These kids actually

go, "Bro, I'm I'm telling you, I've met

two who say, "Oh, guess what? I'm

retiring. I want to just travel for the

next one year." And I know four of them

right now. Wait, what are they retiring

to? What money do they have? I'm I'm

telling you. I don't know how I I know

four. Is you I'm talking about you one

of them.

Brilliant. This is a brilliant

distinction young lady working for a top

government

UK government precisely. Wakes up one