Mind Body Session 4 of 4 with Dr. Dan Ratner & Diane L.

hi i'm dr dan ratner today i'm here for

my fourth session with diane as we wrap

up and talk about action steps it's

always a little bit sad getting to the

end but i do treasure these times

together and i can see how much she's

gotten out of it and i'm gonna hear this

last step now and see where she's at and

make a plan with her to move ahead

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diane it is a pleasure to have you here

as always although it's always a little

bittersweet that fourth session

um but i know that you know the way that

we interact will will be interacting for

for life so yeah

i

and i'm really excited because you sent

me an email talking about some of your

successes and i actually thought even

before we dive into action steps would

you mind sharing just a couple of those

yeah not at all um

well what i did is i shared with dan

some of the things that have happened

with my family um this week that really

triggered me

and um noticed that my pain flared

flared up quite significantly

um so just working through the columns

and working with the

you know

going through all of the steps and and

looking at things

and um

i it wasn't it didn't seem all that

dramatic but

then i went off and did something else

and i was in the garden and my pain was

quite flared up i was lightheaded and

all my symptoms were there

and

i came in from gardening and i thought i

i don't have any pain

this does work it wasn't like one of the

other things where in the midst of a

flare-up it stopped right then and there

it just gradually dissipated and i'm

busy doing other things and i was like

wow

this absolutely works you had a you had

a way to frame it to yourself that yeah

it really worked i think i had worked

through the doubts and i absolutely know

that it was tms but this week it um

there's no doubt there's just no doubt

that it is that's the idea of crushing

down so that's great

okay so listen normally when we

uh do an action step session

i might run through a whole bunch of

different action steps but

you've done some pre-work which as you

noted nobody should feel pressure to do

it this way but this highlights

something that we don't get to see

necessarily in every session because

you've done

some work in advance and so we'll

utilize that

so you identified the action steps that

kind of jumped out at you most

yeah

and um and then you also wrote your own

kind of versions of them you took the

headline of them and made them your own

is that right

yeah i did and

and

between the time that i sent those to

you and now

um i don't know why but all of a sudden

one of nelson mandela's quotes came up

and i don't know if you are familiar

with his quote about success about

um our deep sphere is not that we are

weak that our deepest fear is that we're

powerful beyond belief

and it just kind of hit me and i thought

yikes

um

so i think that will be included in my

action steps too that it's just

looking at um as we gain our power that

there's some fear in that and

um but it's possible yeah there is and

that nelson mandela quote was actually

brought to me by a patient that i've

been working with for many many years

so so i love that quote um

and as she watches this she'll be

thrilled to hear that quote again

so let's talk about what you're gonna do

because you've got

first of all let me remind everyone out

there that what the action steps are is

they are action steps of thinking more

than anything else sometimes it's a you

know a physicalized action like resuming

normal physical activity or don't test

things like that

but

mostly it's action steps of thought

and

each action step is meant to target

one of the columns

so usually i have uh action steps that

are like these are my emotions action

steps these are my

doubt action steps these are my power

action steps but sometimes they're also

just

an action step that covers all three so

as we go through the ones that resonated

to you

we're gonna we're gonna keep honing this

plan and you may find that you got this

list to get i think you have 22 of them

today

you might end up honing them down or you

might say you know what this one can be

combined

and the reason i say that is that you're

developing your own system

within my system right

yeah so

uh let's look at the let's look at what

you have so far

so i'm gonna read through them

and i want you to tell me what you're

thinking about them so

first step you have done is resolve all

doubt or confusion which of course

if you want to resolve the doubt column

absolutely so should i read what you

wrote or do you want to okay i'll read

what you wrote and then we'll we'll go

from there

you say i think i have resolved all

doubt except for feeling that i can turn

this around so level three doubt

but i am seeing that this seems to be

pretty common which it is

but i'm and i'm also seeing so many

others are getting better so i can too

i'm also starting to have some successes

so good

what you might add to you don't even

need to add to this but i just want to

highlight certain things

one success does lead to another

two successes leads to even more because

you know it wasn't a fluke yeah

so you're going to keep building on your

success and that's how we get where we

are it's kind of like

you know

a professional athlete or a professional

musician they get better and better and

better what they're doing they they

didn't start off

being able to do what they can do now

yeah

right

um it also is very common to have doubts

about the self that's the level of doubt

that lingers the most

and it leads right into the power column

and the power column is where you'll get

your answers so let's talk about the

next one

i've had a doubt that my experience in

my family of origin was not actually

that bad and lots of people had it worse

than i did i've had this fact reinforced

by many people but i keep reminding

myself that my body does not lie yes

thank goodness

my body is telling me otherwise

i had parents who meant well were

unskilled and came from their own

background of trauma i did not have to

blame them but i am starting to set much

firmer boundaries with my family

good

this is good you're resolving that

conflict because otherwise that conflict

lingers and doesn't allow you to assert

your own power to accept your trauma

you did have trauma dan

you know you did

yeah and just um

the things that happened last week not

big deal things but stuff that came up

for me

um

setting boundaries and again noticing

what happens in my body and you know

heart palpitations and feeling

lightheaded and thinking

if this was just someone i knew in the

street i would have no problem at all

being assertive

so my body's really telling me something

there and it's like okay i can do this

nicely and i can say what my boundaries

are and guess what it worked well and

this is the trauma of family life is

that we feel the stakes are so high yeah

we don't interact with them like other

people yeah

okay so um

the third one you're asking yourself the

question and this and a question can be

an action step do i feel i'm able to

live the life i want

just by asking that question

you can start to move into other

solutions so you say no i haven't

because of my health and pain but even

though i'm 68 i intend to live my best

life from here on and hope to help

others do to sort this out early in

their lives so there's a there's an

action step that has two parts to it

you're going to

figure out what the limitations you

might have are

but you're not going to give yourself

extra limitations right

absolutely not and in fact you're

recognizing sometimes the limitations

are ones you're

maybe imagining or worried about as

opposed to what really is yeah yeah

we'll have to see what that is in

addition

this second part i would say is kind of

moving towards your purpose

and again you get to organize this any

way you want it doesn't matter what i

say about it it matters that your action

steps are organized around things you

can actually think about or do that get

you out of the trouble

and it sounds like you're doing a great

job with it

all right four

tms has been a communication to my body

for the painful feelings of not feeling

seen appreciated in love for who i am

within my family and feeling judged

i have the message now

the only thing i would add to it and

this

it's really you're already saying this

is

i will always take my body at its word

oh yeah that's that's a good you already

know that but i just want to add it

because it's

we want the action steps to really nail

something

okay five

power can be in relation to the power

dynamic between me and others yep

i think i have a fairly healthy

self-esteem and for the most part i can

be appropriately assertive with people

but i've not been able to be with my own

family of origin always the scariest

but i'm starting to set much firmer

boundaries and noticing when i find

noticing when i find this heart and what

happens in my body yeah just what i

refer to yeah so here's the thing i

would i want to get a little bit more

honed about this

um

when you set the boundaries what is it

you're doing do you do you do self-talk

to get yourself

to do it do you how do you think through

what the boundaries gonna be

do you have a way to do that

um

i hadn't really thought of it as being a

process i think it just

kind of pops into my mind and

again being the goodest i try and think

of

what's the nicest way of doing this and

how can i

do it in a way that's not going to flare

things up okay so

here's the thing

ask that question but i can hear the

question that's getting left behind is

what do i need

oh right okay now i understand you're

setting a boundary so it is partially

about what you need

but you might need more

you're going to have a tendency to set a

very s

kind boundary a soft boundary and the

kindness is good

but the softness might be hard

yeah that's a funny way to say it

softness might be hard

um

do you know what i mean it's like yeah i

do maybe you might i just hear something

in this where i'm like i'm not i wonder

if you're going to look out for yourself

enough

well i

as i've discussed with you i have a

family member that

i

i can't just be kind i have to just be

firm and look out for me

and

it's taken me quite a while to get to

that point that

sorry the kindness

i i wouldn't be mean i'll be appropriate

but yeah sure

and

kindness isn't going to be the first

okay so just make sure and this actually

leads into the next one goodison versus

power yeah we want the you just got to

get the balance right yeah there is a

there is an answer

that can be kind to the other people

that can make you feel that you're that

good kind person you want to be

but also doesn't compromise you yeah

yeah

good

so you say in goodison versus power i'm

comfortable with power as long as it is

used for good and not harm both for

myself and those around me that's great

i am very triggered by injustices in

general in the world and i think it has

been from my own experiences of being

treated unfairly

sounds about right i have been known

many times to defend the underdog

well i'm a cleveland sports fan so i'm

not going to argue with you there i

always like the underdog in movies

i think

a thing you could add to this to make it

feel even more aligned with you

is that

you're not just going to defend the

underdog but you're going to also

include you in that oh okay yeah you

know what i mean yep absolutely

yeah because i have a good guy

yeah

you're the good guy in the story

okay so here's an action step you said

you're going to recognize every flare-up

you get through makes you stronger

and you said i agree i'm not there yet

but i have had a few dynamic shifts that

make me absolutely know i am on the

right track so

yes

people shouldn't just

feel that they've got to just trust me

you know it it's more that

you got to see it yeah

and you are seeing it and and the more

you see it the better it gets and just

remember when you

when you run into a situation where it's

not happening the way you want you're

still working at it

but you can always look back on your

successes

say i remember that time

when my heart was racing and i felt in

danger

but i settled down talked myself through

it

it'll never be harder than that first

time

yeah and um for me that time it was the

pain as well and

i've always gone to physio and it went

over the edge where i thought okay here

we go this time i am going to have to go

to physio

but through that whole process you know

that's when i thought no i'm going to go

out and garden and

do whatever this is mind body and

came back in and it's like hey my pain

is gone i don't need to call my physio

right so another way of putting that is

you didn't give in to fear

normal physical activity you challenged

the the illogic of it yeah i mean those

are three different action steps but

they're kind of all rolled into one of

what you did

yeah you're gonna go ahead and live your

life so

however you categorize this that works

for you as long as you understand

what it is you're getting at when you

look at this and you're like yeah that's

right oh yes

that's how i came up with my action

steps list it's all the things that ever

worked for me but i got very specific

about it to lend these ideas to people

really i could probably sum it up in

maybe 20 something like that 15 to 20.

okay here's another

you are planning to take back the power

in your relationships

this is obviously a power column

uh

action step you said i'm starting to do

this

treading carefully with a sibling as we

are co-caring for my elderly mother yep

so i do not want to create a lot of

drama in my mother's last months however

i have been setting much firmer

boundaries and have been getting

pushback from it but i am okay with that

yeah see one

i mean this is another action step is

try not to be so afraid of the anger of

other people

when you're doing something that is just

okay there's nothing wrong with it

what i like that i'm hearing here is

primarily that that you're giving

yourself room for that but it's also i

hear that you're not having to change

who you are

you do not have to sacrifice who you are

you want to be kind to your mother

in her last months yeah that's important

to you too

yeah so you lay out your the different

things that are important to you on the

table and that will tell you okay if

these things are out on the table i need

to do this

and the other thing with that is in

terms of my sibling

you know the worst thing that could have

happened would be

an estrangement and

limited or no contact well that has

happened

and so i think

and hopefully this will help other

people i have survived that i've done

everything that i could to try and sort

it out so even if it is a worst case

scenario

um

we will survive

yeah and you know what i just want to

say there there is a worst case scenario

there is a an even worst case scenario

which is

let's say

you avoided the estrangement but you

felt betrayed and unsafe

that's worse

that's actually worse to be able to have

the peace with yourself that you did

your best

yeah you did everything you could yeah

well you're what you just laid out i did

go through that for a while

um

so

a long time yeah yeah

yeah so that's why i'm saying it because

you know it was worse yeah

yeah

but you're

i love that statement i

i did what i could

there are a lot of people who say that

kind of thing and they're using it as an

excuse

to say i did what i could i don't need

to look at this

i don't have to worry about that with

you

you go above and beyond to try to do it

so when you say you did your best we

know

that's you finally giving yourself some

peace

there's nothing you could do about it

there's some

there's some disappointments in life we

cannot avoid and you no longer are going

to work and beat your head against a

brick wall

yeah and last week we talked about

rumination and you

you had made a suggestion

which was so simple i think how how in

15 years should i not think of this

but it's really worked for me and you

know through the week as

stuff would come into my thoughts i'd

think no i'm diminishing my own power

here and i don't need to do that anymore

so rumination

rumination is a diminishment of your own

power yeah

right so

thank you for that because that's really

huge

actually i'm even going to write that

one down

because

it's it's an important it's an important

one it's a

and it's going to help a lot of people

and you'll remember i came up with it

with you well um you know interestingly

people have said to me

and and i hear it with other people as

well just let it go and i think

why do people say that because if you

could let it go you would

but

phrasing it the way you did

made the difference you know slight

shift in the wording you didn't ask me

to let it go you just pointed out that

i'm diminishing my own power and um just

staying in my power

right because there is there's no

there's no upside to letting it go that

just feels like surrender or

not in a good way

yeah

and it's self-betrayal to do it that way

what we really need to do is get it

reclassified

yeah

yeah exactly get it put in the right box

yeah if you're going to put something

away you got to know where it goes

yeah exactly right

okay um

choose to value yourself at the highest

level i love this one this one everybody

needs to do do not accept people in your

life in any deep way who do not make you

feel good about yourself

yep

i've been starting to do this over the

past year myself

actually over the last i'd say a couple

years but you're you've been starting

over the past year

the few relationships i have that mean

working at it

i am just walking away from you know and

i i

i'm sure you're willing to work at it

but not if they're not working at it

also

and if they're not valuing you if you're

not you say if i'm not treated with

respect then i walk away from the

relationship now

exactly

and you know what usually happens is we

we kind of almost back ourselves into a

corner of confusion where we say well i

don't know maybe they didn't mean that

or maybe i'm over interpreting it

there's nothing complicated about it

people who are good to you

it's very clear

right from the start there could be

misunderstandings but they get fixed

yeah with the people yeah exactly with

people that are willing to work at it

they'll they'll see that there's

something going on and be willing to

work at it yes exactly and these aren't

my words but i love this line um i'm

just not willing to settle for the

emotional crumbs anymore you know if

that's all people are willing to give me

then that's okay but i'll just step away

and i have a big enough network that i

don't need that no nobody ever went to a

crum restaurant yeah so nobody wants

that yeah that's great yeah so and that

is that leads us into this other one

being fiercely in your own corner you

say yes yes yes

um i think it's really important you

know we're we're on this journey of our

ourselves i talk about the power of

aloneness and

you have to

you have to be in your journey

you know you don't have to forget about

everybody else that's not what being

fiercely in your own corner means it

just means

i matter

to me

and i'm going to do that

yeah yeah any anything you would add to

it in terms of what you understand of it

um

no i just like your line with that and

um i've been using it a lot with other

people as well crediting you

even if you didn't but i'm just i'm glad

you're using it that's great

okay accepting the trauma fully you say

i think i have finally accepted this

that is huge i mean when it comes to

emotional peace this is incredibly huge

everybody has to accept their trauma

fully i think i finally accepted this

and instead of focusing on all the

stories i can i can now put my energy

into my passions and moving forward with

life i'm now trusting the message from

my body

i couldn't put it any better

this is what the symptoms in the power

column this is the communication

they wanted you to finally mourn your

losses

to recognize what you went through

so that you could then enact

the great stuff that's in you

so yeah the best is yet to come i think

for a lot of us there there's a place

where we do

just want to tell our stories over and

over but it doesn't help

there's a place where you want to be

acknowledged but when you're still doing

it years later and it's the same old

story you're not moving forward

well especially if you're trying to tell

it to people who aren't listening yeah

you know like you you told the story to

me and i'm listening

and now you're listening even more so

yeah i think in a way

your story finally did get told

yeah and um

that validation which i really

um

i just am so happy that you were able to

hear what i had to say because i feel

totally validated and that's part of it

that's part of the healing

yeah

yeah and i just want to i do want to

highlight this because people go to

therapy for years and years and years

looking for the validation but the piece

that gets

missed for a couple one

it doesn't get specific enough it

doesn't get to the core

it doesn't capture that broadness and

the specificness at the same time yeah

yeah and it also

there's a lot of focus on just telling

the story

as opposed to shifting the story to a

powerful one

yeah exactly yeah

and i think we've done that and i'm

i'm proud of you and i think

this is this work has been

great uh and i hear how much you're

really integrating yeah yeah

okay so you said uh wreck

this is another one that jumped out at

you because when i when i often say lo

look through the action steps let's it's

exhaustive but

there's there can be even more than that

but there's a lot you got to pick out

the ones that resonate for you and this

one did recognize that i had no choice

in the defense my unconscious mind chose

you said this is helpful as i have seen

myself as weak in some areas but i am

now working on my many strengths

i have a close friend who i really

admire and who i've always felt really

sees me

and has told me many times that she

feels i am the strongest person she

knows

i will focus on the feedback of close

friends like this instead of all the

other messages i have received

yes

i don't accept feedback from anybody

who's not in the inner circle

i mean i'll think about the feedback for

new people

but people who attack me sometimes and

they don't see the best in me

that's like listening to a doctor who

doesn't understand anything about mind

body yeah

there's no re they're not a trusted

source

no reason to give them that power and i

think it's great that you're not doing

that

i love that you're accepting who you are

and that includes the defense your your

unconscious mind chose because as i said

the people who choose this

defense

it's a very high level defense it's a

very considerate defense

you did a great job

and of course i didn't know that before

and so you know

one's own belief my belief and then the

belief that

we're um we get feedback for is that we

are weak or weak in some areas and i've

certainly had my share of that but i

don't believe that any longer

at all

yeah i actually don't believe

that the way anybody is is a weakness

it's you know it's a trait

yeah and it means something and it often

comes out of some kind of strength

actually

you know

maybe somebody that's okay maybe

somebody is um

like able to hyper focus but it makes it

so that they miss certain cues yeah so

what you know let's all

if we can all stop judging

ourselves

then we can stop judging each other

because

um

this is a complicated line people say oh

they're doing their best

but that's not actually always true

but with somebody like you it is

you know a goodist or somebody who

takes this the the

semanticizing uh defense as their

defense

they're doing their best

you know and you can feel good about

being one of those people there's many

people who are really doing their best

there's some who aren't and you will use

that line of oh you know we're all doing

our best

not everybody is doing their best that

cheapens the whole experience if you're

gonna say everybody's doing their best

that means somebody who's doing a bad

job is doing as good a job as you that's

not true

yeah

and i think the the people that do do

their best i know when i'm not um

i i know i do better so yeah me too i

don't always do my best but

i do have the goal

to always do my best and i do try to

hold myself to that standard yeah and

you probably are accountable when you

don't

i i certainly try to be yeah um you know

it's like when people apologize

even even if i feel that the other

person was also in the wrong i don't

bring that into my apology

because that's not me doing my best yeah

me doing my best would be to say

here's what i know i did

and i am sorry about it

yeah

listen there's no butt

yeah

yeah

okay now you mentioned rumination um is

as uh as doubt is that takes you out of

your power so we already covered that

one um but i'm glad that helps here's

another one do not take on internally

what is happening for others

okay as a very empathic person i do have

to constantly check these are diane's

words i do have to constantly check in

that i am not taking on the pain of

others which i seem to automatically do

yep

i can be there for others with the

awareness that i do not need to also

take on their pain that's right

we can be loving to other people and

there for other people

without

falling on the grenade all the time

and this comes from a strength remember

you're deeply empathic

there's nothing wrong with that some

people will say and they've said it to

me oh you're overly sensitive

no no i'm not

um i'm more sensitive than other people

in a good

way but my core narrative and my whole

sense of self i'm gonna find that

positive way of looking at me

not just like as a trick of the mind but

because i'm right

yeah actually is good

yeah okay you you also listed view

trauma not as something that makes you

weak but one that makes you feel

significantly stronger okay so these are

from the action steps i listed and then

diane has commentary on

you said diane i have learned a

tremendous amount

and have gained many new skills because

of the trauma i experienced and i now

have the ability to turn this into

something good

absolutely

oh listen this whole podcast comes out

of my trauma if i didn't have that

i really wouldn't be much good to you

guys

maybe maybe i could be in some other way

but not in this way

you know the trauma is is what makes us

who we are yeah

yeah and then and that'll go ahead

well we all have that possibility of

um using it to to do something positive

whether that is helping other people or

or

what however that looks we have that

opportunity

yeah that's right

okay next one identify when you are or

are not in trauma

i've talked about this i just talked

about it in the seminar today i was

talking about that you got to recognize

the the signs of being in trauma

and they're all most of them are body

signs

you know and you're saying my body truly

does tell me what's going on the past

couple weeks you're starting to see this

and to nip it in the bud by paying

attention to your

body it can be things like

i'm not seeing as well or i can't

concentrate as well or i just feel

anxious or icky or

you'll feel it in your body

trauma doesn't feel good

and there are many times where i don't

even realize what the trauma is but i'm

like i'm in trauma

and the more that we do that

the more we learn to recognize it and

the less deeply we go into it actually

well and interesting that you say that

because i i've experienced that too and

not necessarily

um to me in direct correlation to

something that has just happened

um i'll start having you know some

symptoms lightheaded or headaches starts

or whatever and i think

i can't i can't be in trauma now and i

think no i am okay so what's going on

and then

using your columns to go through it and

go okay well what is going on and i

think oh it was last friday that's what

it was and i've been thinking about it

and yep yep

so

you're letting your body

yeah sorry no no go ahead it's just it's

not always immediate it it didn't happen

it didn't necessarily

relate to something that happened 10

minutes ago sometimes it can be you know

a day or two before yeah well sometimes

your body can basically be like hey

diane you've been in trauma for three

days now hey can you recognize it yeah

but you're learning to trust your body

it's so much easier that way

you don't you don't have to question it

it is right it's right all the time yeah

yeah

and so you don't you don't have to

be left wondering all the time meanwhile

i also hear another thing which is

you know you make sense

you know your body makes sense these are

all other ways we could talk about

action steps you know that could be the

one that jumped out at you but you're

capturing the ones that work for you

okay keep all of your power

working on this one

i am beginning to see the many ways that

i do give power away yes i'm definitely

a goodist

a two on the enneagram a people pleaser

but i am not a doormat you never struck

me as that so i agree

my action steps will be to focus on my

strengths and develop them and start to

identify when i give my power away

this is great because you're recognizing

that you might give your power away but

you're not giving your power away in

recognizing that you're

you're not saying i'm terrible i give

away my power

which would be giving away your power

yeah yeah

you're you're instead saying okay

everybody gives away their power some

which they do

now you can start to recognize it

and you can start to not do that so much

there is a big difference between being

a goodist and giving power away

yes yeah

that's where buddhism and power are not

at all mutually exclusive

oh good i'm glad i see this on your list

use your aggression as fuel

because you're such a nice person i want

to make sure that you have

that aggression as fuel in there

somewhere

i have a lot of anger with a family

member and that person's spouse and

children journaling about it has not

worked for me it is not it is not a

repressed emotion right because you know

it and writing about it is like

vicarious trauma and just puts me back

into trauma good i'm glad you're

recognizing that

it's not

if it's not doing anything for you and

it's just making you relive hell

you don't need to do that

but redirecting this anger into helping

others and supporting people like dan

and his work is a way i can use this

anger in a positive way and lessen the

negative impact on myself exactly

the toxic abusers i've had in my life

i take them with me in my mind

and i go to the toxic abusers in other

people's lives and i s not to those

people specifically but to the people

who are being abused and i say hey

that's not okay for you i don't want

that for you

and i fight for them

you know i i i i

i said i i put out that that um

podcast on

narcissists and how to get away from

them

that was me channeling my aggression

yeah

yeah i was thinking of certain people

you know but not just my people

all of your people yeah everybody's

people

because we've all experienced it and

it's not fair

well one of my big fears was that i have

so much anger that i think

what am i going to do with it am i going

to live with this for the rest of my

life so this is kind of like your

your doubt suggestion on rumination um

right

i've got some way of dealing with the

anger that

i i don't have to go and pound on

somebody or yell at them or whatever

that i can

use that energy and um just

uh channel it in a positive way and

um

just get that energy moving and you

don't have to compromise who you are

it's just

you're right this is exactly like

recognizing that rumination is a

diminishment of power

anger is generally seen as oh my god

it'll just do bad things there's nothing

good to do with it

to recognize there is something good to

do with it

that's important for people like me and

you yeah because who wants to go around

feeling angry all the time it's just fun

yeah

and and certain and also we

people who are good as they do the last

thing they want to do is

hurt people who don't deserve it

yeah exactly yeah and when i say people

who don't deserve it i don't mean that

lots of people deserve it there are some

people who deserve a good you know

boundary let's say

yeah

but

i love to use

aggression to get for the right things

okay recognize your own agency

as you put it i am not helpless i can do

this and i can do this in my own time

there's a lot of gifts in there

to the self

you know there's a lot of good self-care

okay get attention off the symptoms i'm

working hard at getting out and doing

things in spite of symptoms and

gradually becoming physically more

active good this is all

there's a couple of action steps in here

there's resume normal physical activity

there's maybe

this might be in there think emotionally

not physically

that can help you do that

but

getting attention off of symptoms is all

about the power column

it's just go be powerful

go do your thing

you know instead of worrying can i

garden go garden

yeah exactly and enjoy it yeah

all right we have two others and then

we're going to start to talk about the

plan okay because you already have it

mostly down but i just want to see where

we're at

dealing with the isolation of tms or

mind-body issues

as you put it very few people in my life

truly understand how much i have

struggled and suffered

but i am pretty good at recognizing

suffering in others and i will use my

strengths to help other others through

their own journey it really helps me

heal for my own emotional pain

helping others great so you found a way

to channel this

yeah now meanwhile not only did you find

a way to channel it but actually

you're less isolated

yeah

yeah you know you've you've got your

community it's it's our community

yeah which is another reason i built

this

it's a community for everyone else but

it's also a community for me

yeah

yeah

and it sounds like you're doing much the

same thing you know you're

you're using your strengths and helping

other people and that's probably helping

you a lot too

it absolutely is and it's

it's affirming my view of the world also

you know i wanted to know there is some

world where there's a lot of goodness

where there's people like me who really

do want the best for other people i'm

not trying to say i'm so great um

no and it doesn't

really good

yeah but there's lots of people who are

really good so i'm not distinguishing

myself from them

however

there's lots of people who are not so

good

and i think it's best that we find the

people who really value each other and

who support each other i'm gonna do a

podcast on this idea that

in comedy there's a rule that uh the

first rule of improv is always say yes

well that's also true of emotional

openness of vulnerability

always say yes

if somebody's brave enough to open up

like you're being here

i'm not going to say no to that

yeah never never yeah

yeah and we help that way we're the ones

who are saying yes to that and that

means we're valuing it

so i'm glad to have you here with me now

oh this is i didn't expect to see this

on your list i'm glad

success is revenge

i love this

uh you said i love this this just feels

so much better than negativity and

ruminating

as things come up i just remember this

line and i find it really shifts my

attitude

that's great can you talk about it a

little bit what you're thinking with it

well um back to the

the rumination and the anger

um i do i do feel like i want revenge

and and all of a sudden there it is you

know success and i do love it it's just

like this is so simple and it fits in

who i am as a person

it still fits on me being good and kind

and

being um

helpful to other people and being

successful and

that feels like revenge and i love it

yeah and it's interesting because you

know there's certain words that you

wouldn't associate with goodism

power

aggression

revenge yeah exactly that doesn't

initially sound like oh yeah this is a

really good person but

yeah if it's channeled the right way

yeah if it's done for the right reasons

it's good

and and you know i i do

i feel really good about the fact that

you are

getting

uh revenge as success

because you you deserve it you've been a

good person your whole life

you haven't gotten everything you needed

but now you are starting to

yeah and it doesn't matter to me um what

the people that i need the revenge

towards think right at this point it's

um

what they can think what they want but

my success will be my revenge and

wherever they are is fine yeah i think

you'll appreciate this but i um

the people i wanted revenge against

just like you're saying their opinions

don't matter

your opinion matters to me yeah much

more than theirs because your your

opinion's worth it

there isn't they haven't even really

begun to engage in the things that they

need to in life yeah

yeah

it helps me um

have a little more compassion for them

as well and

i think that's um

steps towards forgiveness whatever

forgiveness means to people

it doesn't let them off the hook but

right it lets me

help see where they are in life and and

what makes them tick and and then

they're on their own it's i'm not going

to try and

help them or fix them or whatever i

think that's such an important point

actually let me let me just highlight

that the idea of forgiveness is not

they're off the hook and now i will go

back to helping them

the idea of forgiveness is really about

letting yourself not have to

be eaten up by that and saying

they can be who they want to be they get

to make their choices in life i don't

have to worry about it

and

they'll do what they do

yeah yeah exactly and now you're free to

be on your journey

yeah

okay so speaking of that

we've covered

the three columns we've covered the

action steps i wondered if you could

just

kind of sum up a little bit

where you're at with things if you have

some lingering questions anything like

that

because

what i want to know is that you

feel like you've got a plan

that

the columns make sense to you and i just

want to lay out how i think about it

the emotions column is not going to

change that much

it's your themes are your themes yeah

they're the things that lead to the

onsets and upticks and symptoms

the doubt column is going to continue to

shrink and shrink and shrink and shrink

sometimes an old question will pop up or

a new question will pop up and so we

never stop working in the doubt column

but

it shrinks you know and i've seen it

shrink even in the time i've been

working with you

yeah

and that's

one of the reasons you're you're getting

a lot of success

with the power column i think the goal

is to become more and more aligned with

your core narrative

accept the fullness of your trauma what

you're doing now

and live as you want to in a way that

enacts who you are

and all your strengths

that's how i would sum up how this goes

and then you choose your action steps to

do that do you feel like you have that

plan

largely in place

and

whether it's yes or no

let's think about where you will need to

go from here

um i do feel like i do i'm not symptom

free

um

but i'm okay with that i i see it as a

work in progress and i i think it's

going to be

a day-to-day moment by moment tweaking

um at the same time not just focusing on

symptoms getting out and

living my life

um

i know where to find you if i have

questions i i don't at this point but

i'm sure i will

and i'm sure stuff will come up again

but i feel

empowered i i do feel empowered i feel

like i i have a plan and

um

your as you call it your scaffolding you

that your framework that you've laid out

really resonates for me

you know something that i can use and

plug in and

and i think

um

just looking back on the sessions you

did with barb and daniel and myself

they're all different

and so hopefully other people will see

that too and see the

the differences and think okay i could

do this too

um yeah it's a good point because it

really is true that i provide a

scaffolding yeah the the columns are a

scaffolding yeah but we see how each

person folds into that differently yeah

yeah

we're all going to be unique and

different

so i'm sure and i probably

will

um ask you questions as we go along but

i feel like i have enough information

that i feel pretty pumped about it

actually and

um

the fact that i'm not symptom-free and i

i don't feel like a million bucks and

feel like running a marathon this

afternoon that's okay because i know i'm

gonna get there and i've had some big

shifts

so i i know it's gonna happen

yeah i mean i also wanted to highlight

diane and i'm sure this is not

surprising to you

most people by the end of four sessions

aren't symptom-free it does happen um

but but usually they're not people who

the people who get symptom-free in four

sessions

they usually weren't as

um

deeply

uh

immersed

in the mind-body experience they may

have had like an acute symptom

i told them what they needed to know and

it's like a book here boom yeah they're

done

yeah most people

make a lot of progress during the the

four sessions

but it is it's a lifelong journey you

know yeah

i continue to become stronger and

stronger in these areas

in all kinds of ways in fact you and i i

think just recently had um well actually

you made a comment on one of the

podcasts and i need to get back to you

on it was about antidepressants and

withdrawal

and you made a comment about chemo

and how

some i think was a friend of yours who

was able to control the nausea of chemo

through mind-body methods and

that's not to say there is no actual

nausea from it's not saying one it's all

one or the other but

you made a comment that i thought was

very wise which is why not try to

utilize this

yeah

it was actually it wasn't a friend it

was a patient a little 10 year old girl

who was incredible wow she earned me an

a plus in a psychology course when i

went back to university because i i used

her as an example for a lot of things

but

um

it is the kind of thing that

you can choose to take that route and

even if there is a another physiological

reason underneath it there's probably a

huge mind-body component to it

and she just made up her mind that she

was not going to have symptoms and she

she recognized that

well before the chemo a day or two

before she'd start feeling unwell and

you know she'd be almost vomiting as she

came in the door

and she just

thought i'm not doing this anymore i'm

going to do it in a different way

and you know she survived her cancer and

she was incredibly strong

so that was a very long time ago but she

taught me a lot

yeah the things we learned from other

other people and especially those kids

there yeah yeah and i say this to my own

kids

kids know a lot

a lot of times we've

kind of unlearned things that we should

have held on to from childhood there's a

lot of wisdom in childhood because they

haven't learned the things that we have

confused ourselves about

so i listen to my kids a lot um there

are things that they don't know about

you know i wouldn't like trust them with

how to build a car

yeah but

i think we can learn a lot from from

other people and from kids and

i was just thinking about that the power

of the mind and how far it goes

we're all still learning about same

thing with me

you know when i did my video on the

covet vaccine and was that side effects

or not i still don't know the answer to

it

but i do know that it was very helpful

and empowering to me to say maybe there

are things i can do about it and i'm

going to try yeah

you know as long as we're not countering

um major medical issues with that and

ignoring doctors about that

then it's time where we can do it

and the mind-body experience goes very

far yeah i think it does too yeah

and the more you believe that

the better you're gonna get yeah so i

think you're on a really good path

diane is there anything else that you

wanted to say about any of this

um or hear from me about before we wrap

up for today no it's been a tremendous

opportunity and

um again thank you for your wisdom and

your compassion and your guidance

um it's been great and

i'll be a member of this community

probably as long as i'm around and you

know however i can

help other people and ask questions

because i'm sure i'll have stuff that

will come up as well

well you you've been a great you've been

a very valuable part of the community

already and i know that will

continue and as i always say on here

with these sessions

there's a great bravery and a great

generosity in coming on here but i also

just

one thing i love about

um

being powerful and about my own setup

is that i value the moments

yeah

and

i want to say i i value these moments

i've had with you

i really i treasure them likewise yeah

yeah so

and it's going to be you know helping

one person at a time as i see more and

more people coming on and

you know some of the other forms um

fibromyalgia and that kind of thing will

foray into them and i don't ever try and

tell someone else how to do it but i'll

just let them know what my successes

have been and how i've dealt with it

and every once in a while somebody will

go oh can you tell me a little bit more

about that and so i'll just keep doing

that and also with friends and my

husband's noticed a huge change in me as

well so i'm just going to finish up on

this last thing because it's really

important every single one of you out

there can make a huge difference

each one of you can save many many lives

or help people save their own lives

and and you know

just these one maybe one piece of one

nugget of wisdom or or two

makes a huge difference so keep keep up

the comments and keep up the good work

diana i appreciate having you by my side

in this

good thank you dan and i hope as people

are listening they realize that for me

it's been many many years of pain so

those people who think i can't do it

because it's been too long

it has been for me too and i am doing it

so yeah

thank you for saying that diane that's

very important and it's a it's a great

reminder also that every time i do this

with somebody

there's all kinds of messages people

need to hear and that was one of them so

i'm really glad you got that in there

yeah

thank you for everything diane it's been

a pleasure and we will keep in touch we

will okay thank you dan and thank you

greg

okay take care

bye what a pleasure to have worked with

diane in general you can see what a

pleasure she is just as a person that

she's dripping with goodism and i mean

that is a as high praise

but i loved getting to see

in her action steps that she's not

shying away from certain things that

a goodist might shy away from

things like aggression being something

you can use

adaptively

or to feel that you can

put up boundaries that maybe other

people wouldn't like

so

lots of things in there

actually revenge as success was

something i really didn't expect to see

diane say

and yet i could see that she really got

the point underneath she is fiercely in

her own corner she's ready

to

put herself

in the mix of people who are deeply

valuable in her life it's a real real

honor to be part of and i'm so glad

she's well on her way she's getting

symptom relief already and i look

forward to hearing more about how it

goes if you haven't already click

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