Chief Customer Officer at Compare the Market: How to Build a Brand Everyone Remembers

I have this thing where I remind myself

that that moment when it gets really

hard that's where everyone else is

finding hard and most of the people are

giving up to okay that's where I

continue right

>> that's where you continue right you keep

going

>> hi I'm Tom Wallace I'm chief customer

officer at compare the market which has

800 employees across the UK and France

and this is my duvet flip

>> you left without a job

>> what happened

>> I've done loads of great things and I've

done like I said mergers I've done

coding I've done you know Great. Turns

out people didn't want someone who was

skilled in a few things. They wanted a

specific skill. You know, the thing I

love about marketing is that everything

is interesting. Every day is

interesting. And especially when you are

overseeing it.

>> Obviously, we see we see him over there

in the corner there. You got such an

iconic

>> brand. It's such an iconic brand, isn't

it?

>> Yeah. It's it's it's it's absolutely

incredible. And you know, even words

like simples are in the dictionary. It's

it you know, it's it's part of culture.

Uh everybody knows the Mircats. They are

uh just a wonderful representation of

fun in a category that can be a little

bit boring.

>> Are you ready for my final question?

>> Yes. Go for it.

>> What's your duvet flip? What gets you

out of bed in the morning to flip the

duvet?

>> It may be a cliche, but I love it.

>> Hi, I'm Tom Wallace. I'm chief customer

officer at Compare the Market. Uh I'm

looking forward to speaking to Jack. I

wanted to come on my duvet flip because

I've had some interesting twists and

turns in my career. I've never met Jack

before. I'm expecting to go pretty deep.

If there's one thing I hope that people

take away from the episode, it's that

you can go up, down, sideways, but

ultimately you'll get somewhere where

you can be really happy.

>> Hi Jack, I'm ready. Let's get started.

>> Tom, welcome to my duvet flip. How are

we?

>> I'm very well, thank you. very well.

>> It's going to be a roller coaster.

>> Hopefully. Yeah,

>> hopefully. I always start here no matter

who the guests, what the background,

from the prime minister to the chief

customer officer, first job, what was

it? And if you could go back to your

younger self now, knowing all everything

you know now, what would you be advising

them?

>> Interesting. My my first job uh out of

university was temping for the legal

services commission. So my job was to

read every single daily newspaper every

day, look for articles about the law and

cut them out with a pair of scissors and

stick them into a book. And I did that

for a year and it was great. I got very

well informed of all the different views

of the 11 different papers that were out

at the time.

>> And what what tips or advice would you

give to anyone kind of starting out

doing a job? May maybe it won't be

cutting out the newspaper anymore, but

what advice would you be giving people

in their first jobs?

>> I think take something from it. I think

most first jobs, you know, by definition

of the the bottom of the ladder, but you

can really take something from it. So,

learning from the people around you,

learning the sort of behaviors and

customs of the workplace if that's the

kind of place you're in. um trying to

learn and observe how people interact,

what the um sort of between the lines,

you know, thinking is of of the various

people around you and uh you just get

into that rhythm of applying yourself. I

think you can really do that in any type

of job

>> and and that in between the lines, what

skills do you need to be able to read

the room, understand what common sense

and knowing how the kind of the room's

working? because I think it's a it's a

skill, isn't it? And we we're not get a

lot of young people and I say it to

young people, if you got less than five

years experience, get as much time as

you can in the office.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I

would see things um you know, you would

see groups of people going into rooms

and meetings and by the types of people

that are in there, you know, different

departments or teams and so on and by

the level of animation of the people,

you got a sense of what was going on,

whether that was important, whether

there was a turning point coming. Um, I

think that's really important. Seeing

what is agitating people because then

you know that's where the business is,

if you see what I mean. If people are

sort of laidback and relaxed, you know

that that's not an important topic. And

just listening to little conversations

that people have when they come out.

Yeah. Getting a sort of radar. And I

think even uh you know outside of

meetings when you are in an open plan

office let's say just hearing and

overhearing the little side desk

conversation seeing who is stressed who

is uh excited who is uh you know deep in

thought on something gives you a sense

of what you know what's going on and and

and where you know your you know empathy

and and attention could also be.

>> We had your chairman Debbie U and she

said the exactly same thing. Yeah. uh

focus have a look at what the kind of

the the makeup of the room is to see

what how people are and how you can

potentially help them as well.

>> Yeah. So what happened? So you you spent

a year cutting out papers and that gave

you so much lessons and learnings. What

happened next?

>> So I did that um you know uh straight

after university to save up for round

the world trip and I saved all the money

and and

blew it all on a round the world trip uh

which was which was fantastic. you know,

I got to see all different countries and

and have a have some great fun. But then

my first, I suppose, real job um was uh

as a consultant for Accenture, um an IT

consultant. My background was I did an

engineering degree and computer

architecture and all that sort of stuff.

And uh at the time there were, you know,

lots of companies like Accenture looking

for grads like me. I thought, okay, I'll

go for that. Um and it was it was

fascinating. It was uh challenging. It

was quite technical at the time, so I

got to use a bit of that side of uh the

things that I'd learned. Um, but one of

the things that I got from that was that

they trained and drilled you in

management, time management, meeting

structure,

you know, that sort of discipline. Um,

so I'm always the one in a meeting who's

got an eye on the clock and I finish it

on time and so on. I've always got the

actions written up and so on. Um, and

also, you know, I I guess it's you're

quite fortunate because in a in a

business like that, as a consultant,

you're going into other businesses and

working with people a lot more senior

than you. And I, you know, some of my um

you fondest memories are of uh driving

up to uh an office in in Peter,

actually, next door to where I now work.

Um, and it was a call center and it was

a call center for uh, Virgin Media and

the head of the call center uh, was a

very busy man and when I arrived 25

years old, I'm making time for Tom, you

know, Tom, come on, don't worry about

the diary. Come in. And that made me

feel really special. It gave me a lot of

confidence um that you know people will

value what you can do and and will give

you their time and and uh and again I

got to observe the way that he behaved

as well around the contact center. So

it's really really interesting.

>> That is fascinating isn't it? And do you

think having those kind of principles

kind of taught from Accenture like time

management uh follow-ups? I'm I'm a big

I'm a big believer the power of today is

in the followup. Yeah.

>> Do you think those things have really

helped drive your career forward?

>> I think I think they they're a

foundation, but I don't think they're

the things that necessarily sort of joke

before. I think um you know, you can

amass a range of different skills uh

early on in your career. And each one

you get one or two% of of benefit from

it and they all add up. Um I think you

know what I what I took most from it was

a range of different experiences. I

worked on different clients. I worked uh

you know deep down coding myself you

know literally I worked uh in India you

know running a team of developers and

then the next month I'm working on a

merger and for the first time in my life

trying to run a spreadsheet with stuff

on um uh and I learned a lot from seeing

different different businesses and

different ways of operating um and that

was a fiveyear period really uh which I

concluded uded by thinking

will anyone remember me, you know, will

will I be remembered in this world as a

consultant? And I think the answer for

me at least was was no. And so I just

dropped it. I just quit um without

another job. Uh uh

>> and where did that come from? Like that

realization and asking yourself that

question like did was that because of

your traveling? Was that because of

something that happened? Like what made

you realize that actually will I anyone

remember me?

>> Interesting. My father died when I was

26 and that was towards the back end of

my time at Accenture. So I think that

that probably had something to do with

it. You know you realize when a parent

dies that uh you know life is finite and

you know you want to leave a legacy

behind. You think oh what about when I

die what will people think? So I think

that was that was probably it and that's

the first time I've actually put those

two things together actually.

>> Wow. Yeah. Oh thank you for sharing.

Yeah. So

you left

without a job.

>> Yeah.

>> What happened? Like

>> what did you do?

>> Yeah. So it was it was a rash decision I

would say. Uh it was 2008 and you know

that was the time of the credit crunch,

the credit crisis. I didn't know that.

You know that was my had my head down

working at Accenture. So I came out into

the market without a job thinking, you

know, I've I've done loads of great

things at Accenture. I mean, I've done,

like I said, mergers, I've done coding,

I've done, you know, great. Turns out

people didn't want someone who was, you

know, skilled in a few things. They

wanted a specific like skill, you know,

are you this or you that so I didn't

actually find it that easy. I thought,

okay, I easily get another job. But, um,

three weeks passed and I was like, ah,

this is a bit more tricky than I

thought, you know, sending out

applications, writing CVs at the time,

you know, to post, you know, to online

forms and they, you know, go nowhere,

never hear anything back. So I started

to get a bit worried and um as always

the best way to find a job I think is

through contact and somebody had

previously left Accenture that I'd

worked with had gone to work at Sky in a

project management team and I said to

him look really struggling to find

something you know any tips anything you

know he said oh okay we've got a project

management job here at Sky I think you'd

be great so I went down there had a

peruncter interview where they said oh

Jamie says you're fine you know you're

in and then that was it. So then I got

this job uh at Sky.

>> And had you done project management

before or was it more of a

>> not really it? Not really. No. No. I

mean you you get a little bit of

accenture. Um but not really. No, it was

all just give it a go I suppose and

processes.

>> That was your first experience from a

kind of client side they call it.

>> That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I

think you know a lot of people a lot of

ex consultants will say you know you

make your decision you want to go client

side because you want to see see

something through you want to see it

continue you want to be there after it's

gone live you know as a consultant you

finish the job on Friday afternoon you

never see him again from Monday onwards

so I wanted to see something through so

being in a business like sky uh you know

at the heart of the action was really

really interesting is what I wanted I

wanted to be somewhere where I could

make a continuing contribution and feel

the value of what I was doing.

>> And how long did you stay there and what

did that teach you that that the

consultancy did?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Know I I stayed at Sky for a

total of eight years and it was a it was

a you know a massive turning point for

me in my career. So the first two years

I was doing project management and

business analysis which is sort of

taking requirements and running kind of

workshops and so on and they were for

marketing projects and in the sky

offices at the time it's a campus over

in West London there was this building

that I was in little bit more rundown um

all the project managers were there and

we got moved you know after a year into

an even worse part of the building like

upstairs we were just looking around

what is this why are we being put up

here in this room, you know, no air

conditioning and it's at the back.

There's not even any windows. I mean, it

was really terrible. And you sort of

look out, you peer out through the tiny

window you can see into the other

building and that's where all the

marketing is. And that Sky is a big

marketing organization. That's where all

the magic is. That's where everyone's,

you know, you imagine they're all sort

of sitting back laughing.

>> That's where you want to be. It's like,

you know, Mad Men or something. And I

thought that's where all the action is

and I'm here and it's it's not so great.

And I want to be over there. I want to

be part of that. But um everybody or

most people it seemed that were in a

marketing team had either a marketing

degree or they come through the grad

scheme and they were all they all

appeared to be experts to me. And I had

no marketing knowledge whatsoever. So I

embarked on a strategy that I would not

recommend which was to sit there and

hope that someone noticed me one day.

And I look back and think well I could

have just said what I wanted to do and

maybe it would have happened faster. So

I basically spent two years trying to be

good at projects in the marketing team,

you know, in trying to impress people.

And in one day after two years, um, uh,

a man called Paul, uh, said, "Tom,

I'm I've got a new role coming up. We

should go for a coffee." And I thought,

"Finally, I've been noticed."

I went for a coffee with Paul and he

said, "We've got this I've created this

new role in my team. uh and I think

you'd be quite good at it. It's looking

at all the different marketing activity

that we do at Sky and trying to

understand what works. So you sit in the

middle of it all. You don't need to know

marketing. You just need to know how to

sort of add up and so on and and look at

data. And I was quite good at that.

>> So I did that. So I went into that and

>> and was this in the new building?

>> It was in the new building. It was in a

new building sitting amongst all the all

the all the all the cool people, let's

say. And um

>> and is it what you thought when you got

into the new building

>> that it was as was I think it was. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It was I mean it was really

buzzy time for Sky. That was about 2010

or so. They had a big kind of goal of of

growth and and they were hitting it. So

there was lots of energy um lots of

stuff around you know surrounded by

campaigns

uh you know artwork on the tables. you

know, it was what I imagined it to be.

And I had no, as I say, I had no market

experience, but what I what I did have

in this role was uh a great vantage

point to see what went on in each area.

So, I would go out to the online team

and talk to them. So, you know, what's

what's going in your area, what how does

that work? Go to the call center direct

direct um uh uh team and find out what's

going on there. Then there was sort of

face toface sales in the in the shopping

centers and so on. Learn more about

that. And so I got to see how it all

worked. And the other thing that I was

responsible for was promotions, sales

promotions, you know, free skybox, 30

pound voucher and so on. And I and I and

I was I got to run hundreds of those and

get a sense of what worked. And so over

the sort of year and a half, two years

that I did that role, I got to see and

feel and learn how everything worked.

And and you know looking back it was

quite that was quite a good introduction

to it all because I got you know bird's

eye view of it all didn't you

>> all of it absolutely

>> um and then there was a moment where I

sort of felt stuck because I was doing

that and every quarter we ran in

quarterly cycles it was the same again

you know try and hit this number of

sales see and so on and I got quite good

at that but then I felt like how am I

going to get out this you know I don't

actually know how to do any of the

marketing itself I know how to read it

but I don't know how to do it And some

people ended up doing that for 10, 15

years, just that same role. I was like,

I don't want to do that. That's not

going to be interesting for me. Now TV,

you've heard of Now TV, the brand um

that started within Sky at that time.

And it was like a startup within Sky, a

new business in its own uh building

somewhere else.

>> So another building, another building.

>> Was this building shinier than that one?

>> It was it was a scrappy building, a

scrappy startup building. But that was

good because we're all sort of hled

around little desks. And um there was uh

a guy that I I sort of worked with in

that sort of um role that I was in at

the time had gone over there to sort of

be part of the the the start of it. And

um there was a role created which was a

bit of trading which is what I was doing

and then partnership marketing and

affiliate marketing. I didn't know

either anything about either of those

things but I thought hey I'll throw my

hat in the ring. I'll go for it. I went

and did an interview uh with this guy,

Pascal, his name was and uh he

interviewed me and eight to 10 weeks

passed. I didn't hear anything. Then I

was on holiday and I got a phone call

from Pascal saying, "Right, Tom, uh I

can't find anyone better, so it's going

to have to be you."

>> Thanks for confidence. Vote of

confidence. So I went over there and uh

didn't really, you know, immediately

like it was it was it was started off

really badly. the business and they were

struggling and immediately thrown into

sort of a turnaround situation and uh I

did the bit I knew how to do the the the

trading which is planning how we would

grow sales and then partnerships and

affiliates. So partnerships was we were

trying to do deals with you know

Microsoft and Samsung TVs and LGTVs and

and and so on and my job was to go out

and broker deals with people and I'm not

a dealmaker. I've never done this at the

time. I was quite introverted and uh I

sort of started to do that a bit. didn't

quite get traction and Pascal um a good

friend of mine now uh pulled me into

room said Tom don't think you don't cut

out for this right really stern you know

you haven't got it and I was like but

for for me that's actually quite

motivating because I was like no

actually I think I no

>> hold on a minute let me try

>> no so I quite I can't respond to that

kind of feedback which was good because

then I went out there and I did it again

and it started to work the deal started

to come in

>> and then the affiliate channel um was

ended up being the biggest channel that

they had and I somehow hands-on was

running it and I had someone you know an

external sort of support come in to

explain how it all worked and it grew

and there was a moment which I remember

when in the office we had all these

screens which had like hourly sales on

them uh and they were always like really

poor low charts and um and and I did

this deal and and it went live at 2:00

in the afternoon. It was with it was

Microsoft. It was on the Xbox Game Pass.

Get, you know, some points when you sign

up to LTV. And it went live and then

those charts which had been flat and

morale was fairly low in the building

for the last month or so suddenly

visibly started to kind of go upwards

and it was like a movie. It was like

everyone was like,

>> "What's that?

>> What's going on?

>> What's going on?" And then suddenly

there was this surge of of energy and

belief in the building that this

business could actually work. And so for

me that was a really important moment

because I thought that was me that did

that. And it it literally was because at

the time uh we had to put this live on

the website and because we were so hacky

and startupy I went in and I changed the

HTML to put this live and I was not even

in a test area but in the live on public

website

>> click like that live. So that was a

great feeling and um so with that

momentum uh uh you know it kept working.

I okay I can do this um you know I have

I have I am I am able to work this stuff

out. It was all sort of coming together

and they said okay Tom we need to launch

into retail. We've got this now TV box.

We need to put it into curries and Argos

and and and John Lewis. Can you do that?

I said I've never done that before. And

then again and this is really this is

actually an important point. I got

someone to help me. I didn't try and

work it out. I just we hired somebody, a

consultant um who who who knew who knew

how it worked, who knew how to deal with

retailers and he came in his b right Tom

this is how we're going to do it. Lovely

guy really supportive and together we

did that and it worked again. I wow I

was really tired at this point really

busy and he said why don't you do

digital marketing as well? So yeah I'll

give that a go. And so for a period of

four years at now TV, I barely took a

breath

>> um and just got thrown into it and

learned it and realized that I was being

energized by it and that made me want to

study it more. So I was, you know, on

the train on the way to work, I was

reading blogs about

>> So you become obsess obsessive.

>> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And and it's that the

feeling of um just the fire, right, that

you get when when when you're in a flow

state. You know, there was a time when I

remember I stayed up all night till 4:00

in the morning cuz I thought I' I I've

got the answer to this problem that we

were trying to solve around where our

next kind of growth was going to come

from. And I stayed up all night till

4:00 in the morning. I went to bed. I

woke up at 8. So I didn't fall asleep.

And this was a Saturday. And then I did

it all again. I worked all the way

through till four o'clock in the morning

on a Sunday. I like and I came out like

I found it. I got the answer and I went

in to work and it was the answer and it

did work and it was amazing. Um so yeah,

just getting that fire and I found and

then when I you know when I you know by

this point I was you know 33 32 or

something like that and I thought wow I

finally found it and I found the thing

that you know motivates me gets me up in

the morning. I want to be there. I want

to be part of it. It I can do it. Um

because up until that point, you know,

having gone through that period at

Accenture where I was sort of a

generalist and then got sort of stuck in

project management and then um uh you

know, stuck in a trading role and

looking across at other people. You you

do this thing and often people do where

you you look at other successful people

and go how are they, you know, how old

are they? They're younger than me and

already much more senior. And you I used

to feel pretty bad about that, you know,

comparing myself to people and thinking,

well, I've missed the boat now. Failed.

That's that's gone. That's the end of

it, right?

>> Well, it's just the beginning, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, it you know,

there's no rush. It does it does come.

It can come. You can find the thing that

motivates you and and and makes you

excited and like physically feel it in

in in your

>> I can feel it. I know,

>> Tom. I can feel it as you tell me.

You're so fascinating. Like I just

normally I have to ask a question after

a question of you. I'm just like you're

you're great at storytelling.

[Music]

>> So with compare the market yourselves,

we've got two money questions we're

asking all guests. Are you ready?

>> Yeah. Let's go for it.

>> So first one, what is your biggest money

regret and why? I mentioned uh I was uh

I went on a round the world trip and uh

I spent a lot of money. I spent a lot on

a credit card as well. I over spent and

I then ended up in a cycle for probably

the next 10 years of overspending on a

credit card in anticipation of money

that I might get in the future. And so I

was always on the back foot and it would

have been the right thing to do to get a

year ahead and have a year in the bank

rather than a year in in reverse.

>> Wow. And what's your simplest money tip

to your 18year-old self?

>> I would say

have goals. So think of something a few

things specific that you're actually

saving for. a a house deposit,

uh you know, whatever it is, um pension

especially. Uh and then think about how

much you're earning today and how much

you might aspire to earn in the future.

Work out how you're going to achieve

those goals. Make a plan and then

whatever's left over, you can feel more

comfortable about spending um and and do

that and and enjoy it. you know, you you

you're only young once and there are

things that you can do and you can

travel with it and you can go out with

your friends and so on. And so I think

when you don't have goals, you find you

may find yourself just saving for no

real purpose or destination because you

think you should, which is absolutely

right. But when you know what you're

saving for and how much it'll take to

get there and what you'll have left

over, you can be much more comfortable

in the bit that you have left over.

I love that money tip because I think

it's one of the best money tips we've

had by the way because it's so tangible.

Yeah.

>> Everyone can sit down and think of their

goals now, right?

>> Yeah. Absolutely. I love it.

>> Pension very important. You know, start

early.

>> Absolutely.

>> Last longer.

[Music]

>> So, you've

become obsessed at now.

What happens next? How how did it how

did you end up at Compare the Market?

>> So, now TV was a roller coaster of

emotions and energy and

uh great times, great friends. Um and

you know things come to an end. I you

know it got to a million customers and

it became a it became a different beast.

It sort of get more absorbed into Sky

and uh and so I started looking for a

new role. I found one. And when I left

now, I I cried. I cried in front of

everybody. I don't often cry in front of

anybody, but I cried. Um because I

remember thinking, you know, I'll never

work with people like you again. Um even

now a little sting.

>> I can I can feel it. I'm with you.

>> Um but you know, ultimately you find new

things and and I did find you know,

amazing new opportunities. And I went to

work for a company called Gusto, um a

recipe uh company. It was a startup. I

wanted to get that real startup

experience without the backing of a big

company like Sky behind it. And again,

that was an amazing journey. I took what

I learned from Sky. I became CMO at

Gustau working for an amazing uh

company, amazing uh founder and that was

again another rocket ship. It went

doubled every year for six the six years

that I was there. It you know benefited

luckily from COVID effects and again I

got to do all sorts of different things

there. It was an amazing amazing uh

journey of learning and you know what

was I think especially good about it was

we were all learning at the same time.

You know it wasn't like I was coming

into a a company where everyone was

already really experienced and knew how

to work with investors and boards and so

on. We're all there new to it. So you

know fantastic experience and um uh that

the founder of of of Gusta is on the

board of compet. So when that journey

arc ended, he said they're looking for

someone like you at compare the market,

someone who's got a a datadriven brain,

you know, from my sort of engineering

background, um knows marketing from

marketing um and you know kind of bit of

a you know an all round good guy and uh

so I thought well that's I mean that's

me. So I went there, I met Mark Bailey,

the CEO, and within two weeks, uh,

pretty much I was I was there. I was in

the building, you know, it was really

really fast and they didn't mess around.

Uh, and, uh, so I joined Compet Market

and and a thing that really attracted me

to it because there were a few options

was they they knew exactly what I needed

to do. A lot of a lot of companies,

they're not quite sure. Well, kind of

just grow or something vague like that.

Everyone wants that. They were they were

very specific. You got two goals, Tom.

um you get more from our customers,

customer marketing and make our Google

more efficient. That's it. So, okay, I

like it. Nice and simple. So, I came in

and uh that was my task. That was what I

started with.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And then tell me a little bit about like

in your words and I've been I've

obviously interviewed Debbie, Mark,

yourself like

>> tell me a little bit about the culture

at Compare.

>> Culture. Yeah, really really important.

And uh you know I I learned the value of

this you know going from Sky to Gustau.

Gust the culture was very um

non-political right it was about the way

that the way that I describe it um is

if if if a member of the team or any

team found some useful information, some

useful insight that could help the

company move forward in a not so good

culture. people would want to keep that

to themselves. You know, it's powerful

information that can help them get

ahead. In a good culture, the c the kind

of culture that I enjoy, they'd be

they'd want to share it with everybody.

They say, "I found this great idea that

will help us all move forward together."

That that to me sort of sums up two

different types of cultures. And it's

really how do we how do we get people

all moving together in the same

direction? Apolitical

um uh positive uh caring that, you know,

that's I think that's really at the

heart of it. Um, and that's what I

enjoy. That's what I thrive on. I like

helping other people. I like for me

seeing other people be successful is

>> is what I want, right?

>> So, you win as a team, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So, I

think that that I really feel that. I

really felt that when I came in the

building talking to people, you get it

quite quickly. That's what that's what

drew me to the culture.

>> And you're chief customer officer. What

does that mean?

>> What does that and what does that

remmit? You got quite a interesting and

>> exciting remitt cuz I I love brand. I

love marketing. Like tell me a little

bit about the

>> Yeah. So, so you know there's a there's

a bit of a smores board of titles you

can end up with because some some are

already used up and it's a bit like

that. Um so so the the customer word was

introduced about two years ago into the

role and the team which was really to

signal the focus on customers right our

focus on customers before when I first

joined it was chief revenue officer and

that was because that was just you know

few other titles already taken chief

revenue officer was the one that was

left but then after a year we were sort

of thinking that's a bit bit dirty isn't

it revenue officer

we're not there to you know obviously we

make money uh you know we only make

money when customers save money right so

we changed the focus to customers chief

customer officer and then uh four four

or five months ago uh you know in

addition to the the customer marketing

that I mentioned and and the the Google

pay-per-click advertising uh I took on

the brand as well so chief customer of

essentially is is the marketing team so

there's about 75 people in the team plus

all the agencies that we work with

responsible for the mcats the emails

that you get uh the things that you see

and social media, everything to do with

uh promoting uh the business.

>> That's exciting.

>> It is very exciting. I mean,

>> and I I heard that you was listed in the

100 power list

>> campaign power 100. Yes. Yes. So, it's

>> that's cool, isn't it?

>> It is quite cool. And interestingly,

taking this back, um it, you know, when

I left consulting, one of the things

that I thought was I won't be

remembered. No one ever puts, you know,

you never be on a magazine. You never

been in a magazine as a consultant. Not

that I wanted to be famous or anything

like that, but I feel it's a symbol of

recognition. And you know, you know,

this is the second time I've been in

that list and and the first time they

had a printed edition of magazine and I

was on the cover and I framed it. I

thought, "Wow, how

>> cool is that?"

>> Finally, you know, I've I've achieved my

my dreams.

>> What you sat to do, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and and interesting. I

never thought I could or would, right?

>> So, what are some of the interesting

things that you've done in the role?

like cuz I know you got such an

obviously we see we see him over there

in the corner there. You got such an

iconic

>> brand, such an iconic brand, isn't it?

>> Yeah, it's it's it's it's absolutely

incredible. And you know, even words

like simples are in the dictionary. It's

it, you know, it's it's part of culture.

Uh, everybody knows the meats. They are

uh just a wonderful representation of of

of of fun in a category that can be a

little bit boring, right? which is which

is what why why it sort of attracts

attention. Um

>> honestly every the thing I love about

marketing is that everything is

interesting every day is interesting and

especially when you are overseeing it.

you get to flip between, you know, a

meeting about a PR campaign in the

morning to something about, you know,

how we are using AI to target our

digital media through to a meeting at a

creative agency to look at the latest TV

work, you know, storyboards. So, it's

just absolutely fascinating. And uh I

think that uh for me you know having

recently taken on the Mircats the brand

getting deeper into that has been been

really really wonderful. And one of the

things that we've been working on uh in

the last few months is you know how do

we bring the brand back to some of those

uh kind of values that it had five or

six years ago. You know how do we make

it you know really famous again? And um

we've you know we're working on a

campaign now that will be out in the new

year which has be really you know it's

going to be really uh uh exciting. I

think people will will find it funny.

Building emotional connection as well is

really important because one of the

things you want to do with the brand is

be remembered right and you don't be

remembered by talking facts and figures.

You be remembered by sort of connecting

with people emotionally. So the new work

um which which you know is sets out to

do that and and I think that people are

going to really enjoy it.

>> Wow. And uh what's your advice to anyone

talking about building a brand to me?

Remember everyone has a personal brand,

right?

>> Yeah.

>> And a personal brand

helps you in your world of work.

>> Yeah.

>> Like you said at the start, it's it's

about connections, who you know, and oh,

there's a job here and then

>> there's a job here.

>> Yeah.

What do people need to do to build their

own personal brand? Because the the the

word personal brand some people shy away

from because they think, "Oh, I have to

go and public speak and I have to post

every day on social media." But everyone

has a personal brand.

>> What's your advice to anyone who's at

the start of their journey or looking to

change careers or jobs? How do they

build a personal brand?

>> Yeah, I think um

be authentic of course, right? Um, I

think when you think of the phrase

personal brand, you might some people

might feel as though, oh, that's

something I need to be and I need to I

want to be that and therefore I need to

be that. It's different to who I really

am. That's very, very difficult to keep

up and people can sort of see through

it. So, I think think about what it is.

What is it that you're good at? What is

it that you enjoy? What is it you want

to be known for? And, you know, use that

as your northstar about what your

personal brand should or or could be.

Um,

don't force it. Um, you know, when I

first started in my career, I hated

networking. I hated talking about

myself. I hated

>> because you introverted.

>> Introverted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You

know, very much so. And and that's an

interesting thing. It does change,

right? I, you know, I thought I'd never

be the one to sort of Yeah. I'd hate

just hate standing around in a room of

people I didn't know, right? But that's

now I want to, right? I love it. Right.

Um, so yeah, do something that that that

really is yourself that um isn't forced.

You know, you don't need to labor it on

LinkedIn when saying things that you

don't really, you know, wouldn't

normally say in real life. Um

uh yeah, just think about how you want

to be remembered and and and and leave a

little impression on people in that way

>> and and be trustworthy as well. Like

trust is amazingly powerful. H and so

you know keeping to your word turning up

when you say you're going to you know

reaching out to people following up um I

think you know one thing that I learned

especially in startup world is that

people what goes around comes around

people want to help each other

>> you know having been in corporates you

don't really talk to other brands as a

corporate but when you're startup it's

like yeah what are you doing let's go

for coffee let's do this let's do that

and and you just actively do it and

people people love it and they want it

and and you're like you should meet this

person and it really happened like you

know this it really does and it you make

connections that way. So you do it

authentically it doesn't need to be

through

>> a task of building personal brand.

>> Agree.

>> Yeah. What would you say your invisible

success is like? What's something that's

that's not online is not what you've

mentioned so far that has really been

your invisible success that has made you

successful. You've been successful in

your career.

Yeah, good question. I think enjoying

the learning to enjoy the toughness,

right? I'm the kind of person that likes

doing things like going camping in the

rain or uh you know, training for a

marathon, that sort of thing. I think

some people call it type two fun, you

know, like it's just a bit hard. And I

think that uh getting that visceral

feeling of, you know, solving problems

and moving forward, it being really

hard, but then getting a bit of

enjoyment out of that is is what

motivates you. If you if that kind of

thing makes you, you know, that that's

horrible, you don't like it, you know,

find something else, right, that that

that you do like. But yeah, definitely I

really like it when it gets hard. Um, I

like it because I have this thing where

I sort of remind myself that that moment

when it gets really hard, that's where

everyone else is finding hard and most

of the people are giving up to, okay,

that's where I continue.

>> That's where you continue, right? You

keep going. Are you ready for my final

question?

>> Yes, go for it.

>> What's your duvet flip? What gets you

out of bed in the morning to flip the

duvet?

>> It may be a cliche, but I love working

with my team. I love going in and seeing

all of their eager faces really to, you

know, make a difference. I love the fact

that I can help them make a difference.

Yeah, I definitely do it for them.

>> Wow. I just want to say thank you for

joining us on the show, for being so

open, honest. I can see that that oomph

in you. I love it. I I really do. And uh

thanks for sharing your journey and

being so open with us and running us

through your career and and what you do

at Compare the Market. Uh, I just I

think you're out of Don't say this in

front of Mark or Debbie, but your role

is probably the coolest role. It

>> is cool, isn't it?

>> It's pretty cool. So, thank you.

>> My pleasure.