Mind Body Session 3 of 4 with Dr. Dan Ratner & Diane L.

hi i'm dr dan ratner today i do the

third of four of my consultation

sessions with diane we'll be focusing on

the power column getting her core

narrative set and finding out the ways

that she slips out of power and how to

get back into it

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if you like what you're hearing and put

your comments below and i'll get back to

you personally

hi diane welcome back

it's good to have you and we're going to

talk about our power your your power

column we don't have our power column i

like to think that i'm really in it with

you but

you are

i am so welcome back and and i wanted to

orient you again to kind of what we've

been doing and where we're going of

course we've done our we've done the

emotions column work

where we talk about the onset and uptick

in symptoms we did some doubt column

work where we talked about the chronic

symptoms

and today we're going to talk about the

power column

which is really about

any plateaus you're stuck on or ways

that you're not yet moving forward fully

the way you want to so it's kind of like

a power boost the power column

and within that

we're going to cover the core narrative

and then we're going to cover the three

parts of your power experience and those

are

power with yourself

power with others

and power with your symptoms

so

as i said last time

we have a great advantage with you you

put in a lot of work ahead of time

and so you have you've identified

certain issues that we're going to cover

but you've also written the core

narrative

which by the way which may change yeah

right well and for anybody watching out

there

don't don't uh feel that you've got to

do that

some people don't feel like they know

how to do it

that's okay you can come and just come

to my office and and metaphorically lay

down on the table and say tell me i

don't know what to do but

um diane i'm going to read back what you

wrote for your core narrative is that

okay to share yeah absolutely all right

because this is kind of a draft um

it may be that you nailed it and this is

what we want to

to have be it

but a little bit of a reminder

the first sentence

is and it doesn't have to be three

sentences but in general the first

sentence is about

the broad

the biggest broadest theme

that cover or femor themes

that cover your life

and really sum you up

the second one is how did it affect you

what ended up happening

and then the third is what do you plan

to do about it and i see that you did

you followed that system so

here's what you have so far

i grew up in a family that did not allow

me to express who i really was or how i

felt

which made me have to live in secret

feeling invisible and sometimes

condemned for who i was

even if my parents did their best

a little little goodism in there for you

which i totally support that's totally

fine

now

the second sentence is what what

happened

one of the most challenging

manifestations of this

uh has happened with a family member who

treats me with contempt has unfairly

blamed me for things is unwilling to

sort things out and is a painful force

in my life

okay so that's one

one of the main things that is led to i

i think we may want to build on that a

little bit because that's one aspect

but i think it's affected you in other

ways too

and we're going to go through that

but i just want to finish reading

through what you've written so we can

kind of go from there

i plan now to live with a powerful

version of me good

choosing to be able to voice my anger

protect myself by being fiercely in my

own corner where'd you get that i love

it

and recognizing that the kind of people

who dismiss me will not be treated as

significant in any way i love this

i have learned to ignore them and

prioritize the good people in my life i

will use my skills to help others

through some of the things i have

overcome

so i think you did a great job with this

um there's a couple questions i'm going

to ask you though

that will show how we

hone this all

so with the core narrative in that first

sentence

do you feel that you captured the

essence of you you know

much better than i do i'm not asking

that question because i think you

haven't

i'm just wanting to double back and say

does this capture

who you are at your core it feels very

right on from what i know yeah i i think

so um

it feels like the area that i'm most

challenged in

um

so yeah the rest of my life i feel has

gone fairly smoothly so yeah okay so i'm

gonna read it one more time that first

sentence because i may have some

questions as i read it the second time

okay

i grew up in a family that did not allow

me to express who i really was or how i

felt which made me have to live in

secret

feeling invisible and sometimes

condemned for who i was even if my

parents did their best okay

i i just think it's great i i

really think you nailed that i

as i read it i was like the only

questions i really have are more about

the second sentence

what did it do

so we know one of the most challenging

manifestations was with this particular

family member

um

i'm we may want to shorten that part so

we can fit more in

but we'll get to that in a second i have

a couple questions

what did it do in your in the rest of

your family relationships

let's just start with that um well

i thought that i had a pretty okay

relationship with all my family honestly

and

um i think i just assumed that there

were absent and

which there are ups and downs in every

family sure and i just thought mine were

no different and

um you know as i've gotten older

realized there were areas where my

parents were not

as skilled as they could be and

i do a lot of work with the enneagram

i've studied that quite in-depth i'm not

sure if you're familiar with it but

looking at um

personality types and how people are

wired and

so i i'm always trying to figure out you

know why did that person do this or

what's happening for them um

so i've done that with my family too and

you know when i

with my parents in particular if i look

back at their families they didn't have

the best um

sure

chance either so so i just assumed that

it was pretty normal and that

um i had a relatively good relationship

with my parents

with my family

but still there was pain you know still

there was stuff that came up for me and

and a bit of guilt about that thinking

you know it's normal so why am i having

a hard time with it

right so this is the thing i i feel like

there's more to get into this sentence

there's more to get into about and this

is hard core narrative work is very hard

because you have to let in

a lot of depth about things and

sometimes unpleasant stuff or

sad things or things that make you

worried because you maybe you love your

family and don't want

anyone to feel criticized

but the core narrative is really it's a

it's a conversation between you and

yourself so you got to try to yeah

try to not have them in there try not to

have

goodism uh creep into this part buddhism

is great yeah i can see that it feels

like this is me expressing

how i felt um not criticizing them

yes exactly

and so

i have some questions one here's one

question i'm not saying this is right

but

did this leave you feeling alone

in your life

yeah

yeah um i i think i and

i expressed this last week as well i

think i

didn't really feel like i fit in in my

family and that they never really

knew who i was but i also thought

probably everybody feels like that that

you know this this is just normal that

well a lot of people do

but here's here's the thing

even if it's normal

is it good

no yeah right right so that's an

important question you know and i i'm

i'm not saying it to criticize anybody

i'm saying it because if we're going to

be fiercely in your own corner yeah

i don't think we should accept normality

of any kind it doesn't matter what it is

if it doesn't feel good to you it's not

acceptable fully we've gotta

reorient that so so far we have that you

felt alone

you did not feel like you fit in

so i would make notes of these under

power column because we need to get them

in this second second sentence

okay now

uh

you do not have to say who the other

family member is i know you know people

want to often want to protect who that

person is or even protect themselves

yeah from coming out and saying it so

don't feel like you have to but

d did that conflict affect any other

relationships like you know

did you feel that there was some

uh

valuing of different family members in

different ways by different people like

has it led to some people are on one

side some people are on another side is

that anything that's happened

yeah it has felt like that um

it's it's felt like there's a bit of a

division

um i'm not estranged from anybody else

um

but

it does feel like there's some

favoritism and

some some taking sides and

and to some degree a lack of um

trying to understand what the bigger

picture is for everybody

whatever is that is that more about you

like they're not understanding you or is

everybody not understanding everybody

i don't know what other people's stances

are they're um

yeah i i guess it would be not

understanding

me but i i'll give them the benefit of

the doubt looking at it

okay but remember the core narrative is

just how you feel with you and

it sounds like you felt like

even within that conflict you felt the

other person was

favored or

um given permission for certain things

where you weren't is that right yeah

um

so i haven't really been able to talk

about it

in case yeah so i want you to make note

of that okay the the feeling of

favoritism now remember we're not we're

not blaming anybody we're just

describing

what your internal experience is like

you felt alone you felt like you didn't

fit in

you felt

unfavored

and not understood

oh definitely not understood yeah okay

put that down

now are you seeing diane how i took what

you said

and i i expanded it out

to make it more

globally related to you

and and i also i'm trying to help you

work through that goodest impulse

to protect everyone right yeah this

isn't an attack on them but i won't let

you sacrifice yourself

in your own core narrative

okay

yeah no i get that

and my tendency to do that yeah right

right so

okay is there any other aspect that we

need to get to

in terms of what this all did to you did

it leave you angry

oh yeah

still angry and um

as we've talked before

still ruminating over it and you know my

pain started in my 20s um or earlier

honestly

um the estrangement started 15 years ago

so

there was stuff happening you know way

back in my childhood

but yeah the anger has been more since

the estrangement and you know lack of

resolution

lack of anyone in my family being

willing to

talk about it sorted out um yeah

that's a bitter pill to swallow so you

you've got you've got anger

bitterness resentment

yeah i think those make perfect sense

but i think they should be in this

sentence

and i know um resolution

i think at one time i thought resolution

would be the opportunity to talk to

people and

just sort it out nicely but that's not

going to happen so no no

has to be internal yeah right and that's

where that third sentence comes in yeah

your plans i think we need to add

another piece about resolution so

let's add in anger

resentment bitterness whatever whatever

words you think apply best it doesn't

matter what i say

okay

all three

yeah

although you're so agreeable i need to

check in are we sure these are your i

don't want them to be my words yeah no

um yeah i feel all of that anger hugely

okay because

don't let me push you around

accidentally you know like i'm not

i don't want to hand you the words at

all i'm only saying this because that's

what i'm hearing yeah i i am agreeable

but i think um in my life in general i

can be

fairly assertive um when i have to be

but i still know that and that's how you

do strike me here yeah i'm just being

extra careful because i know another

part of you okay

um it's it's my family that i've not

ever managed to accomplish that with so

yeah

okay so now let's look back if you look

at that first sentence

and now we move to the second sentence

and we're not just going to talk about

this one family member we're also going

to talk about what happened in the

broader context of your family

how it hurt you

um what it left you feeling

i have one more question and then i

think we're ready to construct that

second sentence uh in a more powerful

way

did these things affect you

in areas of your life outside of the

family did they

affect your social life did they affect

your

marriage

uh and

how that went did they affect your

career all that stuff

yeah um it did it it's effective my

whole life

um at the beginning of the estrangement

i talked about it with friends a fair

bit and then i thought i have to pack

off i mean they don't want to hear me

every time they meet me going on and on

about it so

um

nobody could give me any answers of

course there aren't any

um and in my marriage as well

my husband's been pretty supportive and

you know we were in a fairly new

relationship when all of this happened

and so he didn't see the big picture

and he would say you know why don't you

try and just invite them for tea or do

this or whatever well none of that

worked

but he's begun to see the bigger picture

now

but he also doesn't want to hear about

it all the time so

it's the same old story you know it's i

realized that after a while

it's i've got to find a way as we're

doing with the core narrative to move

through this but not just keep telling

the story over and over again

yes but

we also have to make sure yeah we also

have to make sure though that you don't

stop talking

yeah so there has to be a way to be able

to

this is about the third sentence a way

to say these things

a way to live in it and not compromise

who you are because i think you're

putting yourself away for other people

i understand what you mean

but but i think you're still putting

yourself away for other people a little

bit i'm just gonna go listen to me

well there i i'm gonna show you how it's

gonna work um

we'll get there in a second

uh

does it feel like this infiltrated your

social life in general like are you are

most of your friendships ones where

you do

did it did it

cause you to choose people who did see

you or did it cause you to choose people

who again didn't see you like repeating

that a little bit no i i've been blessed

with really good friends and

um it's not that they don't listen to me

you know in terms of friends i

i've chosen to

just not keep on about it

um

when there is an event when something

comes up it might say something well

this happened whatever so

no it didn't really impact me that way

but i think i am more careful in

choosing new friends now

you know i have a network of friends

that i've had for years but as i meet

new people if i have a sense

of their behavior that

fits into patterns that i experienced as

a child

i just back

back away

does it ever stop you from being as open

with people as you want to be

yeah it does yeah okay write that down

too that's an important one

okay now our job is to mash this all

together

into a

big mashed potato sentence of

getting all that together

okay

so we're basically gonna take this thing

with the one family member and shorten

that into so that's just one part of it

even though that's been very painful and

i do want it represented because

obviously it's incredibly important

although i'm starting to wonder do we

want to bring that into the first

sentence

let me read it again i grew up in a

family that did not allow me to express

who i really was or how i felt which

made me have to live in secret feeling

invisible and sometimes condemned for

who i was even if my parents did their

best

yes i would bring this into the first

sentence and this

has culminated

does that sound like the right word i

don't

this or this has been

this has been most intensely represented

probably the latter yeah that felt more

accurate to me too

this has been most intensely represented

with one family member

and then

the rest the rest of it what you wrote

there i think can stay

this will make the second sentence a lot

easier

okay

and this is interesting too i mean let's

note because

that that difficult relationship was so

important it took up one of the three

sentences

yeah

what that told me is it might be so

important that it needs to be in the

bigger

sentence right it's just that important

yeah

and i can i can relate as you and i have

discussed there there's things

that are very hard about that right yeah

so good i'm glad we got that into the

first sentence now we have a totally

clear second sentence to talk about how

has this impacted you

now let's go over what we have

what were the things we noted

there was a loneness i know that was one

of them

um

feeling of favoritism not understood

um

not fitting in right

angle resolution anger resentment

bitterness

okay inability

of a way to say things

all right i'm going to ask you one more

thing about the outlook of all this

yeah

how has it left you feeling about life

that this is the way things were

or have been

well put a damper on it that's for sure

yeah

um

not what i expected at this point in my

life

yeah

so it's been a profound disappointment

yeah

it has

okay so here's here's a way that i'm

gonna say it a certain way i'm just

putting it out there for you to shape

okay

i would say something like this

um because

because i grew up

this way

or because i experienced these things

that's a better way of putting it

it's not just about growing up

i was left

feeling

a real damper

on life and a profound disappointment

i think um damper is not quite the right

word um

so i'll keep thinking of well let's get

it nailed um

it feels not strong enough to me yeah

yeah so what would the word be uh it

certainly limiting but it's worse than

that

um

okay read back to me what we have so far

i was left feeling a real damper and a

profound disappointment

um

and i i'm just trying to think myself

was it was

it more like a depression

i i don't know if that's too strong a

word now

um

or disillusionment

yeah disillusionment i think

disillusionment and depression um i have

been depressed and i have worked very

hard

to not let myself go in that direction

and

when

when some of the feelings that come up

or you know i start going in circles

thinking things i just think don't go

down that road

um

so

i've worked hard at not being there

um but it hasn't come

naturally it's there so read me the

beginning of the sentence again we're

going to fit this in because i now i

feel like i got this more okay i was

left feeling a real damper

disappointment now we're going to change

instead of damage i was left feeling

disillusioned

sometimes depressed

sometimes should be in there is that

yeah yeah okay

and with a profound feeling of

disappointment

yeah no that i think that's right on

um

okay read it back to me because i want

to now start fitting in the other stuff

okay

i was left feeling

disillusioned sometimes depressed and

sometimes with a profound disappointment

do you want sometimes in there

that second time

um

or is it just no it can come out of

there because it's all the time i think

so yeah that was that was what i was

hearing yeah

i'm only i'm only going to put sometimes

in there when it's accurate yeah in that

area of my life it's it's not a

sometimes yeah

okay

now i got to think about how to phrase

this in a sentence this is the you know

lumping it all together

um we could add the adjectives

and the in the feelings in the original

sentence this left me feeling

alone

disillusioned angry i think that's what

we would need to do

okay

so let's go back through it enlisted um

so alone

because of these experiences i was left

feeling disillusioned

alone

i'm not fitting in

like i didn't fit in i think yeah okay

just you have to think about how you

want to phrase it because you're going

to want to be able to say this back to

yourself some

in some form

right

um like i didn't fit in not

understood

angry

yeah

angry resentful bitter

yep and with some profound

and with with a profound disappointment

okay now we move on to the next part of

the sentence that

okay

that led me to

be careful about getting close to people

yeah did it lead you to question your

own value

um

mostly not i well maybe in the early

days but i worked hard on that too um

so did you question whether other people

valued you

yeah

okay i because that's you you you don't

question your own value which is great

but you do question whether other people

value yeah i i've certainly questioned

my own behavior i mean i look back and

thought

what part of this do i own you know do i

am i responsible for some of this

because i'll own it um

if other people do but

i don't i don't question my

my own internal value i do okay so i

would say you you've questioned whether

other people will see your value maybe

yeah and you

are left with lots of doubt

yes i think is does that right yeah

okay good

now look at that sentence look how much

we packed into that

and it shows how

devastating this actually was and i know

that you're

you're very

kind and forgiving

and that's all good stuff i'm not saying

to get rid of that

but when we're talking about the core

narrative it's kind of a black and white

we're dipping into black and whiteness

yeah

this was devastating yeah it was

and you would have given anything to

change it yeah

this is the heart right here

okay

so

i just wanted to show how if we really

stick very closely to what you actually

need

and we clear out goodism and we don't

make it about just one thing we make it

the broad high stakes

use stuff

yeah it hurts yeah

now here's the good part

the good part is what do you get to do

about it

yeah

and this is about coming to peace with

yourself even if you can't come to peace

with them just like you said

they're not going to be able to have

this conversation but you

can come to peace with yourself so now

let's see what you've got here

in the third sentence ready

okay

i plan now to live with a powerful

version of me

uh i'm just thinking about whether we

want to

i would i would so you've got some

sentences that we're going to bring into

one sense i plan now to live with a

powerful version of me

prioritizing the good people in my life

okay okay now let me ask you this are

you choosing to be able to voice your

anger or are you choosing to

see the validity of your anger

because they're different they're

related

and you could need both

i think um

i think i need to find a healthy way to

express my actually say it okay okay

good

so maybe choosing to be able to voice my

anger when needed

and you know as you've said many times i

don't want to not be a good ass i don't

want to lash out and

no but i do want to get the stuff up and

out of me yeah well i say this to to

anybody watching and i say this all the

time

the power column is not about giving up

goodism it's about using goodism

for a better setup for you

you still you're going to go on and be a

goodness and that's good

you're needed

yeah

okay so we have i plan now to live with

a powerful version of me

prioritizing the good people in my life

choosing to be able to voice my anger

when needed

um okay now you say protect myself by

being fiercely in my own corner which

you know i love that phrase but i want

to get it more specific to you okay

um so i would actually take that out for

now and say recognizing that the kind of

people who dismiss me will not be

treated as significant in any way

okay

yeah okay now i need to ask you

what what is being fiercely in your own

corner

what is it going to mean for you

um

well at this point i think not feeling

so hurt um

and i guess that's where i need to have

help with the next action step um

okay so you you're tell me if i have

this right you're wanting to feel

intact is that right like yeah yeah um

well ultimately i want to

get on and follow the passions in my own

life and do the things that i i want to

do

okay

in order to do that

um

it's the hurts that just keep um

okay all right so actually i'm gonna

alter the language just a little bit

because words matter okay you are

protecting yourself but i think that's

too it's a little too general what

you're really going to do is you're

going to

um

you are going to

um

live your life

and i would and i will live my life

with the primary focus

being

asserting

me

in the world

in a satisfying

powerful

fiercely in my own corner

kind of way

okay i've got half of that down

okay let's go back

i live my life in the

with the primary focus of asserting me

in the world

okay

in a i don't remember exactly what i

said but unfortunately we have it on

tape so you can go back and look but the

um we can say uh something like

allowing me to be

who i am i didn't say that but that's

even better

fully powerful

do you want creative in there is that

important to you i don't know yeah okay

creative

and able to utilize my

skills to help others

through some of the things i have

overcome

the only thing i want to get in there is

i do think fiercely in your own corner

is a good thing to get in there so

i would just add it before that last

part you know you you're going to live

in such a way that is being fiercely in

your own corner

comma and then the other things

sorry

some some of what i do is like editing

yeah yeah

okay

i'm writing it down fairly quickly but

i'll

i'll recognize it and as you say i have

the tape to go back to that exactly so

we have the idea

yeah so now i want to jump back now that

you have the core narrative which

usually does take half of the power

column

session

now we're going to go through are you

able to recognize when you're in power

or not does that feel yeah you got that

good yeah is that something you were

able to do before

you got my system or is that something

you've learned within the system no um

and i i've been aware for years that i

actually found it a really fascinating

area that you know different people that

you work with or people that you meet

socially that could be

quite strong

out there people that i feel really

comfortable with

and then other people that i feel

intimidated with and i think what is it

about that person that is taking me out

of my power place they could be good yep

what is that so yeah i definitely do

okay so now what we're gonna do is

you're gonna list the areas in your life

where power becomes an issue

it can be with yourself

you know just your relationship with

yourself

it can be with particular other people

like that particular family member or

other family members in relation to that

family member

or it could be in relation to

you know a friend or or

it can happen even with people that you

feel comfortable with generally where

you're just like whoa i'm not feeling

powerful right now what's

what's happening here so what are the

main issues that knock you out of power

that's a difficult question i understand

but

yeah i think um

if my self-esteem

i think my self-esteem is reasonably

okay for the most part but if there's

someone that

behaves in a way that um

knocks on my self-esteem in some way

um okay so

is that

do you mean when people do it

willingly or is it something where they

might do it by accident or is it both

mostly

by accident sometimes intentionally

you know sometimes i think people are

trying to build themselves up to be

powerful

maybe not intentionally trying to knock

the people around them down but in the

process they do yep

so yeah that

um

sometimes if i'm around friends that are

talking about things that um

i'm not as familiar with then i that

will set me back

um

and then

like politics i'm not particularly a

political person and if people get into

the nitty-gritty of

this mp or that person

then i start to feel like i don't

measure up to them

mostly i can say

it's okay because i have other areas of

interest and it's just not my thing but

there's times where

okay but when you're when you're feeling

left out yeah or when you're feeling

like you don't fit in that that mirrors

one of those emotional themes and it

even mirrors something in the core

narrative itself yeah it does so we're

gonna need to figure out what are you

gonna do

what's going to be your power action

step about that how are you going to

remind yourself

or deal with it in a new way

that doesn't leave you left out i'll

give you an example

there's no conversation

that i get that i'm part of

that i get left out of

i'll tell you why because

i'm not gonna let that happen

you know so i find a way to make this is

going to sound like i'm making uh being

selfish and making every conversation

about me but it's not

i'm just finding a way that i can relate

to it so i might ask a question i'm like

wait wait i don't understand what is

this

or wait

you know have you ever have you thought

about it this way or oh that makes me

think of this or i'll make a joke

or if i'm not liking it

uh this is an example but sometimes i'll

be talking with a bunch of guys about

sports and and uh my sister-in-law once

complained about this she was like you

guys are all always talking about sports

and i'm like you could just change this

help us change the subject like

yeah go ahead and say

oh my god guys i don't know anything

about this i feel like you know i'm lost

can we talk about this boom we're

talking about something else

so

there are

there's always going to be ways for you

to not be left out i think one of the

things that we're going to say in the

power column is

you've been left out long enough

why should you be left out anymore

ever again

yeah

yeah

it's just not okay

i don't want you left out

and you don't have to be ever again

now

it might take some time

to figure out how to do it but this is

what this is how we do it we identify a

power issue

and then we challenge this this belief

that you're stuck with that because you

can enact something different

once we know that you have been living

in a way that's not fully powerful

i don't blame you you're this is not

your fault that this happened you were

sent a message of you're not important

enough you'll just be left out

but i'm sending you the opposite message

you're too important to be left out

i won't stand for it

okay

and i don't want you to either yeah

okay so now you're gonna need to think

about all right am i leaving myself out

because

of a power dynamic with me

is there something where this person's

kind of trying to shut me out

or is it something where i've i'm

thinking this person's better than me in

some way and therefore i'm shut out

and i i notice these power gradients

in myself

and then i decide to do something about

them every time

so a lot of it is about knowing

recognizing that let's talk about a

couple of other areas are there other

areas that you've noticed

that you feel

um

well here's one you made a note when i'm

in pain feeling vulnerable and not in my

power so this is with the symptoms

you feel that the symptoms knock you out

of control

yeah

how can

how can we assert some some control back

and help you feel that actually you're

in charge i have an idea about this but

do you have thoughts

um

no

okay

okay all right

so here's what i'm thinking yeah

the reason the podcast is called

crushing doubt

is multifaceted but one of them is

you can use

science and logic to reclaim power

over and over and over

so when you're having a symptom you

might be caught in a mindset of thinking

i don't know if i can do this

or i don't know if i'm ever gonna get

better or i never have gotten better

before so why would i now

there could be all kinds of doubt

questions but if you use science and

logic you're going to remind yourself

wait a minute i remember this is all a

mind body thing this is not

structural so i'm not stuck in it

it's all about whether i can change my

mindset

and

part of your mindset may be i can't

change the mindset but if we challenge

that

you can

you can be a different you that's what

we learn to do we learn to to recognize

where am i and what can i do to do this

differently so

your interaction with your symptoms

needs to change too

at those moments how how much of that

could be um

subconscious or is it all

reachable is it all in your conscious

mind

um

that's a great question no a lot of it

is unconscious but once we start talking

about it it becomes more and more

conscious right

and the more you think about it the more

conscious it becomes and the more

conscious it is the more access you have

right

okay yeah that makes sense so like i

didn't i didn't know about a lot of it

but once i was able to think about it

it just starts to unfold and this is

something i want you to trust

if you can

and you probably have seen some of it

the more you think about these issues

the further you get with them

you're just expanding the landscape that

you can stand on

about it

so

so as an example you know if i'm

having a lot of symptoms and i'm feeling

vulnerable i can

you know say to myself um

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it's all in my head this is all in my

mind i i'm not vulnerable i actually am

powerful

and then just switch out of it

well listen

uh

that might work

but it might not because it depends on

whether you believe it first of all i

wouldn't say it is in your head i'd say

it's from your head

because if

and the reason i say that is not to say

oh you should have said it differently

but

i pick up on the subtle words that are

going to set you up for

success or for a problem

if you describe it as in your head you

might be subtly criticizing yourself

saying this isn't even real

yeah

it is real

it's becoming real physiologically

but the good news is

it's only fear

that's it the only way that it can win

is through fear and doubt yeah yeah so

it might hurt

but it cannot harm you anymore

right there's no lasting harm

yeah

okay yeah that makes sense

so do you see how to see the difference

in what you said versus what i said

what i said is

it got into

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basically it was like i wasn't going to

settle for what you said not because

what you said was bad but because you

didn't believe what you said

if you don't believe it doesn't help

right yeah but what i said you can

believe

and so you're going to practice finding

the way to towards belief if you find

yourself saying

something some kind of self-talk but you

don't believe it

don't continue to say it

wonder what am i not believing and what

could i say that i can believe

yeah

yeah that makes sense

yeah

okay

let's go

over a couple of other ones

you said i feel robbed of the ability to

do the things that were my passion now

we know that you had the the transplant

and all kinds of things happen

so

you feel robbed of the ability to do

things that were your passion helping

others in a more meaningful way than you

were able to

the ability to do many active things

that you thrived on so

you did feel robbed

and that

hurts a lot

and there are some things that you know

you may not be able to get back per se

but here's some powerful antidotes to it

there's still powerful things you can do

there's still these skills that you have

and ways to help people you want to help

people

yeah yeah and i i don't want to um

sit with feeling

um

robbed of things that i couldn't do the

past that i can't change and

that is gone but there are lots of

things that i can do that

i still have a passion for right and

here's the thing power exists in the

present and the future

yeah it doesn't exist in the past

the past is gone so yeah what we can do

instead is think

how can you be powerful now

i'll tell you like

on my youtube site you're powerful there

you say you say important things

and that's just one place

yeah but you have no idea how powerful

you can be

you could end up being a lot more

powerful than you were before

well i hope so

yeah here's here's another way i'm not

suggesting anything in particular but

this is how people end up writing books

they start to think you know what

i have something to say

i do

i mean i had to get past that leap to

start writing my book

i don't know what it's going to take to

get back to finishing my book but

i'm i'm getting close yeah i'm nearly

busy right now that's the problem but um

but i do say the longer the book

takes to get written the better it gets

in a lot of ways so yeah you know and

there really is something to that but

it's time

but i did have to first decide you know

what i am somebody who has something

worth saying

so the whole idea of power is to find a

way

to accept the fullness of your trauma

and that's part of when we went through

that's one part of it the other part is

getting to feeling valid

and then the third part is getting to

feel

at peace

or aligned with yourself

so in the core narrative we i think we

did kind of help you accept your trauma

a little more fully even today

because i didn't

settle for a more general take and i

also didn't settle for the overly

specific one that missed the fullness of

it and when we got there you had a lot

of emotion and understandably so

that's the sign of a good core narrative

you don't have to cry in a core

narrative necessarily for it to be a

good one but if you do

it's a good bet that you're on to

something

yeah

so we got to that but now we need to get

to the other aspects of power

um

you know how can you feel at peace with

your core self and how can you feel

powerful actually and active

and able to take each thing and say i'm

gonna do something you know like

being active for example i don't know

what you can do from a medical

standpoint

um i'm not i mean i used to be super

active like um

athletic active like

skiing out of bounds and

diving and those things i can't do but

it's not like i'm in a wheelchair either

you know i'm i've also gotten older in

all of this time so

i can still walk um

you know i'm i'm not skiing or hiking

but i can get out and do things

okay well if there are things that

you're medically limited in

then you might be limited in those but

yeah don't let

pain or symptoms be limiting the

limitating that's an interesting word

limiting factor that's a really good

point it's um

and it has been the pain and symptoms

that have limited some things so some

things

hopefully right like i mean i i don't

know if just as an example if

if you are allowed to go on a kind of

more rigorous hike and that's fine

but the symptoms are stopping you yeah

well then then our job is in the power

column is to not let the symptoms stop

you from that and to actually have you

take over there

if it's a medical limitation like okay

well now you can't go skiing out of

bounds for whatever reason

yeah you could follow the medical stuff

yeah

yeah i can't travel off the beaten track

anymore um but there's the whole world

out there once covet is

sorted so yeah i also wanted to just say

something and i think this will be

useful for you just to to know

um

sometimes it happens that your body

tells you when we're right on to

something

and i think one thing i i've noticed in

our consultation so far is this will be

kind of this will be a little bit uh it

might make you a little self-conscious

but it's worth it

sometimes when i say something that's

right on

you start to get a cough

oh

yeah and

so i think there's some i i work i work

with somebody else who always yawns when

i say the right thing

um

and so we've taken it as a sign

and i want you that's another way to be

powerful is to pay attention to your

body yeah and don't be afraid about when

it tells you something's right

it watch it'll never happen again now

that i've acknowledged it but that's

fine

we want to start to listen to to the

body um and

you know here's another thing you said

about the power column you you sometimes

feel i don't have what it takes to turn

this around now that's that's a doubt

it's a doubt column thing in some ways

but

um cough if you need to it's fine

i'm honestly i

no i do apologize because i hate when i

make people self-conscious but

this idea of i don't have what it takes

to turn this around

that is taking yourself down a peg in

the power department

and you have to ask yourself do i

deserve to be taken down in the power

department am i really

any less

able

that dan is or anybody else

the fact is you're not you

are just as strong as i am

yeah yeah i i think i am and um

and i do feel like i have something to

say and like many people you know

reading or hearing other people's

experiences

helps me um and i have you know through

my life gone back and

read books and been inspired and i think

okay mom you know now it's time for me

to do that to

help people coming behind me that are

going through some of the things that

i'm currently going through

right so yeah

now i'm going to finish up on one thing

because you also mentioned ruminating

and

that's something we want to get you free

of so when you're ruminating

we want i want you to think about that

as a power issue

you know most people think of it as a

frustrating repetitive thought

but instead i want you to think of it as

that is you taking away your power in a

way

because you don't really want to be

thinking about that yeah that's a good

point

so this is some of how we work with

these things when we come back to the

action steps of the power column we'll

be able to say even more about it but

this was a a very good

building block

we've got you your core narrative

we looked at those issues in terms of

the three levels of power and

when you're out of it when you're in it

yeah you even started to talk about some

action steps because you did some so

much work in advance yeah

and so

when when you're saying with the

rumination that when i find i'm doing it

that i think oh you know i'm just

decreasing my own power doing this

exactly just an awareness

yes and that awareness and that new way

of thinking about that

situation could change the entire

picture yeah

yeah that totally makes sense that um

and you know what's amazing is we may

have just solved your rumination problem

right here yeah

yeah it's

just just the awareness thinking oh here

i go again yeah right well

the reason that things persist is

because we don't understand them

i i saw the light bulb go off there this

is where the neural pathways argument

actually doesn't make a whole lot of

sense

your neural pathways just shifted and

they'll never go back because you just

learned something

yeah

yeah and i think i had thought that the

resolution to that would be

something bigger and more complicated

and it's like oh okay that's i know

isn't it interesting it's often just

about understanding it the right way

yeah yeah for sure so i'm i'm glad

because that's another thing you got out

of this session so yeah all right diane

we'll we'll

we'll meet for our the the last of the

four sessions but of course i don't go

away

yeah if you need me to think things

through i'm here i want you fully better

i want you fully understanding this and

i want you fully accepting

of your trauma and of who you are and of

what you need

and how you're going to enact it

i will be and thank you for your help

and yeah it's it's been an honor to be

able to help you with this as well well

i do appreciate it and i'm i'm very

admiring of you for opening up in this

way

and you did a great job as usual so i

look forward to our last session

together for now

and then we keep in touch and we get you

what you need all right sounds good

thank you all right diane okay see you

soon bye-bye bye

diane is just such a treasure of a

person uh i'm

everybody i have on here i'm blown away

by but what i love about this group of

people that i work with is

not just the goodest aspect because some

people aren't actually goodis they have

the mind-body aspects they're not

truly good as even though they're good

people but diane is a true goodest and i

really enjoy

working with someone like her and

helping her

be able to channel that in a better way

that sacrifices herself less one thing

that you saw is when we built her core

narrative in a way she was being careful

with everyone even in it

and the core narrative is just for you

so i know it's harder when you're you

know on a podcast doing it but when

you're creating your core narrative it's

just for you nobody needs to know about

it

uh and you've got to say it in the way

that works for you that honors who you

are

so

i think she did a great job with that

and i also just wanted to highlight one

other thing we got to something right at

the end that was really interesting

which is

when you get a new way of understanding

something like the ruminations being a

power issue

you could see her shift you could see

how now she felt like ah i have a new

handle on this

and that was exciting to see

so

we will turn to the fourth session with

action steps next week and i look

forward to it if you haven't already

click subscribe ring the bell for

notifications hit like if you like what

you're hearing and put your comments

below and i'll get back to you

personally

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you