How African Startups Quietly Built Billion Dollar Outcomes

Africa is not a probability. It's not a

potential. It's been working and making

money for many many people for

centuries. That's why we were color

blinds because there was value to

extract.

>> What is making you excited? Are there

opportunities that people are not

looking at but you're like people should

really look into these things.

>> Yeah. So I think the biggest opportunity

is the

>> I Abraham Sagna is the founder of

silverback holdings allocating capital

across African technology culture sport

and entertainment deciding which African

ideas scale and which remain local

>> you've led and been a part of nine exits

with silverback holdings right what is

has been you guys' thesis and your

approach to getting exits with

silverback holdings

>> the secret sauce for us at two different

climbs so the first ladder or the first

axis

is what we call the axis of going from

possible to probable to inevitable. So

that axis is really the core of our

structure and we give 10% of our aum to

the fund managers nine for now.

>> Can you name some African companies that

you feel like have done a good job of

giving that a door?

>> Mono the Mono deal just got announced um

they got acquired by Flutterwave. I

believe it was an allstar deal for about

$30 million. Right. Can you demystify

this whole all stock deal acquisition?

>> That type of transaction is

>> we see the tweets and every single day

what we see is we love Afropolitan. This

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join the Afropolitan family. Thank you.

Ibraim. So, someone's going to click on

your specific video and they may be

winding down from a long day. They may

be on their way to work or maybe they're

simply just taking a walk. So, the first

thing I want you to tell the Afropolitan

audience is the opportunity to invest in

Africa. Why does it still matter?

>> Chica, great to be here to finally be

here with uh you and my brother. It's

been long overdue.

>> Y

>> I'm um

I'm just first delighted by that foot

question because you know one of the

superpowers you guys have is delightful

question.

So I would say the first answer is it

must be done because Africa

is not a probability it's not a

potential it's been

>> doing well. It's been working and making

money for many many people for

centuries.

That's why we were colonized because

there was value to extract.

>> Exactly.

>> If it was a to not borrow the name of

some uh government official then

uh capital

asset and resources would not be

extracted in terms of the legacy we have

in terms of value. it the most visible

one is obviously natural resource that

continue to be extracted whether it's

oil

but humans human labor has constituted

an industry called slavery

and also if you take a country like

France it extracts net income of 14

countries 45% of their net income

>> that's capital extraction

>> so I think at the very macro level you

can see there's reason to invest.

>> Yeah.

>> Now, if governments do it,

>> then people should do it. I would say

that's the first fundamental reason why

it must be done by others.

>> I actually like that answer. I feel like

most people just say, "Oh, there's this

thing and this opportunity, but the fact

that you put it so cleanly and said,

well, the governments are doing it, so

you might as well follow suit." Like, I

actually really like how you frame it. I

think the next conversation I want to

lead into with that is what is making

you excited, right? Are there

opportunities that maybe people are not

looking at but you're like people should

really look into these things.

>> Yeah. So I think the biggest opportunity

is the core idea of the company we

created which is silverback where we

decided to take a simple idea

>> and take it extremely seriously and that

idea is with the advance of technology

there's a unprecedented opportunity

for a boy or a girl that's doing

something phenomenal at home

to add similar value for someone in many

other continent and that is something

that is a resounding idea. We have been

able to attract investors towards we've

been able to basically get local

entrepreneurs to get the courage

audacity

to start exporting their services in

other people's home

>> because when you open your Instagram

your Google is the same thing that has

happened from an American boy.

>> Yeah. You've led and been a part of nine

exits with Silverback Holdings, right?

But I know you're going to be making an

announcement here as well where there's

going to be a 10th exit,

>> correct?

>> Right. With the Mono

>> Mono,

>> I want you to explain to our audience

what is Silverback Holding getting

right. And I'm not saying obviously

investors don't always get everything

right, but what is has been you guys'

thesis and your approach to getting

exits with silverback holdings? So

>> sorry for our audience, Lenfi,

Flutterwave, a who's who of like African

tech ecosystem, but these are some of

the exits that you guys have been a part

of.

>> Yeah. So I think all of this started

with um I think these are all still uh

strikes of luck. It's true that we've

had 10, but I think uh even when luck

hits you, you need to be ready. So I

think there's a lot of preparation for

that luck to hit us. And I would say the

the secret sauce for us has been working

u at two different clims. I'm going to

use the image of climbing an axis. So

those two axis are crit we climb an axis

with fund managers. So we're backing so

far nine funds since we started this

because this journey started because as

myself and the other partners we're

angels working with fund managers and

working with them we discovered talent

and then that's that journey that we

were doing at as our night job that

became our day job that's how the

transition went from working for a large

DFI like a exam that was managing $ 37

billion

safe job doing everything you can wish

meeting president having a agenda on the

continent to basically seeing that

there's something super exciting here.

So the first ladder or the first axis is

what we call the axis of going from

possible

to probable to inevitable.

So we believe that the fund managers

expose us to all the possibilities.

So in the continent since 2016

there's been a,350

and change companies that raise over

$100,000.

So through these nine managers we've

been exposed to 264

companies. So it's almost 25%.

Shy of that number. But as we add fund

managers, you will be able to basically

get exposure to 20 to 25% of the market.

So they are the hunters of

possibilities.

I'm 50.

>> I don't have the energy to hunt.

>> I'm happy to be a farmer.

>> Yeah.

>> So are my team. We're pretty much

veterans. I'm actually part of the youth

in my team.

A lot of members in uh of silverbacks

are over 60. So another good chunk is

under 50. But we our average age is

definitely over 40 plus. I would say

that our media team is actually the cool

kids going from 20 to 35. But everybody

on the investment side is much older. So

to go from that possibility tranch

then we give money to those fund

managers and we evolve to a tranch that

we call the probable tranch where that's

how we invested in mono and all these

nine exit is basically over time when

these guys invested in these companies

fluctued

in 2017 so by 201819 it was clear that

something was happening with GB. So it's

SPV start coming out. So the SPV kind of

give you an opportunity to kind of just

focus your additional money on fluctu

alone your additional money on move

alone your additional money on CUDA

alone on omnire just so that passage

from possible to probable is where we

put additional and a lot more money.

>> Now there's a next level to the access

which is inevitable.

So when would you see that the company

is really becoming just

in terms of revenue growth in terms of

the acceleration of collecting investors

on the cap table in terms of uh

direction towards profitability.

But we had something that we really

started loving which is these companies

trying to go outside of Africa and as

you know you guys being diaspora like

myself there was an army of those

companies. So we could see that that

small tranch of unique companies that

were inevitable because they had already

successfully conquered the continent and

now have the audacity

>> to conquer foreign countries. It seems

to be something in fashion these days.

We felt that it was important to pay

attention to it and track that. So that

access of going from possible

>> probable to inevitable is really the

core of our structure and we give 10% of

our AUM to the fund managers nine for

now. Now what we do is we leave 70%.

Solely for the inevitable and in the

middle there's going to be some

probability play and in technologies

there's a lot of fund managers but as

you know we cover other sectors where

there's not managers who can be the

hunters while we can be farming. So we

that access we really for us is the

farming exercise and that's where we

able to as it grows

recover the face value of our

investment. That's where the gap has

been. I mean, our lowest return has been

1.3 times cash with a gaming company in

France actually called Dual Universe.

And then it stacks up to 3.7 with CUDA.

then gets to five point five times with

Omni Retail, 5.1 with move, 9.7 with a

company called Kazabbana,

24 times with uh Flatwave and 29 being

Lambi. But as those exit exercise happen

and we give money back to the initial

investors, most of them and most of our

investors are a lot of them Middle

Eastern. So there's not necessarily the

alignment. There's a lot of things they

can do at home to make money. But for

us, it was very important to let them

see profit from investing in Africa

because obviously that question is

always in people's mind. Uh and and to

convince anybody, I think money

is a convincing tool.

>> Yeah.

>> They're not doing it for the reason

we're doing it. For us it was very

important for them to see liquidity in a

timely manner. So we have a committee

internally who at any given point it's

like okay where are we getting money

from? Who are we paying people back

>> so that they can be our agency. We have

no investor relationship. Most funds

have a few people that are just uh doing

that. We believe our investors are the

one that have to evangelize. They they I

mean we're just giving them this

engineering bragging rights for them to

actually go I've invested in Africa from

where they are whether it's European

investors or Middle Eastern investors.

I'm sure people be like how are you

making money in that scary looking place

and I think that's been uh the funnel it

has created uh next level. So I would

say that that's that approach has been

the biggest key to success. But that's

just one access. So the other axis is

what we do internally like the we

basically believe that going once we

find the inevitable

uh the inevitable fits with another axis

that we call the axis of working with

operators from them being

disliked

to being liked

to being loved and then being adored. So

that access is from likable to adorable.

And the difference those words are not

usually um studied carefully. But love

as a term is not about attraction of

attributes. That's actually liking. When

you like someone or a product, you're

attracted to their attribute. Boy, girl,

product. Love is actually tolerance of

defects. That's family, spouse, brother,

siblings is basically you know the

person I take you as you are. I accept

you as a whole. So it's actually an

emphasis

>> on your inconveniences.

The level up is adoration

is where it's no longer about

attribute or defects. It's actually

about selfidentification.

That's religion, sports, fashion,

>> music,

>> music, brand where you've decided that

this is me. There's nothing you can

explain. Most religion are the same.

That'll be bomb killing another person

and you'll find an excuse to make it

make sense because it's unmaring

yourself with you. Yeah,

>> that is the highest level of

stickiness. You

>> know, in school and business school, we

learn about business stickiness. We

think that's the highest point of

stickiness. And we think that in the

tech space, the biggest manifestation of

that is Apple.

>> Yeah.

>> Like a lot of us have Apple phone.

>> The phone has wala plenty, but

>> we will be swearing by it. And in fact,

>> it it is a hot it works like a if you

think about Apple,

>> it works like a compound.

You closed, you elect to close yourself

from the rest of the world. You decide

to be hostage to that situation because

you feel elite in it and you cannot

explain it. Even if the other space has

better, you're happy with it. And if

someone attacks your brand, you take it

personally. and also other brands if the

studies were Samsung showing that

Samsung owners

>> get annoyed at

the Apple but the Apple people don't

care about the Samsung people.

So all that is storytelling when you

think about it. So we think that our

duty on the other acts is to extract

those inevitable

and likable companies and spend the time

around our media assets and partners

like yourself to elevate the story so

they can graduate from

lovable to adorable cuz once people

espouse your story identify with you

become more difficult to instruct a

separation. Yeah,

>> you remember that time I walked into a

bank. I'm not going to give the name and

I asked them for $1,000 and they told me

no, they cannot withdraw any dollar for

me. And I was so upset and I just

remember asking everybody, how can I

solve this issue and I'm so happy that I

finally have VBAN to finally solve this

issue for me.

>> You know, the thing is you should be

able to have access to your money

anywhere in the world when you get paid,

right? So, I'm grateful we have VBN as a

sponsor of Twit podcast. With VBN,

you're able to get paid in foreign

currencies, whether it's pounds, USD,

euros, and you can actually spend it in

local currency as well. Now, you're also

able to get a virtual card which you can

use to spend in and pay for services

across the world, right? So, I'm

grateful to have VBN as a sponsor.

>> You can download it on the Apple or

Google Play Store. And remember when you

sign up you use afropolitan so they know

you came from this podcast. I was

telling someone that I feel like the

greatest startups in the world are

religions, right? If you think about it,

started in places and billions of users

or billions of believers,

>> many billions over the time of our

>> over time, right? And it stayed the the

course of time. But I want you for our

audience's sake because obviously we

know the inner workings of when you say

24x 3x um I believe I was reading

something from Sam Alman last year where

he said he's come to believe that time

and market is the last arbitrage left

and I think his point was you know there

companies like uh South Bank

>> who obviously were early investors in

Nvidia they had held long-term like

returns that fund like multiple times

over right

>> now everything is better in hindsight

right

>> now with your thesis and I completely

understand your thesis you're saying

liquidity in of itself is a storytelling

mechanism

>> and you have those investors who've

invested now go out there to be agents

for silverback holdings but mostly

African investments in general

>> correct

>> now for our audience's sake could you

explain like let's take a for example or

maybe even a move or any other companies

that you've exited from I don't think

you've exited from move yet but other

companies you've exited from how does it

actually work? So, Lenfi announces a $53

million series B

>> raise and silverback is already on the

cap table. Do you dilute your entire

shares? Do you sell a part of your

shares? How does it work for our users

who are like, I want to understand how

this actually works because you're

exiting at series B whereas most of

these companies or investors sometimes

prefer to wait till an acquisition or

IPO or a merger acquisition. So, just to

give the inner workings of what that

actually looks like.

>> Sure. So I think uh all those names

you've given LFI KUA and all of them

were still there but I think the the

example that we're the proudest of is

move

>> move okay

>> so move is a company where we invested

as few angels

um but probably our entire ticket site

collective was $750,000

>> I see a seat. The valuation was $65

million

>> at seed.

>> This was one of the This was round A

plus.

>> Okay.

>> Pre A pre A.

>> Okay.

>> So post round I think it landed at 85 or

something like that.

So then it did a round at 200 then

around at 300.

Then the last round with liquidity

injection was Uber coming in at 750.

So between that when it hit 750

>> million

>> million.

>> Yeah. Make it clear last $750,000.

>> When the $750 million hit, we basically

did two things at the same time before

it hit that number. We took some people

out because already at that juncture

there was a room for people to make over

4x

and as we were removing some people

think almost

take the image of a classroom with a set

amount of seats and one teacher being

the founder.

Our rule in general, we don't want this

founder to see us

all the student leaving the class. We

actually want the founder to see more

student asking for more chairs. So

that's what's happening. So there's

people leaving but as these people are

leaving we raising our hand to the

founder say by the way I want more

chairs. If I cannot get it from the

founder I call my fund managers who are

exposed and I buy it from them. So our

funds like us because we have three

points of getting liked. First we give

them a first check. Second we co-invest

with them. But then if there's something

we really adore then we come to you.

We're like oh yeah I'm going to buy it

off you. So it creates DPI for them. So

out of the nine we've given to DPI to

four of them. We bought a position fully

from them. And in fact,

if we like a name sufficiently enough,

we may buy your entire exposure or your

SPV. So that's how we've with the case

of move. The initial story was 750

check. There's been exit, but today our

overall standing in move is close to $40

million. Because as a company, we've

we've got in when there was seven cars

that those two Nigerian British guys

were

shipping onto Uber system.

>> And wait, can you explain what Move is

for those who don't know that company?

>> Sure. Sure. I think Move is very

misunderstood by the community. Move has

always been viewed as a

founder that created a solution

for the gig economy drivers. It is a

byproduct of their solution. But the

cost of the solution was solving a

problem

>> for Uber which is any given day one of

the 300

most capitalized company in the globe.

So imagine you're sitting in London. is

a problem in Legos but the problem

you're solving is for one of two better

200 best credits in the globe and how uh

those guys are super ingenious each of

them this is their third entrepreneur

iteration so that's to us be has become

from all the data we've been able to

oversee the single biggest signal for

success is a second act, what do you

call a second act? Someone must have had

a first act before and have done fairly

okay and do a full pivot, a full

spin-off. And when they did this, they

actually pitched to Uber while they were

running a successful business. You know,

JC Deso that you find in Europe or an

airport, they were the the Africa. Yeah.

So they were the one doing it here in

Nigeria and across many African

countries.

>> So they were like pitching for that and

Uber told them about their problem

>> and they came to the solution that

clearly billboards are not going to

solve their problem. Their problem was

when they use cars in um US, Europe,

customers are rel typically four to

seven times happier in terms of surveys

than they experience in Nigeria other

parts and the common feedback was often

not necessarily about the driver but it

was about the car and as you know a lot

of times you'll open your Uber app

whether you're here in some place in the

Middle East you ask for comfort or or

top of the line and the car arrives,

you're like, "Oh, yeah.

>> I'm going to walk."

>> Yep.

>> I don't want I don't want to call it any

brands, man. But dropped me way before

the arrival point cuz I don't want to be

seen.

>> Want to be seen,

>> right? All that is just too much

gymnastics. So, these guys came up with

a great solution. They're like, "All of

you uh operators like Uber, Airbnb, you

are dating apps." Because when you think

about all their old dating apps, they're

just matching someone ambulance

>> and someone is a car. Boom.

>> Marry up for a few minutes.

>> Airbnb the same. So they basically told

them in this case it's pretty much of a

threesome.

>> You need to separate the guy and the car

and bring the three parties. We will

handle that car top of the line and you

need to give us access into your data

and your selection so that we match your

top quality driver with the car he

deserves. So he can remove the problem

>> out of the equation. So that that is

fundamentally what they became which is

when you think about it's AI before AI.

>> It was matching good behavior with good

asset. M

>> so that matching principle

was very powerful because even if you're

in a country like Nigeria or South

Africa with all its issue whether it's

currency whatever what you are holding

is a pretty defensive asset which is a

car. So when you have cars, you know,

they they pretty much whether you in

Nigeria or not, it's a kind of pegged to

international currency asset, especially

if there's someone that promises that

they will buy it from you. So the deal

from most in most cases is we get this

supply of cars and we push it into your

best drivers. Your drivers pay us over

time. But because the party that allows

you to push the cars into the system are

not the driver, it's actually the

employer.

If the driver start doing 419 just call

his boss like Oya this guy Adi this guy

this guy Ibrahim I beg. So Uber can

simply take the car from

and give it to Ad.

So the the risk so for us we saw very

early that the level of risk when you

embed your business performance in such

a high credit customer and global

customer you just have to perform each

time you perform he will give you more

work and that customer was everywhere.

That became really the flywheel

>> under which move expanded and after that

added bolt and us we were invested in

few of those we invested in swivel we're

so we introduced them to to some of our

portfolio company a couple of them

became deals so that's revenue for them

we're not a broker we actually a

portfolio manager if you guys can find a

way to do a deal mashah so but now that

operator To go back to the initial story

when there are seven when we came in

seven cars today they have 40,000 cars

their revenue was 7 million when we came

in their revenue is like flirting with

is well over $300 million. So just think

about that journey all in six years what

we can see. So obviously from the

pyramid where we are we see a lot of

things because all the our friends fund

managers we work with expose us to

almost 300 companies. So you can clearly

see a student and a student. You can see

a rockstar and a lagard. So for us we

could clearly see the ascendance and the

the protection they were getting because

that company was growing on the back of

it didn't doesn't need to grow on too

many companies. You just have a very

solid company. Uber was a the armor then

it became bolt grab at some point they

had swivel tr and now they've added

whimo and the definition of whimo is

google.

It's one of the most present customer of

what we call magnificent 7. If your job

is to service that guy

that's a very good client and boss to

have

>> for your journey. So for that we think

that so that 750 has become 40 million.

So for us it's it's a it's a crisp manif

manifestation of of climbing that

emotion ladder that I gave you which is

we think these guys we like them. Wow,

we love them now. Like and that

expansion, that emancipation

now would argue Africa is not anymore

the largest side of the business. It's

actually a number we know, but that

number would surprise you. So they've

become so dominant in other market like

Brazil, they have the biggest player in

the entire country

and they're also in Japan. But they also

are probably the biggest player

>> global company.

>> It's fully global and also in the US.

They're the one expanding way more in

Miami, in Phoenix and London. They'll be

the only one doing it in London. So just

try to to frame that in the mind that

these two Nigerian British basically as

those cars get laid out across the city

that entity called Google is going to

use them

>> to lay out the service of these

driveless cars and they will be the main

party doing it and as as long as you

perform

>> they'll just give you more work

>> and that work is all paid in foreign

currency.

You know, I like this analogy you give,

right, of of a a brand specifically

moving, you know, from this kind of like

all the way to door. Can you name some

African companies that you feel like

have done a good job of giving that a

door

>> or is it just it at religion?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think I think

there's a few brands on the continent

that are doing a good job. I think when

you think about the work

I think a few of them have managed to

reach like to love Adora has been

limited but I think if you think about

MTN everywhere you want to be that

yellow is encrusted in you wherever you

go you know you go to other countries a

lot of people land in other countries do

you have empty air

>> that says a lot about the mental damage

it has done for you cuz you assume that

you arrive in a African country the the

the brand

that deserving of you

>> is that brand.

>> Yeah. I would argue

is a lot more present and you know has

done I would argue in many places is

better but MTN has done that

>> true

>> job and and that is done as you know as

a brand person by association cuz the

events MTN sponsors are not any event so

it's all about where you get seen

>> mind share

>> mind sharing so when you so basically I

would argue that the power of being at

that

is who is your crew, right? Because

basically when you think about religion,

each of them

picked a prophet that was a talent that

did a set of thing and that set of

things is what

transpired

thousands of years later

even though although we we're not seeing

none of us have materially seen those

things but that set of action. So I

think these brands like MTN that have

done phenomenal job at that level on the

continent I can think of uh others I

would say

uh on the on the music side locally

I would argue that Maven has done a

great job if you think about it they

could have just been a mom and pop shop

getting singers but they've really done

a certain set of step I Because it was

that prede

>> and all of us who were there at the time

consuming avidly

>> we saw the bans as the core essential

element

>> but once he separated he's like you know

what if I've managed to do it with you I

can do it with many at scale

industryally and then associating

himself with top brand I mean he had TPG

TPG is one of the top 10 private equity

firm in the globe to go from making

music in Legos to land at that guy being

in your cap table. That's a journey. And

then it's not I would argue it's not by

it's not random that out of all the

Nigerian singers we know, you have one

of the singers called calm that makes

calm down and that song is being sung

with Indian singers and at the time the

biggest singer in the US of A.

>> Yeah.

>> So I would say that there's a a few

action there's a bit of uh in input you

need to kind of engineer to get that

output. I I don't think any of those

those things are accidental.

>> And then I want to switch to because

you've also done some interesting

whether it's, you know, investing or or

or building around culture, right? Um so

one of the things I want to talk about

was like Forever 7 went to number one in

Nigeria. Like what made you get part of

those type of projects, especially

coming from your background? Did you was

there something you saw maybe your time

at AfxM or maybe just in general some

notes you saw around investing in

culture and sports?

>> So I always thought that um

African culture was uh

often borrowed

without the right tax payment

that's uh permanent.

So for me I think I have an in inner

bias

that uh I think can distort my

objectivity but I do believe it it's

anchored in me that it's impossible that

the story of Africa started with

colonization and slavery and then you

give me like

uh blurry TV series about the Moors

dominating Europe but I have no data

there But when it's about slavery and

colonization, I have libraries.

>> Yeah.

>> So I think something in the depiction of

our entire timeline

>> is off.

>> Yeah. And uh and if you take even in the

bad

perception of our brand which is slavery

and colonization and uh messed up

countries

even with that thematic cover

there was acceptance that whether it's

music on their side whether it's hip-hop

whether it's art whether it's sports

it's always us. So that's despite the

thematic cover. So there's already an

acceptance that you'd like to export our

culture.

So that acceptance has always been

there. So what I would argue is if there

was not a thematic how much is really

extracted towards export.

>> I would argue that culture, natural

resource and money, right? For me, I

always point to the fact that my I come

from Sagal. The franophhone countries

are positioned as the subsidiary of

France. In the meantime, they're the LP.

France is a GP that's getting money from

people, but he's not calling them boss.

He's calling them servant. That's

fundamentally what France has done. So,

I think there's different tactical move

parties do, but the value of exporting

culture we've always had. So for me uh

working at African bank uh running the

investment bank side we were I would say

that that's probably the institution

that was more

outspoken about making

uh Africa uh culture and global Africa

including the Caribbean

merged.

So

uh I think here in Nigeria was boi. So

we worked a lot and got very inspired by

the work of industries.

>> Yeah, Bank of Industries because they

were one of the first to really venture

in that space. I would say they're

probably an unspoken leader in their

actions.

So when I wanted to do movies, being

humble enough to know that, oh, you've

just been a finance geek

and business person your whole life.

This is a territory you don't know.

I started

with a couple of member of my team to

see what can we borrow from what we were

doing while in tech because the tech was

already working. We were not

communicating yet.

So we thought that we needed to find

someone that could demonstrate,

you know, going from that uh poss

possible to probable to inevitable. That

was hard to tell cuz there's so many

movie producers

>> in Nigeria. We know them. We see them.

We see their movie. A lot of time you

don't know the number. So the gymnastic

of knowing the numbers. But we got lucky

because during COVID uh there was this

lady uh that was that owned Bistro 7 and

her brother was at YPO with me.

>> Oh, Bro 7.

>> Yes. And she sold Bro 7 to MI.

So that's already a first act of an

entrepreneur trying to do something. And

also there's a rebel sign because she

comes from a very established family in

Nigeria that moved from India. They have

a family business but she decided to go

into restaurant and now wanted to do a

movie. She does that movie Namaste Wala.

It's a super hit. Everybody knows it.

And then namaste wala for us was the

biggest data point we needed to

basically see that that passage from

possible to probable and postcard was a

second movie was the same idea. So the

question is could that probable if you

do it twice for us it'd be inevitable.

Why? because

she was in what we call in tech she was

onto a secret and she had built a

monopoly. She was the only person making

romantic comedies between black and

brown people and not any black and brown

people.

>> The largest population on earth of black

people which is Nigeria and the largest

population of brown people which is

India. So when we all talk about total

addressable market

>> it's like the full pie

>> that was like a 1.6 six billion

to that's without the diaspora of each

of those countries.

>> And then we looked around there's nobody

else that was doing such movie except

one person

>> the mother of Mam Dani had done the

movie between Denza

>> Mani

>> yes that's what she had done like 30

plus years and nobody has exploited that

gender since. So for us, the way we're

looking at her as a producer is pretty

much as a fund manager that's just going

to double and triple into that single

secret. So she's done Namaste Wala was

one movie postcard is a series, but she

owns the IP of each of those. So Netflix

sits on it three to five years after

they give it back to you and you can do

a number two. So if you are versed with

fun managers, they have a fun one, fun

two, fun three. For us, each of these

movies like fun one, fun two. When she

gets back the right, she can do fun two,

we can show up again and just do sequel.

And you would we studied the fact that

romantic comedies are probably the most

successful genre globally.

>> Yeah.

>> And then if you can have

a a fruitful IP, you can explore two to

three two or three episodes. Now she's

doing a cartoon

>> but the cartoons roughly same concept.

There's a Indian and Nigerian in the

Nigerian school here in Lagos. So and in

that school because it's an

international school. There's some

Chinese, there's some European but it's

real about culture. So we felt that if

you wanted to explore culture, we still

wanted to stay within our common theme

which is Africa to the world. So she

allowed us to do that in a nimble

fashion. So we keep on looking for other

producers that can allow us to do the

same. So some of the ideas could be

Nigerians and another culture. But

around marriage, when you think about

it, marriage of people from different

cultures, different religion has always

been a problem. myself as a synagogue

Muslim married to a Nigerian EU

Christian. You can only imagine how that

investment committee was complex

and that those stories always sell.

>> They always uh cuz there's a lot of

challenge and think about the

storytelling

the challenge the underdog

not possible until it's made possible.

So and the differences if you involve

big diaspora, big community can be very

interesting outcomes.

>> You know we had uh Austin on deaf

politan life and he had talked about you

know he spent about 20 plus years in

like between NMPC and another private

sector company before he embarked on his

entrepreneurial journey and it's almost

similar to you. You spent like almost 26

plus years at institutions.

I want to focus primarily on Africa exam

because I do think we had Andre Elli who

was former C of AFC

>> actually he was my boss at AFC.

>> Really? Wow. And so um he demystified

what AFC does. Right. I would love your

help demystifying what AF exam does

especially for people who are always

hearing about AFEX Exem Bank. I think

they just provided loans to a couple.

>> Yeah. The last three deals you've heard

on the news are all afraid

>> dangote. So what does Africam do? What

was your role like over there and how

did that role help shape your transition

to silverback holdings as well?

>> So so Andrew and I go back first like 30

years. So when we were in our early 20s

when he was at IFC,

>> I was managing a IFC fund called East EM

EMP. I was both young in our careers and

obviously my wife being Niger and

wanting to go back to Nigeria, AFC being

here, you can see the confluence of

events to to to lead us to to AFC, but

fundamentally

uh whether it's AFC that probably is uh

probably around 15 billion AOM or below

and AFXim that now is probably under 45

around that number. The two of them are

70 billion under under management. They

both fall into a family called

development finance institutions.

>> DFI

>> DFIs. So the DFIs are basically when

many governments

>> get together and combine their pools and

say we're going to do something that

will help all of us. So Africa being

heavily fragmented

and I would argue maybe not accidentally

>> because when you think about

colonization as a technology it had five

people so when they left there should

have been five countries

>> but end up being 54 while there was not

54 empires before they came. So

>> that's a whole another thing. So

>> so some some serious fragmentation

happened. So now when we want to do big

infrastructure project those vehicles

end up being uh ideal vehicles to

basically do large project. So

the two entities are different in terms

of their goal. Um so I will first

address

AFC that's where I went first. So and I

was familiar with DFIs because I had

started my career after Maryland at the

IMF. So uh working in multilateral

organization is a mix of understanding

business being a technocrat but also

politics because it's your shareholders

and your stakeholders are usually

countries whether on the dispersement

side or on the contribution side. So

it's like what the founder does but

actually instead of getting money from

people or company you're getting it from

government and you have to put the money

back in government. So with AFC AFC was

a reaction

to

the ADB which was probably still the

largest development bank on the

continent on the Panaffrican basis.

uh was to get a

was the largest shareholder was Nigeria

and then Niger was expecting to get the

role

they didn't get it. So the country

probably one of the most amazing capital

raise of my time the government say

forget this guys we're going to do our

own

>> is Nigeria

>> in Nigeria we're going to do AFC and AFC

was put together by the central bank the

government

forcing all the banks to put $1 billion

of cash in a bank account

>> collectively or collectively

>> collectively

>> and this is Nigerian banks

>> Nigerian bank only Nigerian this is this

is a fully started Nigerian

>> wow

>> effort. So imagine at that time to go to

different banks and say oh yeah all the

dollars

>> and there was no staff. So imagine a

bank all the entrepreneurs trying to

raise money if the money was raised and

the staff came after.

So that's Nigerian reaction. Don't upset

a Nigerian.

So that organization did phenomenal well

because over time now the from that

initial situation the guy that was there

before Andrew the one thing that was you

know there was a lot of

big goals before because you're trying

to be another AFDB

is a big mission but I think the good

thing uh the team overtime did uh was

the contribution of Andrew and now Sama

is to concentrate that mission around

infrastructure only

>> and uh you know the in the beginning it

had a very multiplicity of objective but

I think with the restriction of the goal

around infrastructure

>> focus

>> it allow precision

uh and also it allows any employee any

executive to not try to be tequila it's

very difficult to make everybody happy

but if you decide that I'm going to be a

Jew juice not alcoholic or I'm going to

do alcohol. I want to be strong. You

tend to concentrate your effort. So I

think AFC very fast became a dominant

force in terms of getting money from

either banks or countries because

obviously Nigeria the banks kind of

provided the bulk of the check under the

instruction of CBN but then in different

countries you go find a different entity

to provide that money and then companies

in that countries can become

shareholders. But the goal of AFC was

always provide capital to infrastructure

project first in Nigeria then across the

continent. That mission has done well.

Afric is a company a firm a DFI that was

created around

trade finance.

>> Okay.

>> It was also a reaction. Afric was

created by a seneagalles gentleman that

used to be the president of of AFDB at

the time. So AFDB was uh is same concept

different African country control it but

there's aspect of the AFDB

that gives a big voice to non-African

entities.

So when uh

it was created

the key rule was to create take critical

vertical of a of Africa development bank

and create a subsidiary around it. So

Afric was really a subsidiary for trade

finance

>> specifically

>> specifically and there's many companies

like African

people don't realize there's a company

called shelter Afric

>> shelter

>> shelter

>> Africa and it's created for real estate.

>> Yeah.

>> There's a company you've heard about

called Africa 50

>> for infrastructure.

>> There is um let me try to think of a

couple of more.

>> These are subsidiarities of So all these

are ADB

>> ADB subjury created but some of them now

are becoming half the size. I would

argue that Afraim as a child has become

a

>> uncle.

>> Is there any I'm curious is there any

for

um like that for media and creativity?

>> No, not yet. But I I would argue that

you know that's what the ADB has been

doing. The key the key the the the the

key point around this giving birth is

that the guy that uh put it together was

concerned that control

>> was not in African hands.

So what's very important in each of them

by in their constitution you take

Afric's embedded rule that African

countries must be the dominant voting

force like it's embedded in the charter.

You can take money from anywhere, but

there's not going to be a time where a

foreignbased entity can influence the

end decision because at top core

>> it's not always the case. So all these

by design are supposed to be a better

African DFI. Not to say that the parent

is bad but these were architected for

solution. So Africans answer your

question was really around trade

finance. So we started around providing

trade line and then progressively

started doing infrastructure because you

know as you do trade you kind of reverse

into the supply chain that's how Dangote

started it was just doing trade but

today has refinery

is uh when whether you think about sugar

whether you think about cement the

factory itself because if you don't

reverse integrate and that's our biggest

problem is that we don't refine

The lack of refining has been

permanently the biggest

>> issue

>> issue across the continent because every

whether it's chocolate,

whether it's a sports person, a singer,

you can have all the talent in the raw

form, but the distribution and the

refining machine is where the value

sits. That's why, you know, there'll be

some

some music where people just see who had

more talent between

Biggie and Puff Daddy. Who's more famous

and who's making more money?

>> Well, the problem is Biggie had more

talent, but Puff Daddy

>> at the distribution machine. No, but the

distribution he had. He was he was the

label.

>> He was the distribution. The point there

is it's the the real value always sit at

the distribution point and I think as

where it's all concentrate

>> well you know what okay I'm glad you

went here

>> I'm always saying to her distribution

distribution

>> distribution

>> I'm glad you went here so I and I have

two ways to go about this I want to talk

about it from like a practical trade

perspective

>> u but I do want to talk about media too

um so interestingly last night I was

having a dinner with my girls and you

know I'm kind of at the age where I'm

like look we talk about money like let's

let's start talking about how we making

money. Let's start talking about these

things. And so one of my friends um also

has been in finance and she was talking

about this same issue. So she was saying

specifically there's these like sesame

seeds and she's like you know I'm from

Tabra and it's everywhere. She's like

you just go around and you just see them

in the wind you know. and she was saying

she knows of a company that is um Asian

that has that's in Nigeria and they all

they do is they like heat the sesame

seeds in these tumblers and they export

it to different countries around the

world and they're making millions and so

she was just urging us to look at you

know if we're looking at agriculture

other things to refine it and so I'm

trying to understand why is it why are

we not in that game like why is it that

an Asian company could come to a state

in Nigeria and see the opportunity and

focus on that and we for some reason are

not focused on that.

>> Well, I think you know the the toughest

thing in life is figure out what's the

noise and what's real. Mhm.

>> So today you have a gentleman called

Aliko Dangote that's simply trying to

put the refinery and ship that oil to

Yankee or Europe.

You guys are in the country reading all

the the stories around it

>> and the stories are not the Yankees or

the at least on in the visible is

actually

>> us

>> his sibling

>> saying ah he wants to control more he

wants to have more.

>> The fact is you're going to stop your

cousin

>> for doing that plant

>> so that you take it from someone you

don't know.

>> So that's where we've been. That's been

the movie of our life. Every time that

someone tries to solve that problem,

instead of letting that problem be

solved, most of us do what's happening

in this movie that we're all watching.

He's saying it's fine. I'm going to make

money. But this is a problem to us all.

But we can't even agree at that level.

You see the amount of gymnastic that has

been I mean for 30 years I've only seen

those those situation. Every time that

reflex comes, it's just bizarrely

and a lot of times it's not even a

natural African problem. A lot of time

it's engineered, right? Cuz you can

imagine the amount of money that all the

IOC's

from the west are making

>> imagine if Alico is saying I'm going to

take all that revenue and the heads are

falling in London in America. They're

like, "What do you mean? This is like

20% of my money. Why you want to take

it? Who are you? This is what my

ancestors have been doing." So, there's

a lot of that have to happen at multiple

industries,

>> sectors,

>> multiple sectors because a lot of times

if you don't control if you don't

control

the distribution, you you lose the

story.

>> Mhm. Think about how many people should

be going to

I mean to go visit the places where the

Christ was born. They go to Italy, a

country he never went to.

>> Well,

no.

>> That's distribution.

>> Yeah.

>> And talent

>> and storytelling. And storytelling.

>> So, it's the same archetype. You need to

control the distribution else

>> things will happen that look normal

>> but I'm very strange. It it reminds me

of like obviously you and I are huge

fans of the philosophy of Naval and I

was just thinking as you explained it to

Chica,

>> we've not really done a good job of

explaining to maybe Africans in general

why capitalism, socialism, communism,

because I believe in ethical wealth

creation, which is possible through

capitalism while still holding

capitalists accountable to the things

that they do. And I remember the

singular line I read in the NA book was

society will reward you for giving it

what it wants but does not yet know how

to get

>> so how is that broken down simply hey

here's a painoint I will take radical

responsibility in fixing it if I fix it

you guys will give me money for it and I

won't get all the money but I'll get

like maybe 5% 10% is that okay yes

everybody yes good

>> and I think once I understood it from

that simplistic perspective you're like

why are more people going into it. But

then to your point, I don't know if it's

a cultural thing, if it's been

engineered. I think there's this

>> perception like, well, why you

>> between ourselves and then when an Asian

or or whoever else comes in, we're like,

oh, that's fine because we don't

associate or we don't tie that. It's the

same capitalist bend, you know. So,

thank you for giving giving us that

breakdown. humans still one of my I

would say you know Naval is we've

discussed in zillion times favorite

favorite book favorite thinker at this

stage because I think there's few people

that do a phenomenal job prior to LLM

and Google

>> breaking down

>> breaking down all the knowledge in the

past like I think Naval is one of them

Harry is one of them uh Robert guy that

wrote uh 48 laws of

green artist. They just go and just

>> you could call it stealing, borrowing,

but they just go into the past,

>> find the best gems

>> and bring it to those are heroes. And

>> once you have that gem,

>> you inherit like 5,000 years of

knowledge. And um for him the one of the

thing I would say to to Naval the

biggest quote that infected my life was

um one he borrowed from Buddha

which is every human

has only two lives

and the second one starts when you

realize that you only have one

>> and that's from Buddha. So he's really

brought it back up in our era and that

that sentence was just resounding in me.

I mean when really the decision of

creating silverback came through because

I was in uh uh in Dubai. So I almost

died of CO.

>> Oh wow.

>> So this was uh 2020

airport had opened in uh Cairo. I was uh

my family was here in Niger. We had not

seen each other for 8 months. Uh then we

went to the US went to Sagal

uh to see the our parent a parent I had

not seen for almost 10 months and then

got tested negative for uh COVID as you

leave. And Dubai back then was open but

they like I don't care where you got

your test. As you land I'm testing you.

So as I went my family was going back to

Cairo. I was going to Dubai because

that's where I do my annual medical

check. So, I'm going to do a one day

stop over to go see my doctor and fly

back. I get out the plane, go do my

medical checkup, get the SMS.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> You're not leaving.

>> Go to that hotel, sit there.

>> So, you know, I was reading all these

things about COVID blah blah blah.

People think so, you know, mentally you

but you don't feel it, but um you get

tired. I was taking all the medication.

I have a lot of friends. I'm a Dubai

resident. So, a lot of friends who were

bringing me uh medication to my hotel. I

was following them. But on the fifth

day, I was So, basically, my big uh

criteria is when I have COVID, I sleep

20 out of the 24 hours of the day. So,

you take medical help medicine is only

few hours. The most of the time you're

not curing yourself. So by the fifth

day, I could not lift my leave my bed to

go to the bathroom in the hotel room.

>> Like it took me like an hour and a half.

I was planning to go.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> So then I look at the time, but the

planning to go is literally like your

life in slow motion

>> cuz you're looking at the door, you're

having like strategy meetings. Which leg

do you move first? What would be the

cost effective way to go there? And then

next thing you look at your watch,

>> it's been it's been 90 minutes.

>> You're like,

>> "It is bizarre. I cannot find energy to

lift. I'm still thinking." So then I

call my friend. He's like, "Listen, I

think you're not realizing, but you're

probably running out of breath." And you

need to go see this doctor cuz he saved

my life. So I went to the doctor and uh

when I went to the doctor, uh I mean it

was emergency. Um

uh the guy told me, "Listen, um you're

going to give you some medication." But

when you take it, don't run after. So

anyways, I I couldn't understand the

point. He even made said something I'm

not going to say on TV, but he basically

injected me with lot of strong drugs

and I fell asleep. The next day when I

woke up then I realized I was just

tracking the clock cuz every night I was

doing 20 hours

and uh it had been 11 hours since I

since I like in 14 hours since I entered

the hospital. So I figured that it had

to be a short sleep. So for me I was

just celebrant

to actually have slept less than 20

hours. That was like a big milestone in

my head. And the guy comes and then he's

like, "Listen, look at these pictures."

Those was my lungs. So, one of my long

one of the space was gone. The other one

like twoth was gone. And it was like

going towards three.

>> This is co

>> COVID. So, he was telling me that if you

had stayed an extra day,

you wouldn't have not made it to ER. So,

I've given you something that's going to

reverse the trend and going to

reconstitute this, but it's going to

give you a lot of energy.

>> You need to promise me to not go run

marathon or do funny business.

And literally that was very

uh appreciient because when I went back

to my hotel like every morning I'll wake

up and I'll do like 100 push-ups because

I have just this

>> energy

>> energy and I would have to stop. But all

about me would be to to do more because

I just have this but I just stayed for a

week. And it's during that time when I

realize that, you know, I almost died.

>> And when that hits you, you kind of have

like a replay of your life. Yeah.

>> Of what you've done, even if it's great,

and how

it's insufficient

>> for what you could do. Like regrets

become very tangible. And uh and also

you know you kind of see some um some

inflection point in your past where

there's things you could have done

differently and you're like you know

what there's no reason why I'm not doing

it.

>> Interesting.

>> There's no reason why I'm restricting

restricting. I think every humans we we

are bound to restrict oursel.

>> Yeah. and um and we are bound to

interrupt ourselves. So actually the

piece I shared with you this week our

chairman's not this year we called it

stay uninterrupted because you know a

lot of things two things we tend to see

to the founders we work closely with is

what is the version of you uninterrupted

one first question we always should ask

ourselves because a lot of time we get

distracted by the noise

>> so dango is not finishing his refinery

is distraction.

Maybe it's bad that it's not you, but

let's have one. But interruption is the

biggest killer that stops things. And

the second one is you just need to stay

alive long enough to be lucky. So,

anything you really

think is achievable and will

make someone else happy by your doing.

If you think it's worth your energy and

your passion, you can do it. And but

there's going to be voices,

there's going to be interruption. But

the reality is humans, we are designed.

If you think about all the prophets

we've known, they've all done miracles.

Miracles like you've read the Bible,

we've read the Quran, miracle galore.

They didn't come with like a drone to do

it. It's the human that did. So the

capacity of a human to do incredible

thing is documented

in our in in your lifetime. You will see

it. We spend our time reading about all

these human doing phenomenal things.

Unfortunately, it's heavily skewed

towards money.

So if you think about we've just really

gone from a specy that used to value

people that did things beneficial for

other humans to now the 100 richest guy.

>> Yeah.

>> So that's the proxy now where you know

wealth now becomes an excuse to do the

most immoral thing. Yeah. where people

having debate about things that are

obvious

because the metric has changed but

fundamentally the capacity of humans for

what they're doing in terms of wealth

creation you're about to get the first

trillionaire so I think all of us can do

there's no limit to what we can do it's

always

your neighbor your family your friend

that will plant doubt

So if there's something you want to do,

>> this is not what I tell my kids or

people under 20,

>> but I think in the past in your 20s,

find a superpower,

find something you are good at and find

something where you don't see the time

go.

>> The biggest secret is that

>> to not see the time go. Some people call

it passion, some people call it, but

that is the metric. is because of X or Y

reason. Time is not accounted. Cost is

not accounted. You are a superhuman.

Everybody else is seeing that as time.

Everybody is seeing it at cost.

Everybody's seeing at effort for you.

Your system is not recording it as a

cost.

>> It's just do you doing what you really

love. So when when you're at that trail,

the chances of you doing a massive

failure

exist, but it's quite limited because

you are probably the one individual

that's willing to make as many hours in

that journey. Nobody else is interested.

>> And when you listen some of these

>> tech billionaires, you can see the

common tissue being find a secret nobody

knows, a tunnel nobody goes to. you have

a monopoly, you're competing only with

yourself because the toughest thing is

having competitors. When we're like 10

copycats doing the same, it's tough

because maybe the cheese is small and

then we arrive at the end of the

journey. You're looking at yourself, you

all kill yourself, the cheese is

standing.

>> Yeah.

>> No, you know, I identify with this and I

told you I had CO too in Rwanda and I

had my come to Jesus moment there.

>> True. Disgusting.

>> There were nothing like those

hallucinations. I remember spending

hours in bed and the same thought

process. You'd just see time go by and I

remember just saying to God, if you get

me out of here, if you get me out of

this position, I'm not going to be the

same person anymore, you know? So, I

could definitely relate. I wanted us to,

as we round up,

>> Mono, the Mono deal just got announced.

Um, they got acquired by Flutterwave. I

believe it was an all stock deal for

about what was announced publicly was

about $30 million. Right now for our

audience who's again trying to make

sense of these acquisitions, right?

Again, some acquisitions get done with

cash, some get done with stocks, some

get done with a combination of both,

right? I think Mono was a YC company,

Flutterwave is a YC company. This is one

of the first exits where another YC

company in Africa, I believe, is buying

another YC company. Can you demystify

this whole all stock deal um acquisition

especially for our viewers who might not

be familiar with what that looks like?

So Flutterwave acquires Mono but it's an

all stock deal where I believe the Mono

investors get stock in Flutterwave. So

demystify that for our viewers.

>> Yes, sure. So that's that's that type of

transaction is happens a lot. I think uh

the largest uh M&A of last year's was

Maxab

uh and uh the company in Kenya. So the

two of them

>> Wasoko

>> Wasoko merge and that was also around

lot of share swap and this one is the

same for us. It's lucky because both

companies are direct exposures we're in.

So it's fundamentally

us. We used to have shares in two

companies. Now the shares of this

company give us more shares

in the other company. The team of Mono

gets integrated under Flutterwave. They

will keep the brand but they will use

their secret sauce that they will

disseminate

across flutaway which is a platform that

is in many more countries with

regulatory license. Mono was only

operating in three countries and would

have had to do the journey of getting

>> license all the wajala all the drama and

then maybe you don't work now suddenly

you're part of this big machine

and boom you suddenly your revenue

expansion

your only job is to use all this license

and paste that solution in different

places and the the industry they operate

in and there was only two to three

players is one was linked to switch the

other one shut down. So they

fundamentally in this area one of the

only players. So that would

significantly enhance some of the

subsequent value that materialize in

flat wave. So fundamentally most of the

investors become investors in flat wave.

So all the that's really the the the big

gain uh in that story and I I would

argue this going to happen a lot more. M

>> it needs to happen a lot more because

when you think about the ramification of

mergers we all have witnessed in our

lifetime many so just imagine that

where

both you and our platform reside which

is YouTube that's what it was right it

was a company created by a bunch of guys

and today is part of the top three

biggest company in in the world. And the

revenue it makes

monthly,

>> it's crazy,

>> is bigger, is a multiple of what Google

paid to buy that company to the point

that if you took YouTube out, it could

be one of the hund

most valuable companies in the world.

>> It's crazy.

>> So, you can be sure that this is this

type of transaction that we've few more

we know is Facebook,

>> Instagram. I never go to Facebook

anymore. I started my journey social

media and Facebook yet. I'm still on

Facebook cuz we don't escape WhatsApp

>> or Instagram

>> or Instagram. I don't know if there's

now they've created this

>> threads.

>> Threads. Yeah.

>> So they're like my friend you are not

escaping me. I don't know which style

you like. If you want a bad I have it.

If you like shorts, I have it. If you

have heart, I have it. You're staying

with me.

>> Yeah. So that's fundamentally what

platform. So for us it's it's a good

news that's like a biggest

second big news of of of uh of this

beginning of the year and we couldn't be

happier because it stays within the

portfolio. A lot of time we try to

architect that ourselves. So this one

we're not taking any credit. We've seen

that before. We've done that in the past

and we expect that as things change we

all win win win together.

>> We created the Afropolitan Podcast

because we wanted to make sure we tell

the stories of those who came before us

and those who are coming in front of us.

>> Our stories deserve to be documented and

remembered.

>> And over here at Afropolitan, our drink

of choice is Ino, which is a gin from

South Africa because we believe African

brands are global. So Etche, what are

you toasting to? to our builders, our

innovators to show that black brilliance

exists worldwide.

>> I am toasting too to African creativity.

I feel like the world is just blossoming

with beautiful African storytellers.

>> Here's to legacy

>> and stories worth sharing.

>> So babes, I'm always talking to you

about investing. How's your journey

going so far?

>> It started because you've been on my

head for the past 6 months about

investing and you'll be proud of me

because I actually found an app I love.

It's called Rise Vest. And actually,

what I love about it is that you can

start with $10 and it automates

everything for you. So, literally, I

just go into the app and literally it's

investing for me every single day.

>> Yeah. Because we know you're not going

to be a trader anytime soon. But with

Rise Vest, you're going to be able to

invest in US stocks, right? Fixed

income, real estate, etc. Right? And so,

I'm happy you're finally on board.

>> And you know, the funny thing, too, is I

always tell my girls that as women,

we're not investing enough. We're not

talking about it. and we're not having

these conversations. So, I shared it in

all my group chats. So, you can find

RiseBest on the Apple and Google Play

Store.

>> Okay? Make sure to use code afropolitan

so that they know that we sent you. You

know how every week we sit down with

people who've done it, people who've

built, people who've led movements,

people who've created culture. What if

you could do more than just listen to

them? That is why we built Convoy by

Afropolitan. On Convo, you're able to

book one-on-one video calls with in-

demand experts from Africa and the

diaspora. Go to convo.vip

to get access to your next mentor

because sometimes one convo can change

your entire path.

>> So the I want to now switch to our

rapidfire questions. Right. So the first

thing that comes to mind I want you to

share. Right. So first thing I want you

to share is your favorite African food.

my favorite African food. So, as a

Seneagalles, yes, that's come from the

land of Jolof, I'm not going to make

some choices that creates

>> wala.

But genuinely, my favorite African food

is a meal called yasa. It's why

chicken with the onions.

>> For me, you know, people fight over the

yasa has always been my

>> Have you had a yasa? All knock byara.

>> Is there is Oh, yeah, there is yasa

there.

>> Yes, there's a yasa there.

>> Is there sineagalles food here? Like I

really

>> Yes. Yes. So, so that's a good place to

find Seneagalles food because Tundai and

his wife when they set it up, they took

a Seneagalles friend of mine who's one

of the biggest chef in New York. He's

the one that actually

>> set it up.

>> Set it up. So, so he's inside the menu.

There's a plurality of countries,

Malian, Nigerian,

>> but there's definitely a significant

synagogues emphasis. So,

>> the cook at present may not do it pronto

pronto exactomentoto

like it has to be. But

>> I always get a yasa when I go there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The the yasa is good there.

>> Okay.

>> But to get the best, you need to come

and splend the money

>> in the car.

>> In the car.

>> I know. We need to go back. Actually,

it's a it's a country I really enjoy.

It's so beautiful. Um, what's your

favorite country to visit actually

>> outside of your own?

>> So, yes.

So, I've been uh in 40

plus African cities, but um so I'll pick

one for Africa because I'm always try to

>> to fight for Africa. So outside of Dhaka

and Lagos where from belonging and roots

I have to put a flag.

Uh

I think one

underestimated city and incredible city

is Kegali.

>> Yeah.

>> And then one I think that will win

constantly on the global stage even

outside of Africa ranking will be Cape

Town.

>> Yeah. Cape Town will just continue to be

uh a phenomenal city for wherever you

come from. I don't so from a personal

standpoint but I think it's one of those

cities where if you're taking someone

somewhere

the amount of anticipation of drama of

worry you have

>> disappears and that's a a metric or a

signal of value because you know I'll

take people home I'll take them Lego

they go any place I'll be I'll always

feel like

>> there's some anxious that there's some

liability that

happen pop up.

>> I mean, we did see

>> the biggest

>> champion of boxing show up for vacation

>> and an unfortunate thing come. So that's

like for me those are the worst cuz if

your commitment

>> like you guys we we have a media

platform and Africa

>> narrative is important.

>> Exactly.

>> Correcting the misperception is

important. So for me, every time I I'm I

have a someone not from the continent, I

want perfection to happen cuz you know,

so I would say Cape Town wins it because

it's one of the places where literally

you could take someone and disappear

and the person will still be super

happy.

>> So I think there's many reason to that

and hopefully we can go get more more

cities. Kegali is doing a very good job

at that level and um I think slowly

slowly more of our cities will will do

the same. But you guys been to Cairo, so

I have to

>> spend some time.

>> And you guys visited. So I think Egypt

is another place I love.

>> I think uh

>> I love that

>> it definitely needs because of the

historical you guys saw the history the

so and also I'm a big fan of religion.

So the amount the abundance of profit

linked to that geography and I think

Africa as a whole

>> there's just a lot that has happened

there that I think there's been some

media effort on editing

>> since we are all in the editing business

and time I think the editing post edit

has been massive

>> in a lot of places

>> I mean think about the fact that the guy

that created Judaism came from Egypt

Yeah.

>> Was called Moses.

>> Yes.

>> So there should be a role.

The person that uh build the Cabba in

Mecca. It's actually Ibraham,

>> my namesake, and his son Ishmael. So

just think about how bizarre the world

is.

>> It's connected. how it's connected to

that random place that has pyramid that

has former slaves that is linked to a

nextdoor country called Sudan that has

more pyramid. There's

>> there's an army of things that will

never know.

>> I think the simplest thing I tell people

that the simplest thing vision of

paradise I have is that

>> you die if you are if you elected to go

to hell is not necessarily fire. It's

just like a black screen.

>> Paradise is just God or the universe

giving you a download of every questions

you've ever had in one split.

>> There's nothing that can be better than

that. All these places where you have

doubt or questions. Imagine if there's

an app that gives you the entire story

of humanity pre- Big Bang. Cuz Big Bang

is the laziest scientific

>> explanation

>> explanation of things. It's like, oh

yeah, I've tried, man. I've given you

5,000 years of explanation. This one,

that's where it starts. So imagine

getting in one go. You don't need

anything. You will not need money. You

will not need anything. That's all as

human. That's the most divine

>> posture you can have. There's nothing

that puzzles you.

>> I do have one rapid fire question.

Middle Eastern LPS versus Western LPS.

Obviously, you don't have to go into

specifics, but what do you appreciate

about the differences between both?

>> I think uh the the Middle Eastern LPS

are

a bit similar to us.

uh it takes a bit more time but they

cultivate relationship. You will drink a

lot of tea, coffee, shisha

before you land but once you land

>> yeah is solid.

>> It's solid but it takes some time.

>> The western so I would say the western I

would put them in two buckets. There's a

bucket of the purely commercial

pure capitalist. I want to make money

money. He's very clear.

>> If he doesn't want to do business with

you, he'll tell you no. If he doesn't

want to talk to you, he'll ghost you.

>> But then I think that the challenge

African PE and VC haven't been in the

game as a hedge fund person, PE person,

and now a VC person. The the tough part

that exists on the continent is the

biggest provider of capital are DFIs.

uh and uh all DFIs, you know, take their

time. So if you're in a fast game, if

your main solution being DFI is, you

know, you kind of have to be very

patient because most of these people

raise funds over four years to, you

know, people tend to only see the end of

it, the announcement of the exit, the

announcement of this.

>> Yeah. it. And to be honest, it's also

why I have a bias against not to say I

don't support DFIs, but anytime somebody

comes to talk to me about, oh, let's go

talk to this DFI or this, I'm like,

listen, man, I don't have one year to

wait. So,

>> they have money to grant you.

>> Yeah, sure.

>> Take it. I mean, we're in the same

journey at that space. For us, we want

to collaborate more with you guys.

Really want to as we develop our tech

>> and pass a certain stage, partner with

more media.

>> Yeah. platform like you guys because

fundamentally we think that the big part

of the journey is having more

vehicles like that

handling the editing

>> cuz it's not

it's actually counterediting we're doing

cuz basically there's a there's thousand

of years

>> narative

>> of flawed narrative that's engineer you

can be sure that it's not accidental

>> that Tarzan hands in Africa and teach

the animal picked Tarzan to teach their

language and skip every African across

the village

like that is one of the biggest there's

so many of those and that is as a baby

so imagine all babies even us we've seen

it but it doesn't hit your head

>> but you have accepted that

>> wow man even the monkeys don't want to

teach us their language

>> when the white man shows up they adopt

him.

>> Yeah.

>> So imagine there was plenty of you know

how many African boys were hanging out

in that village.

>> They did not adopt one

>> until thousand landed.

Mogi same thing.

>> So the amount of editing that has been

done editing.

>> So we have our duty collectively is post

editing. So I would argue the work you

guys are doing, the work we're doing,

ours is more restricted because we we

are biased towards our portfolio. you

guys are going wide and and large

>> and uh as the viewership the the lawyer

the loyalty is built around what I've

discussed here is really trying to route

truths

to our people but truth outside the

market because fundamentally the if we

don't do it nobody else is going to do

it

>> but you can suspect that if others are

spending time to distort reality

Maybe there's a truth

>> that a lot of people need to hear.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think you know the biggest mission

we need to impose on ourselves. Stop

talking about Africa potential. There's

no such thing. Africa has been actual

forever. People have landed collected

tried to impose thing on us keep

collecting.

>> So if he was potential you

>> what are you doing here?

>> What are you doing here?

What are you doing here?

>> I love this. I love this

>> thing. So, we need to force oursel kill

that story.

>> Yes. I love it. So, the last question we

ask every single guest on the

Afropolitan podcast is who do you want

to see in that chair and whose story

needs to be told?

>> I think the one I would suggest you have

on the chair is definitely uh the

founders of Move. Uh obviously the the

level of our adoration is unlimited with

them.

So I think uh the two of them you get

will be great. Vladi uh we just had him

at FI and we recorded the podcast there.

I think that was the first time he was

telling his story and it was the largest

event ever uh on the globe today and he

gave the full story and people really um

espouse it. I think it's important to

have him here because from a son of the

soil to see what they have achieved, the

great things they're doing that I can't

disclose what you're going to hear on

the news. I would argue it's going to be

the biggest story of 2026 by far. By

far. And uh and they're very humble guys

that

really are I think what we need to see

over the next 10 to 20 years. Another

one I would recommend is LFI. Okay.

>> Very similar story cuz they're really

going buying.

>> I mean, the core of that story is

>> all of us. I mean, I'm I'm older than

you guys, but I can see clearly in my

head the amount of money I've dashed to

money and Western Union in my 30 years

life of career, sending money to my

parents, my siblings. I mean, so now

obviously there's Ventmo in any other

ways, but I remember when early in my

career when I was sending like $2,000 to

my family, not that my family need, but

we, you know, tradition of sending money

>> at home,

you know, you'll have like fundamentally

almost 20% of that amount

>> they would.

>> So imagine monthly

>> when you addition you do the addition of

that is crazy. So what you have today

with companies like LFI is actually

someone from our stores from our soils

second act again because you know those

guys were here in OPEC. If you look at

all the best performing in our in our

top 15 companies where we directly

like not one of them

>> is a first act

>> is a first act

>> like you guys are not a first act as you

know definitely not this is superpower

in second act and ourself as a firm

>> we are a second act cuz the entire

management team we've worked together

>> before in a different setting it is all

of us we're like you know what this time

>> this second act it's more

>> so literally The people that have that

in them are different people.

>> They do something differently. And I

think whether you get Laddy or you get

the LFI guys.

>> The story that needs to be told more is

that we don't need to restrain ourselves

to our market.

>> We we should be unapologetic,

>> uninterrupted,

>> uninterrupted.

there's no reason why a company comes

from another geography lens and that

gymnastic is something you prevent

yourself for. So I think the more of

that happening those those stories

>> will change

>> a large segment of the future kids

because the benefit of the future kid is

my own daughter that's 19 now

>> came to catch us in our living room when

we're watching

>> when Trump became president the first

time

>> and her what was puzzled in her young

mind was why we watching all these

blonde guys

trying to take Obama job like they're

the one that's going to replace him. And

because she was under eight,

she was like, "But they can't get his

job. He's they're not brown."

>> So in her head,

>> the president of the US

>> has to be a black person.

>> So there's a lot of mental restriction

we grew up with that this generation

doesn't have. kids younger than her were

born when there was an Indian guy.

>> Yeah.

>> Running the UK.

>> Yeah.

>> So, you can see that some of these

episode the more you see it,

>> it's a healthy

healthy start.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz the mental slavery a lot of previous

generations suffer from

>> from the edit that we need to post edit

>> is massive. Yeah. So we have a big I

think we have a big duty on the media

side to just make people see

>> more I mean Niger has a lot more than

>> than Fei Alico

>> there's like there's so many of those

stories and we need to get our youth to

see it and there is

>> there's unlimited potential in all of us

unlimited power so

>> definitely suggest those two

>> okay thank Thank you so much again.

>> Thanks for the gift to your time, guys.

>> Thank you.