CEO of Compare The Market: How Meerkats Saved Our Business

and I was sitting in this big meeting

and there was a real problem with the

deal and I just went I think you got the

Clause the wrong way around and you just

want to put KN there the partner from

freshfields turn around and went that is

exactly the right answer when you work

out they're making it up everyone else

is making it up stop pretending to go to

your point which is ask the question

that confidence is where you've got to

start courage comes before

confidence hi I'm Mark Bailey I'm the

chief executive of compar to Market and

this is my D flip do you think it's the

Mir cats that actually just

made the brand go from when the Mir cats

were discovered right we tried

everything else I think it's a stupid

idea but it's this or shut it down and

the answer was it's this British culture

says money is a dirty word so is there

also an education that we need to do

around money shouldn't be a dirty word

in certain situations this is I think

your touching on one of the hardest

things for us to deal with as a society

how's this something to admit of all the

people all the people I might actually

just ring up B NSE and get him to

explain it to me what she do they flip

what gets you out of bed in the morning

to flip the do um

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you it is isn't it I don't know what it

is every time they're like can we add a

new thing that okay but it's been set up

in a way where we the British cycl team

the 1% so everything you we've got here

is all 1% added each time so British

culture tells you don't uh British

culture when you go into someone's house

they say don't ask for a tea if it's in

the cupboard don't put someone out so

when we first started no one would have

a cup of tea wouldn't they no they

didn't want a cup of tea cuz it's all in

the cupboard so now we got the oh that's

why you got it out yeah okay and no one

rejects a capo I love the story

just by putting the caddy

out everyone has a cup of tea brilliant

it's cool isn't it so so Mark tell me a

little bit I've been so excited we've

been connected on LinkedIn for a bit

that's my kind of platform I know it's

your kind of platform as well tell me a

little bit about your like who is Mark

where did he start what was your first

job so my parents were okay well off I

went to State School in a little lived

in a little village in buckinghamshire

um never went to London so London was

this big scary place at the end of the

Railway my first job was in the local

green grosser prepping the cauliflowers

prepping the cabbages um which is

brutally cold in the run up to Christmas

um I then did everything from working

the local

pubs um night shift in the local garlic

bread factory that's a pretty brutal job

um and that was just to get through

University um

finish University and it's like I sort

of if you go back to the 1980s TV was

full of programs like La law and capital

city and I said London was like 50 mil

down the railway track and I sort of

always thought I wanted to go into

Finance didn't know what to do um asked

my dad and he had he had been he was on

the board of a small engineering company

and he said look it took me until I was

in my 50s until I understood the numbers

so go and become a CH accountant you'll

never regret it and it'll give you this

really good base training so I did that

for three years um I then did a couple

of years of corporate finance sort of

helping companies buy and sell each

other um 10 years of private Equity um

buying and selling companies investing

in companies and

then in 2010 I was asked to go back to

to hobby s to help the restructuring and

this was when it is cataclysmically bust

um

eventually with a really close friend of

mine guy called Chris Marx we ended up

running noncore um and

over six years we got rid of all of the

toxic

assets um shut down all of the

operations in North America got us out

of Asia restructured the Investment Bank

um I think sold about 400 billion pound

worth of assets over that time um was

then Chief Operating Officer of the bank

so running all of the data offshore

processing centers payment systems for

the bank um built a little Bank like

monzo on an app which is sort of an MBA

in technology so I'd always been sort of

came from the finance side and actually

having to run effectively a startup

technology

company um

there was n CEO succession um we agreed

that I would go and find do something

else and I was looking

for UK Financial Services

technology distribution not

manufacturing of like so people who

helped customers find products rather

than actually lent them money or did

their

insurance um and the thing I learned

from the little startup Bank

was you can you obsess about the

technology and then the day after you

launch you realize nobody knows who you

are and I desperately wanted a company

with the

brand um that's when I met Debbie huitt

who's the chair

um it's it's the hardest thing in the

world to pretend in a job interview that

you don't desperately want the job I

wanted the job from the moment I read

this spec um luckily Debbie and I see I

toi and we've had a brilliant four years

she's a brilliant

she is an amazing human um as a first

chair she's she's

amazing um and so for the last four

years I've run um compare the market um

we've really focused it down now onto

the comparison business um and we

serve 32 million of the 50 million

adults in the UK wow and was there this

grand plan cuz it seems like those steps

just all synced really nicely I know

that doesn't happen in careers and they

say oh never trust a a hockey business

plan um was there bumps in the road did

you know that you was going to

become one of the the COO of a massive

Bank did you when your dad said to you

go and figure out numbers or was you

just like you know what figure it out as

we as we go cuz you go online and some

places go okay hey here have a 5year

plan do this do that do you need all

that in your career um no so there's no

grand plan so so what you've just had is

what everyone gets to do is I got to

tell you the story in reverse from from

a really good end point um there

are what's the Dirty Little Secret I

think I've probably

had 100 150 job interviews in my life

I've passed one two

three

four

five and then two others which I turned

down so 150 attempts and seven

successful goes so I think and those

bumps in the road

um I made a terrible mistake in 2005

which was um the second job I took in

private Equity it's the only time I've

ever taken a job for the money so got

seduced um knew the people weren't very

nice

um pretty miserable 5 years and then the

financial crisis came that business

effectively got shut down my career

there was effectively done and it was a

pretty dark day I was s sitting there

thinking this is all over so there were

lots of times when I've been being I

don't know actually know what I'm going

to do now I don't know where it

is and the secret to careers I always

think is people talk to about the career

ladder and actually what you're looking

at it's almost like a Snakes and Ladders

board and some of those ladders are

actually escalators it's about

recognizing those escalators when they

come number one number two if you go to

work one day if you want to go home at

5:00 every

night and you don't feel pretty

uncomfortable about where you are on the

learning curve why it's really Steep and

you're struggling to keep up you're not

going hard enough and actually if you

run your career in a different way which

is work really hard learn every day stay

on the really steep bit of the learning

curve so when you're good at something

do something else learn the next skill

um and keep keep your eyes open for the

escalators and the

snakes and then the plan will come I

grew up in Lagos in Nigeria um cuz my

dad was building Guinness Breweries in

the 1970s what happens when

you using the analogy you do end up

landing on a snake and going a few pegs

back and how does one and how do how did

you how do you currently build

resilience in a world of

hey and a world of chaos sometimes

always find those ma magic moments don't

you but what what do you do

so

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um my My go-to Places exercise so I find

um out for a four or five hour bike ride

in the Hills torturing yourself

physically your brain shuts down and

that gives you space and allows you to

sort of um work through what's really

gone on

um there's a realization that comes with

age which

is you can be great but the situation

can be bad and you can be and even if

the situation is good you can be just

not suited to it um so

failing isn't terminal and it's not a

reflection on you it's just one of those

things that happen so anyone who goes

all the way to the top and says no I

never failed along the way it's like I

think that's a lie absolutely and and

and sort of knowing that at the

beginning which is it's not all going to

be a bettered of roses it's hard work

luck take your knocks come back um and I

think that resilience you're asking

about comes with knowing it's not all

going to be perfect you're going to make

some bad calls

things aren't going to go your

way but if you always have that in mind

at the

beginning it's easier to take it when it

happens now that doesn't mean you accept

it at all it means you need to push on

and find the next thing but it stops

that self-doubt which is what really

kills you and you're you're still on the

uh snake and lad's Bard aren't you to to

carry on going to look at it that

way 150 interviews and only s that's

quite daunting right for those who are

starting their career to think I have to

go potentially to 150

interviews well yes because you had to

put the hard work in and not every

opportunity is going to be right you're

going to reject some they're going to

reject you yeah what do you think why do

you think you failed at those 143 why

did I

fail why didn't you get the job do you

think some of them

were um I was just immature I remember I

was at a sort of diio graduate intake

thing and someone asked me what

motivated me and I said uh the money and

I cuz at 21 I thought it was the money

now clearly there's there's a tick box

somewhere at the back of the form that

goes if anyone applies and says they're

only in it for the money like you put

across and you don't take them through

so clearly I just walk straight into

that trap um there

was um actually a b I've got a huge

amount of respect for now but I

interviewed with

them when I was 24 and the feedback from

the Head Hunter was we went to State

School you went to

Manchester just not push enough now some

of those jobs wouldn't have been right

for me and actually I'm sure at the time

the companies that didn't hire me

probably made the right choice so some

of it was just fed some of it was your

CV is not good enough which

it wasn't frankly I um think if you went

and ask my

mom she throws her hands up in horror

about the fact that I didn't work hard

enough in my a levels blew it off at to

Cambridge end up at a university i'

never been

to slightly coasted my way through so

and she said like so when you're looking

for a job you're now paying the price

for your laziness when you were 17

like yeah means I've got to work harder

now and I

think it's just reality you will get

rejected and part of it is understanding

that when you get rejected it's not

about you quite often it's quite often

about

them in that moment when you're told

that you're not Posh enough you went to

State School from

Manchester how do do you respond and not

react it's quite hard isn't it and I've

been told all my life cuz I came from a

council state and I'm from tics and I am

how I am they they oh what are you here

for and then when you actually say they

they change their kind of you're here to

see the CEO okay but what what how do

you manage that kind of stuff

um look it's one of those realities in

life which um some people feel that way

like I think they're mad and I think

the having a really deep sense of

personal selfworth so I'm good enough to

do this I'm going to make it happen and

then just accepting that sometimes not

everyone's going to see it so 150

interviews I just want to stay on this

part of bit mark because I know how

scary going for an interview can be for

all walks of life anxiety stress and all

sorts so you've done you've been

interviewed 150 times and I would say

and I don't want to put words in your

mouth but you must have at least been

interviewing at least 150 people to join

one of your organizations so you're kind

of like a an interview Pro which is good

because we need one of them okay so what

tell me some of the things what would be

your advice in terms of dos and don'ts

and and these are just recommendations

right we understand that different

companies want different ways of

interviewing but what from your

experience and your opinion what what

are three things that you say you in an

interview if you don't do these three

things there's probably a good chance

that you won't get the job and what are

the three things that if you do these

three things there's definitely a chance

that you won't get the job so so three

things um you should

do do your research

so if you one one thing I find really

impressive is

um I was Hing ahe of data

governance incredible guy called Matthew

um he had actually been on the website

and looked at the journey and he had

worked out how the job he was applying

for he could see the problem in the

experience we had with our customers now

that's not that I want you to go and do

the work and tell me what the answer is

what I chose is you care enough to the

time looking at it number one number two

every job interview you go to will have

a job

spec companies obsess about those job

specs before they put them out so what

you want to do is take it and break it

down into all of the parts and actually

work

through what are they looking for and

what do I have and what that means is

cuz that job spec is a cheat sheet for

the questions you're going to get asked

now they may not ask the question in an

obvious way but they're what they're

looking for is like we want these 10

things sitting on a piece of paper here

is a list which is can they give me

evidence that they can satisfy those 10

things and so always read that and

always prover against it and then the

third thing is when you're in the

moment and the question

comes

pause because that little pause buys you

that split second to really think have I

heard the question right and if you

haven't heard the question right just

ask so those three things I think are

things to do

um three things that will stop you

getting the

job

um being someone you're not so I don't

think authenticity gets you the job but

people are being in authentic are

absolutely transparent you can see that

they're pretending number one number two

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um a

real sort of arrogance that comes across

which is usually defensive so there

aren't very many people going for a job

interview who actually are sitly going

I'm the these knees I can do it but

loads of people in that defensive moment

who would and they're they're trying to

project

confidence and we know that it's a

terrifying thing so you walk in there

and you're absolutely Shaw and and

I'm here to

go it's really easy to see um and then

people who talk too fast and too much

because again what it's covering up is

the fact they haven't done the work in

the back in the background interesting

facts about compare the markets the Mir

cats are now so popular Alex's

catchphrase simples is now in the Oxford

English Dictionary um his Memoir made it

to the number one Christmas book and sir

gets to do Duets on Tik Tok with the

rock I want to talk a little bit about

insurance Y and I know everyone's

probably thinking ah Insurance well I

didn't want to talk about that but

insurance is really important mhm life

insurance health insurance car insurance

and everything in between

mhm what is Insurance why does Insurance

give the individual money Powers I talk

about money powers in life you should

create your money power skills I grw up

three nights a week without dinner we

had no money yeah I've been able to

change my life around in the

organization I run there's no investors

no dad's money I've done it from the

ground up bootstrapped and money's given

me a power to do more like this show

this show has helped 7 million young

people find their do they flip and build

their careers from leaders like you but

what is insurance and why is it

important and why is it a money power if

you think about a

car so you've gone out you've put a like

300 quid deposit in you got your three

grand

car if

someone an uninsured driver hits that

car so you're left

exposed or you hit something in that car

and let's say you hit another car by

accident just like a shunt on the a12 at

7:00 in the

morning um you've got to pay for that

damage now on the basis you had to buy

the car on Finance in the first place

you didn't have the money to buy the car

you definitely don't have the money to

fix the car and that's what insurance

does what it does it takes everyone in

society and says what we'll all do is we

know 10% of cars will get damaged every

year what we'll do is we'll all

pay 500 quid and then collectively we're

covered in case randomly we happen to be

that 10% and what it the reason it's a

money power

is if you don't have it one you've got

to pay back the Finance on the car and

two you can't fix the car you've got

already so you're done at that point how

do I get to work how do I go and see my

parents the weekend um how do I go to

the gym all of that disappears from your

life and suddenly you've got a debt you

can't pay because you can't get to work

so you can't make for it so insurance is

basically all of us collectively

sharing the risk and that

is

um incredibly liberating and means you

can actually live your life so the same

true that's for your car for your home

um my daughter's flat um just like she

she bought a she was getting there

storms off February roof ripped off

right no survey was going to tell her

that the roof hadn't been put on

properly the she came home from work and

literally her roof was in the garden

across the road it's like that

was

22,000 to fix and if she hadn't had home

insurance which was I think her share of

it was 4500 quid she she would have had

to find

£22,000 to put the roof back on the

house so that's what it does that's what

it protects you from and the fact is I

know it's really hard to say well it's

quite expensive it might not be

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me but unless you've got the

£22,000 you definitely want to spend the

400 CU it means you're protected and

that's why insurance is so important now

the stuff you really got to protect in

life

um is it by law you've got to Ure your

car you can't drive without it um home

insurance if you've got a mortgage your

bank will make you have it um contents

not mandatory but you really should like

a leak and you lose your TV or your

carpets or your sofa and you most of us

can't afford to just go out and buy

another sofa or a new carpet um since

we've left the EU going on holiday

without travel insurance it's like what

happens when you walk into a Spanish

hospital and they ask you to pay it's

like how are you going to cover that

that's what it's there for it's there

the randomness of life and that

Randomness is going to come at some

point all and do you think there's

enough education no too many young

people come out into society and they've

never been taught about money they've

never been taught about um how Insurance

Works how an overdraft Works what the

charges are

um should you take a credit card or

shouldn't you um and all of those

without a bit of Education are just huge

traps and what they do is they mean

people can't save they can't build

deposits they can't find their way out

of life so I think um the fact that

Financial education isn't mandatory in

schools is a

disgrace in terms of compare the market

I want turn to the Mir

cats a little bit because I just think

that's bloody brilliant like do you

think it's the Mir cats that

actually just overnight just made the

brand go

buom because it's one of those

British trases Now isn't it it is and um

the brand is amazing like it's um it's

one of the reasons I joined the company

it's one of the reasons why half the UK

population use us and not anyone else

um the ability for us

to

um have there's there's something called

Mir chat that you can find on our

Instagram account which is Alexander and

Sergey with Shai Twain it's like okay

how many brands in the UK get to have

fun with the headliner at glenury and I

think that sums up the power of them

clearly when the Mir cats were

discovered and Peter who was the CEO at

the time the actual decision and we were

four of four the time

was right we tried everything else I

think it's a stupid

idea but it's this or shut it down and

the answer was it's this and it just

exploded that's not all the businesses

and behind that brand today is a a huge

Tech and data platform and what we're

trying to do is make it as easi as

possible for you to check now because of

the way Insurance works and this is one

of the secrets of which you would get

with proper financial

education your insurer changes their

appetite for

risk every day your bank changes their

appetite for risk every day and the

chance that your insurer or your bank

has the best price for you today is

almost zero so just over half

of um all people in the UK could save

between 4 and 500 quid on their car

insurance just by switching and that's

because behind the scenes the prices are

moving all the time and we sort of think

our job

is to make big companies fight for your

business and the fact is all we want

people to do is look

having a mascot like air cat just

lightens everything up because British

culture says money is a dirty word don't

talk about your salary don't talk about

this so is there also an education a

cultural education that we need to do

around

money shouldn't be a dirty word in

certain situations

and you should be more

open yeah so this is I think you're

touching on one of the hardest things

for us to deal with as a society and I

think all of the things you mentioned

are all true at the same time and that's

one of the things that's so hard about

this which is there is no real silver

bullet one money is a dirty word

especially amongst older Generations um

two I've

got um great hope for my kids generous

so my kids is s of 21 2018 14 they talk

with their mates much more openly and

I'd encourage everyone in that

generation like don't fall into the Trap

we did it's like you come from a

generation who are willing to talk

you're willing to be open um do it cuz

at least one of your friends is going to

be smart and would have got the

education I think you touched on another

thing one of the reasons we don't talk

about at it is we know no one got

educated

so how's this for something to

admit my car is now 8 years old

right I cannot bring myself to go to a

garage to buy a new one because I cannot

bear thinking about how to find this so

I

run like by three times the biggest

comparison business in the UK and and I

know that I would sit in that garage and

the dealer would start talking to me and

I don't know how to judge which product

theyan off for me is

right what's that say like I won't buy a

car cuz I like and like I of all the

people I might actually just ring up

Martin and get him to explain it to me

but but the fact is I can't price it so

what chance does anyone else have

courage comes before confidence yeah so

do we need to get more courage to talk

about money to then build the confidence

and the

awareness so

I so in those signed about experiences

that made your career um I was 24 years

old working in corporate finance like an

I was the back carrier I was like the

person that one talks to that and I was

sitting in this big meeting and there

was a big us newspaper company this is

days when newspapers really exist buying

a UK newspaper company and there was a

real problem with the deal and

so i' sat there and it' been going on

for an

hour and I thought I think theyve just

got this a long way around um so I

turned around to my boss and literally

tapped him on the shoulder and he just

went

sharp so another half an hour passed and

I was like I'm really I'm really certain

now and he was like shut up go and get

me a coffee I'm

concentrating okay B Miss

coffee another half an hour goes past

and it's like okay I've had enough this

and I just went I think you got the

Clause the wrong way around and you just

want to put not there and he went to

kill me and the partner from freshfields

turned around and went that is exactly

the right

answer and for me it was the moment I

realized that everyone's making it up

totally liberating moment in my career

it's just like the idea that you can

actually see all of these really

important people and they're all making

it

up changed my life

overnight and I think that rule works

for everything so the fact is when

you're facing someone on a money

question and it can be even simpler than

that if you're sitting in the mobile

phone shop and they're offering you the

all the things like what's the real

interest rate on that mobile phone

contract and actually when you work out

they're making it up everyone else is

making it up stop pretending and go to

your point which is ask the question

that confidence is where you've got to

start agree so there are 50 million

adults in the UK about 32 million of

them have used compare the market

alongside us and the other three big

comparison websites we think we've saved

people about 14 million billion pounds

in the last two years which has been

pretty fundamental to helping people get

through the financial crisis what is

some of the things that you've done in

your career that you've one pered that

you believe is helped you become CEO

lead a fantastic organization that

serves 32 million people across the

UK and have a brilliant team so

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um when you start

off it's all about the task right so

you're trained like can you do that

spreadsheet can you do that

audit whatever it

is and very few people get taught about

people and leading and

coaching and understanding yourself and

I think for me the 1% which is a 1%

everyday thing

is understanding myself and

understanding what the person on the

other side of the table is feeling

because the higher you get in an

organization very quickly it stops being

about the task

and it starts being about can I work

with my colleagues can I find the talent

can I spot the 28y old or the 25y old

that one day I think will be CEO of this

business

and that is all about the 1% every day

because that's about being human that's

about understanding people that's about

understanding yourself and I

think that Journey never

friends and that's chanting to my Chief

Financial Officer who's on the same

Journey cuz he's on the board now and

doing really

well he said look people sort of told me

about this 15 years

ago should I listen to them

then the other skill when you're young

and early in your career

is the

world forces you to concentrate on this

tiny thing which is your

job and one day you sort of you're on

the executive committee or your CEO of a

business and nothing about that thing

matters it's all about the big

picture and the other thing I would have

started much earlier if I could have

done is constantly understanding why so

why are they doing that and why are they

doing that and how does that fit with

the whole business and if you can train

yourself into understanding the context

and what's around you not just I know

I've got to do my job but also why is my

boss doing that and why is my department

doing that and how do we fit into the

strategy of the bank and why does the

strategy make sense which is hard and

that's the 1% everyday

thing if people pick that up early I

think that's also a massive game changer

for them later on how do

you there's a big sign if you focus on

everything you focus on nothing and

another samp I've kind of stall is if

you're too close to the elephant all you

can see is gray sometimes you have to

step away from your own elephant to see

all the perspectives 6 months ago I

think it's around 6 month ago you became

an onxx director of NHS England yes

which is just amazing I I don't want to

talk about NHS England today but what I

want to talk about is what by sitting on

that board what has it helped you in

your career and why is it really

important where it's you're joining an

external board whether you're joining a

trustee whether you're going to

volunteer why is it really important to

step away from your own elephant your

gray

elephant and what can other things that

you can do around your time around your

job and how does that help you and what

has it helped you do so

um it does give you a huge amount of

perspective so Mander and the team are

doing an amazing job trying to recover

the NHS from covid and the KnockOn

effects of it are long and deep and I

think when you see those challenges and

you see how they're trying to fix it and

what has to get

done it always comes back to the same

thing which is it's nearly always a

leadership people question about have

you got the right people in the right

places do they have Clarity do they have

the capability and tools they need and

are they motivated to get it solved and

the more you see things like that in

really really complex ex so so we have a

thousand colleagues who compare the

market um the NHS as a whole has what

somewhere between 1.2 and 1.4 million um

it's just of a completely different

scale and I think but but the

fundamental challenge is the same is how

do you

get those 1.2 to 1.4 million people to

turn up every day motivated to make

patients lives better and that's a

fantastically challenging interest and

if I can help in any

way make that better and that is going

to definitely be a 1% 1% 1% chall well I

think it's going to get better it is 1%

we only got time for one more question

you know what's coming don't you what

should you do a flip what gets you out

of bed in the morning to flip the do

um so this is a great question for me CU

I natur I love the mornings like I'm a

terrible nighttime person you get to

about 10:00 at night and that's I'm

going to bed now um

so one just the sun coming through the

curtains instantly wakes me up um I

have always

had a drive and I think it's from my mom

yeah was make yourself better every day

and literally I wake up every morning

like how can you be better today and

that motivation in itself is enough to

go um and in my current job

both compared to Market and the savings

and the help we give to people and also

NHS England I find two of the most

rewarding things you can do because

actually you can see a direct link

between what you do and people's lives

getting better so waking up in the

morning flipping the duv L A challenge

wow and there you have it I just want to

say mark thank you for joining me on the

show and sharing your knowledge we we've

gone from inter few to 1% to life

lessons to insurance and we even talked

about the Mir cats so which is amazing I

just want to say I when I have a guest

on but I'm not the smartest person in

the room but I pride myself on being

aware with uh common sense and I can see

that you have such a good heart just can

feel it like you have a good heart and

I've I've met obviously Debbie you I've

met you and anyone I don't know what

jobs you have available but anyone who's

watching this watch deie US1 watch marks

one and then bloody get yourself over to

the website and apply or get in car get

some insurance get some comparing going

because you know what people do buy from

people and you're both decent humans so

thank you thank you and thank you for

having me it's been a pleasure

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