Austrian School of Economics and Crypto - Eugene Romanenko

hello everyone uh welcome to the

crypto taxi show and today

we have a guest eugene romanenko

and our topic will be about austrian

school of economics

and crypto eugene is uh also known as

crypto mc uh famous uh

host of the multiple cryptoconferences

we met in kiev many times we met in

singapore

uh and also eugene is

[Music]

known as a specialist on the austrian

school of economics

so this will be our topic and firstly i

would like to ask uh

how did you came to the crypto area

crypto industry

uh was there your interest in the

economics the main

reason or some other reasons so please

tell about this and

a little bit about your background hi

everybody thank you for

this possibility to tell the world about

the austin school of economics

i have an economist by background and

2000 i

finished my education university

economics degree and i had realized that

i do

not understand economics at all it

sounds weird but

it was it was the same when i realized

that

it was a great evil and i i started to

search the answers on the questions that

were in my head

in 2011 i discovered the austin

economics

and the interesting thing that i first i

had heard about austin economics at the

late 90s when i was at the third

of course my university then when i

became a blogger

in 2014

i started with uh quite different topics

sales consulting and so on then

in 2015

14 13 i first handed out bitcoin at the

end of the year

the interesting thing first the word

bitcoin

i heard at the lecture of austrian

school of economics

this time i was living in sap is working

my colleague

uh and the hike institute

founder pablo lusanov the famous

austrian school columnist

uh he's live in the center of san

francisco now he firstly

told me about bitcoin i did pay my

attention that

then in 2017

in the hype time you do remember this

high

time in the birthday of paolo sanof

i cancelled all my current tasks

by business and

how to say

drop down my head at the bitcoin and

crypto

crypto topic of the day i was reading

or listening and then i

realized that crypto and blockchain and

bitcoin are

these tools first time in human history

they are able to

get the humanity to the era of sound

money

real money honest money

which fiat epoch of to

20th century had

stolen some money from the humanity and

the crypt is able to

return back to humanity that is this

book and i

realized that i will dedicate myself to

promote creature i

i said to myself wow i understand that

this thing may return eventually to the

sound money part

and i will not only be the witness of

this

ball i want to promote

as much as i can to

make coming to this block much more

faster

than otherwise that's my story yeah

great and actually you mentioned

sound money i think uh interesting to

know your opinion that's

the main notion which connects uh

austrian school of economics and crypto

world yes because

crypto it's uh all about the sound money

hard money

and we can even say uh real money

uh there is i remember you've been uh

early in this year at the speaking at

the conference

here in this city and you gave a reading

list

there was a book which i also read

by saif edina amu bitcoin standard

and i actually think that it's a very

good book to start for the

those people who don't have like big

background in economics

because it explains the basics of the

gold standard of bitcoin standard why

bitcoin is a new

standard and also like some differences

uh

of uh it mentions austrian school ludwig

von mises

it mentions keynes in a negative way

so interesting uh to know like uh your

reading list let's say let's start about

this because bitcoin standard i think

it's

easy topic for uh everyone it's like

very easy you do not have like to have

any background in crypto

nor in economics and what are other

books which you would

recommend uh to read for the

for those who are interested in

economical background of

austrian school and crypto this is a

very good question

realist it's very important you know

me myself i had read perhaps

all the austrian economics books

published in russian language

and now i to read also glamour's books

published in english for the beginner

who doesn't know anything about austrian

economics

first here's the phrase

ulster in school of economics and at

first he thinks that

this is like such a building in austria

where

guys are going like in school and

university now

the austin school of economics is not

the building in australia

it's not the university physical or

physical building

it is how to say the trend establishing

of the late 70s of 19th century

you know the economic theory is very

very young science

very young science when you try to

understand economics

you will have to deal with schools

classical school

adam smith male ricardo marxism

like the uh logical end of classic

classics

kings and ism monetarism word caxical

and austrian or

marginal scope yeah at that time when

austrian school

appeared there was kind of like big

rival or competitor

so-called historical school and um i

think

is it right to say that the founders of

austrian school were

carl menger and and

eugene bavark definitely pronounce

this well and maybe you can speak like a

little bit on

how it started and about like well well

the beginning of us as well usually we

mentioned carol menger and his

principles of economics book

published in 1871st

1871 so the next year austrian school of

economics will celebrate

150 jubilee then eugene

bambabak former former austrian minister

of finance of austrian

astro hungarian empire came into the

focus in his famous book capital and

interest

the theory of capital and interest the

fundamental book if you are

interested in the category of the

interest

or a person if you say usual words

you need to read then mrs

von mises he turned

into economists after having read carol

manger prince

principles of economics and ludwig von

mises

born in uh former lamborgh uh

which is in ukraine and then i think

all all the ukrainians have to know

about oscar school because one of the

major figures luke and mrs was born in

ukraine upon ukraine

then willie fellmez is a fundamental

figure i may talk about

by howard about them his most famous

books

are fear of money

and credit or money in finisher

fiduciary

system then human action

the main three ties of economics if you

don't if you need

to read one fundamental book in austrian

school of economics i

recommend reading human action published

in 1949 in

new york 70 years ago

and that is the main internet do not

read economics of mcconnell library they

operate samuels and not read keynes

and so on so forth ms wrote

dozens of books liberalism bureaucracy

socialism ethereal history

and much much more then murray rothbert

came into the existence

that one of the most famous

uh people most conceited student of

mises they were familiar

uh robert visited mrs lecture and robert

was the first

american captain not the first but most

famous american capitalist guy

and modern died in 1995 and

he wrote dozens of books robert was a

historian he wrote about

the history of united states the history

of monetary system

history of great depression from the

economic

and economics murray rothbard

wrote the brilliant books of two volumes

the history of economics

those from the austrian perspective

where if you

are interested in history of economic

ideas

do not read anything besides rothbard

book

it exists in english and it exists in

russian language you may also find it in

russian

the in the text version of this uh

content will uh add the links

but interesting to us uh let's say like

for the people who are

completely not familiar with the topic

is it like human action the one book

which you recommend or some others maybe

like some particular

book by rothbard now this book i have

uh i have mentioned these are four

fundamental learning of boston skeletons

then uh

let's switch to the crypto crypt until

they ask f if you

do know what crypto is and you wanna to

dive in

simply in after school start with saving

arms the bitcoin standard it also exists

in

russian language you may find then uh

then if you are interested in technical

side of bitcoin the brilliant book of

fathers antonopoulos

he is the computer guy but he also

mentions

austrian school of economics all the

most famous bitcoiners encrypted though

they asked

they are strictly familiar with austrian

school

not only me

so other santa levels mastering bitcoin

mastering ethereum and even

mastering lightning network our famous

friend from finnish

alexander and kadeem keep right now he's

he is finishing the translating

uh master network into the ukrainian

language right now so

what you get very fantastic good to know

i hope we'll soon see it published

so bitcoin standard of saving amos is

the brilliant book

because it concerns with crypto

consulted with austrian economics

and safety namas is the lebanon-based

economist started in es and he's

austrian school economist

based so i may recommend him because

he's the guy

of correct thoughts of correct

fundament and he also has youtube

channels and he also has

safety.com websites a very very clever

guy

and i strongly recommend to uh read and

listen and

by the way he's now preparing the short

popular course

named austrian economics uh version live

version and

a hard version for for starters for for

the beginners and by the way

visit mrs.org the website of

mrs institute in the alabama u.s the

most

most greatest thing town dedicated to

austrian school of economics

in the united states

yeah also i think talking about uh sound

money

uh we can define and actually i was uh

firstly i was a little bit

surprised why at that back at the time

austrian school was

called orthodox school of the economy

but this is something like which really

continues like from the

gold standard and that the supply

of money should be like limited the

money should be hard

it shouldn't be like easy to print it or

to inflate and the other school

which is dominant right now or maybe

like

two different uh schools one is like

which is coming

from keynes um also we might call it

inflation inflationists and another like

chicago school from milton friedman

they are like they are both they are

inflationists

so they are not for the sound money and

also they do not like

bitcoin and crypto we can remember this

nobel prize uh

laurier paul krugman he said that

bitcoin is evil

did you read this for whom bitcoin is

able

for inflationist for governor of course

the main question is

how much money do we need to

for economic economics to work

uh inflationists such canes

or monetarists and so on for they say

as as much economy grows as much money

we need so we need to bring money for

economy work well from the austrian

perspective

this is a big lie because australians

answer the discussion how much money do

we need

any amount of money will successfully

serve to economic states

because all will be regulated by

prices so we do not need to print money

we do not need to create money

and creating money is constipating it's

producing fast money unsound money

20th century is the era

of the worst money the humanity

ever had i personally call

fiat money like a territorial monopoly

of counts of feeding

because up to 20

not 20 200 countries all western trading

countries in the world

every one of them had established

its own monopoly to bring its own money

which the population of this territory

bothered with waters so-called borders

are thinking lies on the map the

population

is

uh let's say is forced to use

this paper false tokens

government tokens that's why governments

and central banks

are totally afraid of bitcoin because

bitcoin serves as money

serves good as money and

nobody may force you to use bitcoin

it's totally voluntary and nobody may

bring more bitcoin

because squad is limited by 21st million

by satoshi nakamoto

this is a new paradigm for not for us

for austrians

this is not a new paradigm we do

understand that some money

or money and the money is a tool which

serves for

three main functions the media for

change

the story value and the unit for unit of

account

and bitcoin

definitely does well in the function of

story value he still not

serves as a united account and he wrong

not very good serves as a media of the

change but other cryptocurrencies

serve as a media exchange i thought like

uh stable coins

usd that's why the humanity

had trapped had torn to the epoch

of sound money the block of sound money

the era of sound money

returns back on our eyes

with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies

and the power

of governments power central banks

diminishes decreases and they do

understand

this very well these guys

really well know the real

value of this paper and fiat tokens

because

they may not even print they may

draw them out of thin air just by

clicking some

yeah i remember from the book of mises

there is like very interesting phrase

that

he said that like basically keynes and

his approach is like to increase

government spending

to increase like to force inflation

and this might in a way

look like it's helping in the short run

but in the long run that's like very

very bad like we know even recently

there were like several

financial crisis and

he said that many people from that

keynesian approach they think

but we are not interested in the long

run because at the end

we all die yeah but the problem is that

it also affects that this short run

it happens sooner than they expected

yeah and we'll run kings case is like a

guy he's dead

already and we are living in this world

and then

we're of long-run kings and we have the

problem

cain's tried to

try to bam a lucky guy

and we are now lucky and we are living

in the world of consequences of the

canaanite

kane zenius the world of christ with the

permanent crisis the world of

totally increased government depths all

the world

the world of deflating money the world

of

robbery defeat of robbery because

the definition of money as the kind of

indirect robbery of users

bike elements if you are very close to

the printing press

of course you will be the fan of keynes

and is because keynes say

you need to bring more money to

stimulate economics

of course we need to print my money and

if you are putting money out of thin air

we may buy anything and

in some countries especially definitely

those countries some uh people who are

in power they get

enriched totally totally it's

it it is that re distribution of wealth

is the cantilever effect google who is

was richard cantolion

lived in 18th century he said if you

print money the wealth will inevitably

redistribute

from the users of

this money who are forced to do that and

in the end in the result they will get

false

money and the real wealth houses

goods and so on so forth will be

redistributed to

these guys who are first staying the

nearest

of the printing press it's even

logically

understandable by by the common sense if

you print the money out of thin air you

may buy anything you know

and if anybody isn't able to print money

of course you are the winner but you are

the winner

in the robbery game got a winner in

the fraud game in counterfeiting game

is it gonna be the winner in this kind

of game

robbery is crime castefani is a crime

it's written on criminal law

and the main criminal and the fiat game

is government

and central bank in any country whatever

this country

may know

in a way bitcoin and cryptocurrencies

they created

this redistribution of wealth

because it's like you money it's like

both

new money and i will i can say

the orthodox money because it's basing

on

uh everything the best which used to be

in the economic history

and economic as economics as a science

so that was like for example for me that

was a reason why i

joined the crypto space because back in

the beginning of

2017 it was a little bit uh

late to join for uh bitcoin

was wasn't so cheap but i understood

that it's like really

a science because there is mass behind

it there are

economical principle behind it and

i'm just wondering uh and it's really

interesting to hear your approach

because

there are a lot of people who follow

like

mainstream keynesian economics because

this is actually the economics which we

are studying in universities

in schools we are forced to study let's

correctly say

there are some people who uh in

in a way who follow like some other

paradigms like

chicago school some people i for even

follow

the marxist approach but not so many

people following the austrian school in

the academic

area why do you think is that

will it change what's what the results

that's very painful question because

the answer is simple in the

century of government expansion of

government interfered

intervention in economics it is

they don't want people know the truth

governments want

people to believe

that government's intervention

is necessary for economic growth it is a

lie from the awesome perspective

and only austrian school

tells the truth it tells government

we don't

need government to develop economics

moreover government the best

not the best the worst enemy for

economics its intervention

causes very negative consequences

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while communicating i understood that

some people they think that

we still that fiat money are in a way

still attached

to gold some people understand it but

the gold

standard approach it was uh abandoned

many years ago and of course

some people think that what should we

have as a alternative and in a way

bitcoin

is the better option because

firstly it is like security and then

it is probably the most hard money which

and sound money which we can imagine

because

you can't just go and print a lot of

bitcoins many people would like to do it

but it's not possible well back in the

2009

it was possible to mine on the computer

but now for many years it's it needs

like a lot of investment

and maybe this investment is compared to

the investment in

gold mine

what i want to ask you what do you think

like what

other authors whom we mentioned what is

their interesting

contribution in the economic science

uh compared like to crypto i think uh

what's like

relevant maybe ideas approaches because

first one which i mentioned sound money

it is one of the major

issues and what else what can we

name

i would suggest to talk the wider than

the

the money adam and the money aspect

first time in human history the

blockchain technology

took the two main two main

features of the material where i believe

in the first is

scarcity which creates value and the

second is

impossibility of double spending if i

had an apple and i had given the apple

to you

i have no apple and you have an apple

it's quite understandable

so in fiat money system if i have a

dollar and i give it to bank

i still have dollar and the bank have a

dollar bank has dollar and

he gives enter credit so dollar

starts to have two masters and then

third

that's that's one of the main reasons

why the fiat

system is uh fast underfeeding

and we can't verify for example a

bank deposits are they like secured by

the

real money and this is like what happens

when the financial crisis arrives that

when there is some kind of panic or

information and a lot of people they

come to banks to withdraw

their funds then the banks crash

yes and that turn back multiplier the

elephant mission bank multiplier

any any student of economics faculty now

it means that bank bank system just

simply multiplies the masteries of one

fiat dollar rebel smart support and that

creates instability so let's return to

them to my answer

so the blockchain technology first time

in human history

move this to main feature scarcity and

impossible double spending into the

digital virtual world and

the term virtual asset or digital asset

had appearing that means

that these assets this a really new

world

of economics where money just one

function one part of the roles

this digital asset may play

what i want to say that the blockchain

technology

creates a new world where

the majority of humanity may re-found

themselves

in the new brand new rules and

economic what's what's the magic of

economic theory

and the ostrich of economics is the

psynonymous

economic theory because the laws of

economics all

of economics theory they work

because they are related to the

subjectivism to the real people to human

agons

agents and

there is no matter what assets people

use

real assets of virtual assets they

failure

them subjectively they trade them

they exchange them subjectively

the values the laws of value

are the same technologies change but

the laws of economics stay the same

that's why the economics theory or

austrian economics it is very

necessary science everybody should learn

like physics like math like

chemistry because this is the science of

people's economical behavior

there is even this like term praxiology

definitely

and that's interesting like the notion

of value is also one of the topics which

mises wrote

a lot about it so he

took like economics like is the science

not only of

mass and formulas of economic history

but

uh the scientists quite the opposite no

math

no four rules no uh homo economics

just real world subjectively

logic for axiology economics is for

logics if you read mazes

that is how to say i

don't even have the world it's the magic

for logic logically thinking man

it's like a heaven you do understand

clearly

everything it is no matter

what what specific economist we are

talking about manga

hayek or mesos or other because

they are all grounded

founded on the same same ground

the logic the praxiology the science

if you want a very radical thinking read

rudber

if you wanna rate classic logical

thinking

rate missus if you wanna read

so-called social philosophy not

theoretical very very flexible read

hayek

if you want to worry about money in

bitcoin read seven numbers and if you

want to

learn how the classroom school started

to read

manga because that's that's the history

i will also add one interesting

contemporary author

hans hermann hopper definitely has an

interesting

personality and i hope that uh maybe

someday we will meet and we'll be able

to record interview

with him and any other like contemporary

scholars or some

other authors whom we didn't mention yet

uh that's a good question i has i have

already mentioned the missus institute

in alabama yes

the great council constellation of the

modern austrian economies

they are totally related to the mesos

institute in alabama

they are walter black

joseph salerno hans hermann harper

and many other men many other men or

town words

just visit mrs.org and find the

economist

you like more annually they do

such a thing like mrs university

this is a 30 or 40 lectures

read by modern austin school economist

and the on the basis of mises institute

in alabama and over alabama

they cover all the topics from the

beginning of the press

parexological basis to even

cryptocurrency in bitcoin of course

because

because sound money is the logical part

of fostering school

the theory of money is a logical part

and the

example of sunlight like bitcoin of

course it is included

and it is

it is uh they try to learn

try to explore this phenomena phenomena

bitcoin and blockchain

from the academic perspective

from the scientific economical

perspective

that's why astrid would recommend not

even to

read books but if you are a visual man

if you like youtube like me

if you like business mr.org and visus

famous youtube channel mrs media final

lectures

by the way as a youtuber

and you also do a lot of interviews and

programs

uh do you often bring and you do it like

mostly in russian languages or in

english also

sometimes the majority the 80 percent of

them are in

russian language and 20 personal english

do you often bring like this economical

uh topics

in your content because we also will

leave a link to your channels

you've mentioned the main the main

mission

why am i in the cryptocurrency space

because

this is the best way for me

to promote economic education and

austrian school

in the area and in the realm where the

people

are ready for that it is very hard to

promote economic education

just talk to the people on the street do

you know economics are you seeing

logo go away and if you talk with the

cryptic guys do you understand that

the money role of bitcoin

is known is explored

by the austrian economics it is the

close connection

and that's why i'm here i am promoting

natively promoting

austrian school of economics and the

crypto space by my

mission first i'm an economist when i

when i

introduced myself first to say i'm an

also school economist

then i'm a public person and i'm seeing

an interview at the crypto space

and the crypto mc because the

characteristic is like a how to say like

a horse

which drive drives my uh my horse horse

cabin of course kevin is i was in

economics and

uh then i i found this

conjunction this components to

promote arsenic and i was the first what

do you think about like

an idea to make a conference on the

topic of

crypto and austrian school of economics

or more like on the economical approach

but it will be directed also towards

crypto companies and

there will be like a tax section but the

main section will be

economical let's say maybe after the

quarantine

we can maybe find the key as a location

because

why not when the flights will happen

here is a

good city with a lot of people

interested in crypto space

you've just repeated the main idea we

discussed with

elite guys uh followed even kartinsky

a couple weeks ago i started my uh

ukrainian

presence in love the city i never been

and i first

visited a thief spent a great week there

so the memorial memorial

plate or memorial wall of mises

on that academic natural castrate only

and we discussed with uh lubimir pavluk

with uh

voldemort and kurdish the idea of

creating the annual event

in love dedicated to mises

because thousands of enthusiasts

encrypted through the assets from school

gravity

in the world they dream to visit

the place where mrs was born and this

place is

moved and will llv

should inevitably have its annual event

dedicated to missus cryptocurrency

like theory and practice and i totally

assured

totally convinced that these guys will

create

this event because they are dreaming

about that and i will join these

their team and will help to promote this

event to participate

so i definitely agree that ukraine

key i believe another cities they

need to have their own cryptic event

related to austrian economics because of

the military

like like um the place of birth of the

austrian economics yeah and you know

love is also like very popular

tourist city and it's known for their a

lot of like

cafes bars restaurants uh

and many of them are like really

conceptual with the concept with the

topic

and the cafes as a notion is interesting

because

because in the early last last period of

austro-hungarian empire

in austria there were like a lot of

cafes and this and they were the places

where the the work of

both like artists and economics took

place

a lot of discussions took place there if

i'm not mistaken

mises was also frequent visitor

when he lived in vienna of those cafes

and there is for example uh in liv there

is a mazda cafe dedicated to leopold

from

zahramazak and to leave guys i gave a

idea why

don't you create a mises cafe so cafe

focused on the economics and focused on

the personality of mises which will also

have like all of his books

published in in english but also in

other languages

which will they'll have like uh

[Music]

photos you know this kind of memorial

memorial things and

aspects maybe some pictures it can be

designed like

in the style of cafes which existed in

the

in the times of uh austrian empire the

hungarian empire and the

the cafes which resemble austrian

austro-hungarian empire they exist

in the insurance you see so i gave like

this idea

because it's not something which

requires a lot of investment

and in the 2017 when i

said this idea some people in the crypto

space they

they bought like lambos and all these

things so why don't

somebody and i give this idea also to

the viewers

because who knows maybe roger veer or

some other people will watch it and say

like why don't i do it because

it's uh well the this type of business

is not uh

the business where you can expect huge

profits but if you combine it with

education

this is something so i know that rojavir

is a big fan of awesome economics

we talked to him a couple of couple

couple of

times where he was my speaker at the

conferences and so roger

if you do you want to establish

something

relating to austrian economics the uh

ukraine is the best place leaf or

kiev this is the best country for doing

that because

i guess austin school was born here

yeah and for that conference which will

happen in louisville so we are inviting

roger we are inviting like another

famous person who is interested in these

topics from

the bitcoin cash community mark the

messel interesting

investor and his big supporter of brit

cash's crypto blogging platform

and we invite like everyone who's

interested in

such topics to come as a speaker

as a visitor or maybe sponsor so

do you think this conference might

happen like next year

i think definitely yes because these

guys

can forget you and me personally we are

definitely ready to do that

and i really think that after this

current time and

pandemia disaster uh the borders will be

open and this event annual event

might have happened in 2021st

mainly dedicated to missus to austrian

economics

to crypto from the theoretical side from

the practical side because the crypto is

the phenomena

phenomena which is

definitely

the example of the theoretical thinking

of the austrian economist because all

human life is a theory is a practical

example of uh

theoretical approaches of awesomes

yeah great i think we spoke

enough for today we gave like the

information reading list

information for the thinking and if

we see that the audience is interested

in this topic more

i invite you for the future

interviews future talks with

in this format as crypto taxi or in

another format

and we're inviting uh everyone to

comment to

let know your opinion so thanks

have a good day thank you very much

henry and thank you very much now

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