Mind Body Session 1 of 4 with Dr. Dan Ratner & Diane L.

hi i'm dr dan ratner and today we start

a new series with another person of four

session consultation taking them through

the process of the three columns and the

action steps today we have diane and i'm

very pleased to have her with us she is

every bit the goodest and you're going

to hear that but we are going to go

through the emotions column today and i

look forward to that

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if you like what you're hearing and put

your comments below and i will get back

to you personally

hi diane it is so good to have you

joining me here

and as always i want to applaud you

because anybody who comes here to talk

directly on video it does take bravery

and uh i feel like we're old friends by

now though we've been having a lot of

interactions yes yes and thank you and

thank you for your generosity and um

however i can help in my own

process i'm happy to do that

well thank you and i do think this is

going to help a lot of people to see how

does this process go so i'll dive right

in okay uh so you get your your times

worth

um you know because you've seen you've

seen daniel you've seen barb you've seen

the other sessions

today we will uh we'll talk about the

emotions column now for people who are

just tuning in though maybe they haven't

seen it i'm going to just briefly

explain it even though this is kind of

review for you

there are the three columns

that contribute to mind-body experience

and this is this is stuff that i've come

up with in response to what i saw sarno

do

how it helped me and the ways that i

developed uh getting better so the

emotions column is a lot like sarno

sarno's work in general where we

discover the main things that are going

on emotionally and what they can be

leading to and we correlate it to

uh symptoms

the doubt column is about the chronic

conditions though the the emotions

column is about

the onset and uptick in symptoms so we

haven't we have ways of categorizing

these things that's helpful

and that's how i got to this is i was

kind of wondering

how can i organize this for myself

so the doubt column is about the chronic

conditions when we start to think about

it in a certain way that locks the

conditions in

and then there's the power column of

course and i know this review for you

diane but this is more for the viewer

the power column is

the

the experience of the self-relationship

and whether it's in the place that it

needs to be so next session we'll do

doubt column the third session we'll do

power and the fourth one we'll do action

steps to talk about what are you going

to do about all this

so i reviewed quickly because

you i think already have this pretty

well

so here's what we're gonna do um

we're going to develop your emotional

themes and i want to remind you what

those those tend to be like

this again will be you know i think

review for you because you've gone over

these and you've been using this and and

so you may already have some of this

mapped out which will be an interesting

thing for us to look at

but the themes are

very broad

they're very high stakes

and then they're usually attached to

some specific

experience event

um

way of of uh thinking about life that is

unfolded

so i want to ask you because you're

you're in a bit of a different spot than

some of the other people and that you've

been working at this for a while

do you feel that your map the kind of

the rough draft is filled out i wanted

to know what we're working on today

um yeah i i do um

i don't think that there's something

hidden you know i don't think that i

have some

emotional

um

background that i'm not aware of

so yeah i think i know what the biggest

triggers are and

okay so

the way i'm thinking about it then is i

want you to read what you've got

and we're going to polish it and i may

just make some observations you know

there's there's a way in which you

you may be helping people to show what

you were able to do all on your own

okay so so i'm reading out on what my

main areas for the emotional column is

yeah and let's go one by one just read

me one

um all right so feeling of being

unworthy and not measuring up and and

that's not in my whole life but it comes

to me at times and you know some of my

family background and what have you and

and i think that that was

lack of skill with my parents rather

than poor intention

so

so that's one um

i feel as though i was the scapegoat in

our family and that i'm wired quite

differently from my parents and my

sister

so i think i'm

maybe wired more sensitively than they

are

and

in my own experience i see a lot of

people that are

very sensitive more prone to chronic

pain issues

okay so before you get further

i want to actually go back and review

what you've got because i think there's

a little polishing we can do that's

going to make these

even sharper in their focus and the

reason i say this and this is this is

important and you know this

yeah when you get more specific

you will be able to get better results

in terms of the onset and uptick in

symptoms you'll be able to recognize

yeah this is

that theme is active but here is why

this specific thing was going on so i

want to jump back to the first one

before we lose focus of the two you

mentioned okay read it to me again

i'm feeling of being unworthy not

measuring up

okay so i'm going to ask some questions

about this um

what what

in what ways do you feel not worthy when

that happens

um

i i feel like

um

i don't know i think in my family kind

of a

lesser importance

um second class citizen sometimes

that um

what's important to me is not important

to anybody else and so

my um

my gifts my passions are quite different

from anyone else in my family and so

mine are not important

okay and that's getting into that second

theme so

i want to hone these a little bit i'm

going to say back to you how i

understand them okay and i want you to

tell me you're the one you're the one

who knows remember it's not it's not me

who knows i i put out a kind of idea and

then you help me polish it

so when you're saying

um that you don't feel

um

kind of what was the word you used to

remind me again in the first one

unworthy unworthy okay when you feel

unworthy

yeah is it primarily because of the

response your family had

or do you feel

unworthy in you

no i don't feel unworthy in myself okay

see that's important yeah and and now

we're distinguishing so this is good

i want you

instead of leaving it just as unworthy

we're identifying it's actually when you

are not recognized by other important

people

yeah

yeah you're you're made to i would say

doubt your worthiness

yes yeah

okay yeah so i want you to jot some of

those polished notes in there okay

and i'm going to tell you why this is

important what we just did

i'll let you get those notes down first

okay okay now the reason this is

important is if you have a symptom

and you're looking in the unworthy theme

if if you were feeling maybe unworthy

within yourself for some reason which is

not typical for you

i would say that's actually not likely

to cause a symptom it's the one that is

the repetitive one that is likely to so

it's more when you are feeling totally

worthy yourself

yeah but not getting recognized

yes yeah

that's the very see how that's a more

specific theme than just unworthy you

did a great job so this this

you've done a huge part of the work for

me already but this is what i'm good at

is to hone in on the specifics

now when you're in a situation let's say

you got a headache or your shoulder

hurts or

you've got an upset stomach and then you

think about oh

i i don't know maybe i brought something

for dinner and people didn't appreciate

it or something

yeah or

i um

wrote something for a blog and nobody

liked it you know there could be all

kinds of things

but you get to pinpoint it by getting

these more specific so let's move to the

second one and let's do the same thing

okay leave it to me again

um

feeling as though i was a scapegoat for

our family and that i'm wired quite

differently from

my nuclear family my parents and sister

okay so here i'm just going to tell you

how i'm thinking about it

i hear that and i wonder is this two

themes or one theme because

being the scapegoat might mean one thing

and being wired differently might be

another it could be that they're

perfectly together

but i need to ask some questions to know

okay so

were you made to be the scapegoat

because you're wired differently or was

there some other reason

i'm guessing because i'm wired

differently and i agree i think it

probably is two different things

um

i yeah i'm guessing that

it might not be diane i just i just want

to

explore it yeah

let me ask the question again and see

though what the answer is and then it'll

guide us towards that because i really

don't know yeah um

were you would you say that you were

scapegoated

like would they say to you oh diane this

is your fault because you are wired

differently because you are sensitive

because you are

is that what would happen

yeah sometimes that's what would happen

you know you're too sensitive you're too

um you're to this or you're too that

okay how else did they scapegoat you

because i'm just trying i almost got

this

um

how else um

well little little things that my family

would do my um

i i was two years older than my sister

and so my parents always said that they

had a little bit more money so

when she came along what was only two

years different so they would take her

on a vacation

and with her

boyfriend but not me

[Music]

things like that even

when we were both at home you know my

mom would take her out for lunch and say

you don't really like to go for lunch um

that kind of thing

there were several vacations they they

took her her and her boyfriend to mexico

and to scotland and

they gave her a car

but i had to manage on my own things

like that and then you then i would

start to think i'm just being petty over

little things um

but my body's telling me something

different so yeah and listen you're such

a goodist

i knew i knew this about you anyways

yeah yeah but

you know a little under 10 minutes into

the session and you are just

oozing goodism and i and i like that

about you i do i admire it and i and i

i just like it about you but i want to

help you

channel it

you know it sounds like it's it's been

hard in certain ways and yeah

so now i'm hearing actually three

potential different themes i just want

to lay it out there there's there's

being scapegoated yeah there's being

wired differently

and what i'm hearing in this is

favoritism

yes yeah is that something you noted in

your later themes

um no i didn't um i have thought of it

but i didn't write it down and but yes i

do think there's something to that yeah

okay i want i want you to jot that down

and let's see if we can get these three

things into

some kind of theme form

we may end up merging them back together

at some point okay yeah

but the whole idea is just to lay it out

there to get your main issues out on the

table

so being a scapegoat again i want to

revisit to see if we can pinpoint this

was it primarily because you were wired

differently or do you just feel like you

were the scapegoat for everything

well again i'm guessing that it's

because i was wired differently um i

think

my interests in life were quite

different

than my family's

um you know the kinds of things that i

like to do i like the outdoors i like

skiing

where my sister liked going shopping

with my mom and

looking at china cups and things like

that which didn't interest me at all

so i i just was different and i was

maybe more open to

sort of a spiritual path and not

religious i'm not um you know religious

but i i do have a spiritual

um background so that kind of thing was

just not part of our family

i think i tended to see the good in

people

and that isn't what happened in my

family and so i get put down for that

that kind of thing yeah wow this is i

just want to say diane this is very

emotionally rich

it is no wonder that you have had a lot

of symptoms so

i'm going to say back to you what i'm

hearing again i'm i'm using what you

brought

as a template to start um molding this

but i'm hearing

one thing i'm hearing is

um

i was not

i was not valued enough

because i was different

than they were

and viewed as a result as worse

does that sound accurate to you yeah

yeah

i i don't think i was seen for who i am

in my family

right and

really um at this point my my father is

gone now but

um

i don't think my family would know me as

well as my friends that's for sure um

yeah

they don't really know who i am so now

this is this is an example where you

you've got many different ways to say a

kind of similar thing um

and i want you to figure out what's the

right wording for this but i do think

that there's something about being

valued for who you are

versus being attacked for who you are or

shunned or

blamed

something about that uh that's what the

scapegoat theme seems to be telescoping

into as i hear it

yeah

and now i need to ask does that sound

right to you

yeah it does yeah

okay but i need to check in with you

because you're very agreeable

don't want you to just agree i'm not

saying you are but i want to make sure

that you're not just agreeing i want you

to push back because the more specific

it is the more useful this is

i won't i won't be offended at all but

do you think we nailed that does that

feel accurate or is there more that we

need to get at oh i i think we've nailed

that

yeah

okay so i want you to write that down um

something in in your own words

not being

seen or valued for you or accepted

and getting criticized for it

okay

okay now i just want to point out one

thing this is an interesting example

where

what you had written down

almost uh

it got so specific about one aspect

which is a very important aspect yeah

but this draws it back out just a little

bit it's so it's so weird you have to

get the right balance for it to be broad

and specific enough but not

yeah

yeah yeah because i think the idea of

you being too sensitive

is only one of the examples

if it's a primary example we'll make it

its own theme

but i think it's a kind of subheading

to this theme

and the way i think about it is you want

to get kind of the main files that you

click in

and this is it

not being recognized scene accepted

boom we got it

right

okay

uh now remember the work you put in is

what got us here

i wouldn't it would have taken us time

to get there this is much faster because

of the work you put in let's see as

you're as you're um

commenting in your questions i feel my

heart going and i think oh yes i think

you're hitting pay dirt here

so yeah right the body's telling us

right

yeah yeah i do want to make sure though

and let's check in about this

your heart could be racing

i don't think this is the case but i

need to make sure

your heart could race if it feels like

i'm labeling something that isn't

like i don't want to be repeating you

not being hurt i i would be very

surprised if that's what you're feeling

no i don't get that sense at all and i i

think for me it would not be so much a

racing heart that i would just kind of

tune out a little bit or feel a little

bit vague and think no that's it's it's

not connecting the dots okay that's

that's the sense i'm getting yeah but i

really like to stay closely connected to

you and i in this so

good

okay let's keep going with the themes

what's the next one that you have down

and we'll just keep polishing

um

okay was there one that i mentioned i i

said there were three we um

oh you

we talked about um you had added

favoritism scapegoating wired

differently in favoritism okay so i

think we've got the scapegoating and

wired differently in there yeah what

about favoritism

um

well i i've always

felt that way and

my husband now is starting to see that

in my family um

where he didn't at the beginning

um but you know again and maybe that's

the goodism in me um

thinking oh everybody feels like that

and you know you're just being silly and

everybody thinks that

um the other person especially amongst

siblings is the favorite and that's just

the way it is with sibling rivalry so

i have i haven't sorted that out um but

i definitely feel like i am not the

favorite

okay so i'm just gonna make a little

recommendation here um

your body's telling you things about

this and we've got to take it at its

word so

yeah talk about being fiercely in your

own corner i don't want you to doubt i

don't want you to doubt that experience

yeah

um typically the favorite does not feel

not the favorite it

it's

it's pretty plain as day what usually

happens is the person who doesn't feel

favorite

and is a goodist he's gonna doubt

themselves

okay okay that's good to know yeah so i

would recommend that you at least

entertain the idea maybe you are exactly

right about this

and it certainly sounds like it you know

you didn't get the car you didn't get

the trips you weren't

you know you weren't doing what your mom

wanted so

yeah

and this is part of me thanks

it probably doesn't matter um my body is

viewing it that way so you know

nobody's going to sign on the dotted

line going you are not the favorite

but my body's telling me different um

so

probably my perception is

the most important part of it i'm

guessing

i think that's true but i want to take

it a step further um this is where black

and white thinking comes into play yeah

i don't think you're wrong

i think it's important that i would say

that to you

your body's telling us this your themes

are telling us this your whole

experience is telling us this

part of my job is to make sure that you

do not doubt your perception

that scapegoating that happened that

made you doubt whether you were right

you know like they might have said to

you oh you're just being over sensitive

yeah

yeah

diane you're so good to people there's

no way

you'd be mad at people

if there wasn't something happening

no it's not my nature that's not who i

am you know in the rest of my life not

at all not at all so this is why i want

to hammer at home i want i want you to

i want you to validate yourself um or at

least i want you to feel validated by me

that i don't think you were making that

up at all yeah no i do feel i do feel

validated yeah

okay so here's what i want you to put

something along these lines even though

i tend to

let people off the hook

i did suffer

because i wasn't favored

and that felt like a condemnation of who

i am

yeah that's you're hitting it right on

do you have

does feeling come to the surface when

you think about it yeah yeah and um i

found the older that i get the harder it

is to keep that down so if i end up in

tears

it's okay

not only is okay

it makes sense yeah

i mean

you

i know i already know you well enough to

know you have not gotten enough

validation

for legitimate things and that has made

you doubt yourself and your goodness

and that's not

fair yeah

you won't find that with me

i know that

yeah

which is why i'm happy to be here um

well it will help other people i think

to

deal with all of that too so yeah

it will including what just happened

because you

have a tendency to play down

what happened for you and i won't let

you

thank you i'm gonna fight for you

and i'm gonna get you to fight for you

even if it's just internally i don't

mean you have to go outside and fight

with people outside but in here

you have to know you did nothing wrong

and you did

suffer in real ways not just perception

so let's hold on to that go ahead what

are we going to say yeah well i i've

kind of sensed that this might have

contributed to my pain for years but you

know you put it out there especially

around people close and

there's kind of a sense of oh you know

it wasn't that bad just don't be silly

and so i i think i have minimized it but

i've known that that's part of it and

again not calling my family down i think

that they they truly did try and do the

best they could

but it didn't meet my needs and so

that's you know this is where i need to

start meeting my own and as you say

be fiercely in my own corner now right

and listen the um

they may have done their best

but that doesn't mean it was okay no

yeah exactly so i'm it's not about

blaming them it's about

it's about making sure that you know

you don't have to ask permission to feel

what you felt or you don't have to call

into question what you felt

i'm telling you it was not perception

yeah

yeah for whatever reason i think you're

right and so i do feel very validated

with that

good good

all right let's let's keep going at it

what other themes did you have down

okay so the next one is um no one is

really there for all of me

i do have lots of friends who are there

for me but not for the pain

um so i i have been pretty blessed i

have some great friends i have a great

network of friends i have a great

husband

um

and

i they do see me for who i am for the

most part except i i think that value is

put on

being well and healthy and strong and

i i find if i say anything about being

in pain people

just don't even say anything um

they don't acknowledge it and so i tend

to not say anything at all um

i think people

really have no idea

probably to some degree even my husband

although he does really try and be

understanding they don't

get the level of suffering

no and

i understand that as a nurse you know i

know if you haven't been through it

yourself

it is hard for people to see you know

what you're going through and

the nights that you lay awake and you

know you can't sleep because you're in

so much pain and that kind of thing

so yeah the only thing i wanted to add

to it though diana and i this is from my

own experience

i found that it was important

i think this is going to be a kind of

major broad theme it might even be a

core narrative kind of thing yeah

you're so good to other people and so

giving to them

and you're likely to let them off the

hook a lot

and that's not a bad thing

it's a very good part of of things but

it's

i got to help you with the other side

and so

the way i think about it is

it's it is harder to empathize with

somebody if you haven't had it

but they can listen

they could trust you yeah

they could take you at your word and

they could be interested

and so i do think that you

even if these are some great people and

great people in your life and

you know good additions to your life

you still feel that a part of your i'd

say you've here's a way of putting it i

think you feel that

even when you're seen

you never feel

fully seen

yeah exactly that you've hit the nail on

the head with that

um okay they see a part of me and then

i turn it around and maybe this is the

goodism

in me thinking well maybe i don't see

all of them either and

so then i work harder at trying to see

who they are but yeah right and yet i

i have enough experience with you to

like i feel very seen by you

your comments to me

make me feel like you see the full me so

i i don't think so i think that you have

a tendency

to take on the responsibility

and

it's harder for you to just kind of lay

it at the doorstep where it belongs and

say yeah

i

i have never felt

fully seen

so i want you to write that down as

another theme

okay

okay yeah now before we move on from

that one i have a question

what does it mean to you you know like

that that's the kind of broad topic but

what makes it high stakes what does it

mean

to not be seen does it leave you feeling

lonely hopeless

disavowed

uh devalued

angry

devalue angry um there's a little bit of

anger in there no there's a big bit of

anger in there okay um

i i guess that takes it back to not

being fully worthy

and you know you're beginning comments i

do feel worthy in myself and i think my

self-esteem is is is pretty okay

but there are times where i i don't feel

there's parts of me that don't feel

worthy around some people

so it kind of links back to that comment

okay so i i see these as related themes

but but they're

they're different enough that it's good

to have them separated because when

you're looking through your themes yeah

you want to look at okay do i feel

unworthy because somebody made me feel

unworthy uh in some kind of judgmental

way or alternatively

was i made to feel um

angry and what was the other adjective

we used for this um

what what does it feel like to you when

you're

seen in general

but not for this

not fully seen

um

i

i feel like maybe i don't measure up to

other people

um as much

so you know amongst my friends that are

well and healthy

um

if i'm in pain and i can't quite do some

of the things that they do even you know

when i was working professionally that

kind of thing i just didn't have the

energy to get there then it makes me

feel like i could have done that but i

just don't quite measure up okay so

here's here's where i think this theme

is different than the first

what i'm hearing is you say

that

the reason you're not fully seen

is because something's wrong

with you

i don't i don't think that's true yeah

and i don't even think you think it's

true intellectually

no i yeah

yeah and that's the interesting part

there's the intellectual part which i

understand and then there's the heart

part that is

you know gets

a little confusion in there but yeah so

when you're not fully recognized you

start to actually believe something is

wrong with you

yeah

yeah again i want you to push back if

that's not right yeah only you know but

that's what i'm hearing yeah

sound right no it does yeah okay let's

put that down

and then i just want to highlight one

thing and then we'll move on to another

theme

[Music]

[Music]

okay okay so when you're having the

onset or an uptick in a symptom and

you're looking through these themes i

need to make sure you do see the

difference between the themes because

some of them are very related

yeah both that first theme and this last

theme we just did involve you feeling

devalued but the first one involves

you feel that you are valuable but other

people aren't seeing it yeah

and this one

involves

other people aren't seeing the whole you

and that's making you think the part

that isn't seen is bad

yeah yeah

i don't know if that distinction makes

sense to you

it's subtle but it's important yeah yeah

it's a nuanced difference then yeah

right yeah one is about you don't have

any real conflict about you you're not

thinking you're bad but the other people

somehow are and that feels so unfair

yeah and then and then this one is well

if these good people who see me

otherwise don't see this then there must

be something wrong with that part

yeah yeah you know

i don't think i've ever thought of it

like that before but yeah i

that um you were you're hitting on

just the right little nuance difference

yeah that i've never really put together

before okay and these are the specifics

that make the difference in the emotions

column yeah instead of just

staying i think a lot of times people

come to see me and they're like i don't

know why i'm not having breakthroughs in

the emotions column kind of department

yeah and i think it's because of nuances

like this where they're just they're

thinking of it as

unworthy but if we ask questions and we

dig deeper yeah

we separate it out in different themes

so that you can now go through and be

like boom boom boom boom boom ah yeah

yeah yeah

okay that makes sense good it sounds

like this is going to be really useful

then

okay let's move to another one we've got

time for a couple more

um okay um

grief i've had many losses loss of a

partner um

i think i mentioned that i'd had a liver

transplant because of a viral infection

so that was

that ended up being the loss of a career

and finances really shifted because of

that and

relationship so i think i have um

a lot of grief the pain was there before

all of this but i don't think any of

this helped

and i probably have grief around my

family as well

around around that issue you mean or

um

not the transplant but just my

relationship with all of my family okay

so let's take it one at a time let's

start with the transplant

what

what led to the transplant in the first

place um helping a woman on a flight a

sick woman and picking up a virus from

her

and it went right to my liver and i

ended up in fulminant liver failure and

needed a transplant

urgently

yeah

yeah so it was

pretty surreal experience not something

that anybody ever thinks of or you know

maybe more with this pandemic people

think of those things but yeah

right but my radar not before then um

and when was this

when was it uh 2008 and i was flying to

toronto to a chronic pain conference of

all things um

but

totally different way of looking at pain

than what we are now but yeah that's

what it is

this is one thing where we have to

unpack a little bit what what does that

mean to you that this happened because

the way i'm hearing it

your goodism

um

exposed you to something

goodism is good

yeah

but do you do you is that part of what

you felt

um

yeah i i did um

it was a elderly woman in distress on

the flight and i asked for

a nurse or a doctor three times and i

assumed that it was probably be some

kind of cardiac issue which is not the

area that i worked in so i didn't go

initially

and then i thought well obviously this

person's in trouble and

i'm better than no one i mean i i can

manage whatever it is even if the person

dies on the flight i could probably cope

with it better than somebody that had no

training oh my god um

so so that's what happened yeah

so you you rose you rose to the

responsibility yeah

and then i got sick quite quickly

um i'd never been i never was one for

getting colds or flus but i thought that

i was getting the flu when i was away

because i i just didn't feel very well

at all

i didn't realize i was going into liver

failure

um wow so that's what was happening and

then shortly after i got home i was

quite confused from it because

you know the ammonias from your liver go

to your brain and

so ended up in hospital and being

transferred to vancouver and yeah

okay so you suffered a pretty

serious trauma

yeah

yeah so here's what i want to do i want

to see if we can pinpoint what did this

mean to you i'm going to give you some

examples i'm not saying these are the

case but you could you could be thinking

the world is a dangerous place because

one minute you can be fine in the next

minute

that happens or you could be thinking

good deeds always get punished look what

happened or you could be thinking

life is not fair i i i was in a good

place and then it got taken away from me

i don't know which it is

well it could be more

not any of those um you might be

surprised with this yeah let me hear i

felt i actually felt um

super strong because

i i cruised through the transplant um i

you know i almost died i almost didn't

make it and they got a liver at the last

minute

um but i did exceedingly well and you

know i was older i was 55 when i had the

transplant and they kept saying that i

was the poster child

but i felt like i could do anything i

can get through all of this and i've

gotten through a liver transplant and

um

it made me feel like you know what i can

i can do whatever i can do anything

um great so i don't say that to many

people because it sounds a bit braggy

but

not in the slightest that's a lot to

have come come through yeah and you came

through it so well

i felt um

i just i i felt like

you know people don't get what we go

through when we're ill but i felt like

an olympic athlete

and you know

training away nobody else could see it

and it was okay you know the people that

really knew me could see that and it

just made me feel like a pretty strong

person yeah well i'm very glad that you

took it that way and i think you're

right

but from uh from a standpoint of the

mind body map i would slide that all the

way over to the power column

okay what you just described i wouldn't

say is is

that part's not going to be the

emotional theme that could lead to the

upticks because the emotional themes are

always about what was upsetting right

you took something powerful and and good

about it yeah and that fits in the power

column that's when you say to yourself

now wait a minute

i don't have to feel bad about myself

because remember who i am

i'm that person i'm a fat woman yeah

yeah so it's a very important

observation but i want you to put it in

the power column and you know in two

sessions when we get there we'll

we'll bring that back up okay

and i did just want to say this

illustrates some of how

this process goes right whether it's in

my seminars or whether it's in these

individual sessions we are

we are

pinpointing where things belong we're

honing things we're getting them in the

right columns because this organization

frees you up from having to worry about

where do i look and what am i supposed

to be looking at yeah exactly yeah

so now let's jump in

and go ahead and stay in oh i just find

the columns so helpful

um pinning it down like that good good

because now

now we're going to do is we're going to

go back to the emotions column and we're

going to explore this trans transplant

thing from the emotions column

perspective we know we know what the

power column perspective is right and

there may not be an emotions column

perspective

um

but i i think we always want to ask the

questions we want to dig deep

is it possible

that there's some emotions column kind

of

theme

that would be something along the lines

of this

i have to

do a great job

all the time

and that can be a lot of pressure

i i don't know if that's the case but

that's

that's the kind of thing i hear in the

transplant experience where you actually

turn it into a positive which is

wonderful

yeah but is there pressure to do that

um

yeah and i think the other thing was

there were a lot of losses with it and i

wasn't well enough to return to work um

so i lost a career that i loved um

so you know suddenly you're not the

professional anymore you're you know at

home and

have health issues

and then i was on my own at that point

so financial issues worried that i was

going to lose my house so

so yeah there there was a lot of losses

with it as well

okay

so i think whatever whatever those

losses meant to you

is now what we need to understand for

that next theme but first

do we also need to get into that theme

of pressure

to

kind of

achieve at a very high level to do it

really well

i don't know if it's the case but it's

just a place i'm looking

um

can you can you word that in a different

way

sure

um i'll give it a try um

well you you've done you're a very

competent person

thank you

you've done a remarkable job with with

competence and i can relate i'm a very

competent person also but sometimes i

don't recognize it that there is a

pressure or or maybe an anger about

having to be competent

like i actually felt angry that i had to

be competent from such a young age

that really upset me and i didn't know

it my body knew it but i didn't

so maybe maybe a way of thinking about

it is is there anger about

the burden of competence um

again i would not have thought of that

until you asked the question but then

again

my heart's going and i think oh yeah i

think so

okay so your body's telling us i'm right

yeah so let's write it down this is this

is what emotions column work is all

about there's going to be things you

didn't know

the burden of competence

okay okay now let's deal with loss

what did these losses mean to you

i can give you examples but i want to

hear from you first and we'll hone it

um

it i think it meant

that some of the choices that i had in

life i no longer had

um

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you know

well not losses around people but losses

around my profession and working and

health um

it

it just felt like now i was more

constrained and some of the things that

i wanted to do either career-wise or for

pleasure or whatever

were not an option for me not that i had

no options but no i get it um but let's

let's hone it a little bit more this is

another way i want to hone it yeah

i want to get at the specifics of why

it's high stakes and i'll give you an

example like it could be that you felt

like well

i got robbed of my identity

or it could be i

lost the opportunity to achieve what i

wanted to achieve

or it could be i'm

not for sure yeah okay so let's go with

that first yeah

um what did you want to achieve and and

what what got lost

um

well actually

what i

wanted to achieve is is helping other

people with pain and you know here i am

circled around again and

you know working with you and and the

hopes of helping people down the road

um

that

wanting to do something of value for

other people in the world um that was a

passion of mine

and and it sounded like you felt like

after this you doubted whether you'd be

able to do

anything like that

yeah

so a sudden loss of

efficacy

in being able to help people

yeah

i'd put that down because this is the

kind of thing that can lead to symptoms

i'm going to say more about that in a

second but go ahead and put that down

so

um and

not just helping i mean the

the um maybe selfish side is is doing

some of the things that i had a personal

passion for of traveling

um so i'm limited where i can go i i can

travel but

i've done a lot of um off the beaten

track

travel in the past and now i have to be

careful as a transplant patient

and i'm just financially because i'm not

working i'm not able to do the things

that i wanted to do so

there was both the giving back and then

my feeding my own passion okay so that's

another theme and i would say i'm i'm

more vulnerable

and have less resources

yeah

and those things restrict me

from getting my needs met

yeah yeah

yeah okay so these are the exact kind of

themes that could lead to symptoms

you know let's say a friend calls you up

and is like oh

i want to go on this you know

intense hiking experience or something

and in you know some very far away place

and you're like yeah i can't do it

yeah yeah exactly boom shoulder pain or

knee pain or

a sore throat

yeah this is how the emotions column

works yeah

but now now we have the broad theme

we've got the high stakes aspects to

them and we also have the specifics now

in the interest of time because we're

going to need to stop in a couple

minutes here

is there are there any other major

themes that we just need to jot down

that we would get get to in between

session because we're not getting to

them today

um

i would say anger um

i think

because of all of this i have

more anger that i try and not express to

the general public and

and i had asked you um in one of the q

and a questions about ruminating i

ruminate over and over and it's like

i i understand cognitively that that's

not helpful but

i keep going back to that so you know

letting go of the anger okay so let's

put down just

anger and rumination

okay we don't have that one honed yet

yeah but we know it's a theme we're

going to work on and i do want to say to

you

whatever's going on in your mind and

your body is not an accident so the fact

that you're ruminating on it means

something's not resolved

yeah totally yeah

so it's not bad that you're ruminating

because that's actually your mind saying

diane this is not okay

yeah we need a better solution

yeah the action steps and the power

column that's going to get you what you

need with this

yeah that that makes sense yeah okay are

there other themes that we need to know

i think were the

key things unless i come up with

something else right and and and you

could it's probably the biggest one you

could in between now and next week you

could in a couple of years be like oh

wait i didn't realize this is a theme

the mind body map is something that we

continue to evolve but you did a

beautiful job of laying out some of the

basics i think we did we had a very

successful way of working together not

surprisingly yeah

to get this more honed and it does sound

to me like you're seeing how these

themes

are gonna give you

the bullet points to look through when

you're having a new symptom an uh or an

uptick in the symptom and think which

one of these is it

we gotta we gotta hone the anger one

but once we get that

i think you've got your list

yeah no that sounds good

um yeah i still haven't got to the point

where i can look at each new uptick in

symptoms and go okay

that's what's happening but i have had

two or three um

um

successes where things i think of it and

it's like

the pain just goes but i'm not doing it

consistently yet so this is this will be

really helpful yeah the specifics are

that's the difference i think sometimes

you've gotten the specifics and the

symptom would drain away so this is

actually really exciting yeah

yeah we're getting you on your way with

this and um

i want to thank you again this is so

it's so generous

um it's and i've expressed this to you

before i really resonate with the way

that you put it out and your general

demeanor but it just makes so much more

sense to me and

and obviously more and more people are

coming on that feel the same way so

that's great

it is it is wonderful and it's very

gratifying to hear so thank you for

sharing that and i look forward to

continuing our work and our connection

and i will see you next week all right

sounds good have a good week and a good

long weekend all right thanks you too

diane all right take care okay bye

bye

so much to say with diane i find this

with anybody that their life story is

extremely compelling and the things that

they've been through are are so much but

the things that stuck out to me about

this particular process

are that she had so many of the right

ideas so close to right where it needed

to be

but when we probed just a little bit

more we got at some subtleties that will

help her to locate it so much better and

pinpoint it so that she can get better

relief

so that i was very pleased that we were

able to

illustrate that in in this session

in addition i didn't know about her

liver transplant and and how

that was for her but it

it really captured something about the

little girl she was and what she had

suffered through and then being this

good person helping someone out and and

kind of almost ending up feeling

punished for it i don't know that she

felt that way which is to her credit but

the thing she's had to deal with

give us all the reason in the world to

understand why she's why she has had

symptoms and i'm glad she's going to

have a good road map to deal with that

we will look ahead to the doubt column

next session and i do look forward to

that as well if you haven't already

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