Appropriations - Room 210; 14 January, 2026: 8:00 AM

Treasur at the Treasury and the data

match uh would be a consistent or one

time.

>> We we would attempt to do a data match

every year but the the amount that we're

asking for right now at the 22 million

is for a back like I said as a backlog.

>> Yes. Because

>> would you change the microphone please

in case somebody happens to just in case

>> the the system has approximately um well

it has that much money in there from the

about somewhere between the 2015 all the

way up till 2025.

>> Okay.

>> So when we came into this system started

using this Kelmar system in 2022 I

believe it was.

>> That's right.

>> It allowed us to be able to look back

and see how much of that was sitting in

the system and then allowed us to do

these data matches. But of course those

cost money.

>> Yes.

>> But this would alleviate that. As you

point out, we have probably about $40

million that comes in unclaimed property

every single year.

>> Okay.

>> And we try to get that out as quickly as

we can, but it it takes staff and it

takes money to do that.

>> Thank you. Thank you. And for people not

aware, a lot of people think the

Treasury has, you know, hundreds of

people working for it. We have 35 35

people handling over $26 billion worth

of transactions, over $160 million

giving out and unclaimed money in 5

years. We do a lot with a very little

amount of money, a lot of and staff. Uh

we're a real big workhorse and I like I

told you in our meeting, I'm kind of

biased, but I think we're the hardest

working agency in the state of

Mississippi.

>> Understand we do appreciate the results

that y'all give. Would y'all like to um

address each of the budgets or how do

y'all like I want to proceed? We got

four of them here. Let's do that and I'm

gonna let Teresa take it over from here

and because she is more knowledgeable

about the details y'all may have.

>> Perfect. Thank you.

>> Do you want me to just go over it or do

you want to ask the questions or No,

>> if you just kind of want the tie points

where we've got a variation um from the

recommendations or what it is it seems

like salary progressions pers I mean it

seems pretty straightforward the things

with the exception of what we've just

discussed just just to kind of lay it

out there so everybody's aware and then

we'll uh allow questions if anybody has

any questions.

>> Sure. So, as you said, we were asking

for a little bit more in salaries

with the the state personnel board

program and salaries. We're still got a

few squared and all that. Yes, sir. We

still got a few that we're trying to get

up a little bit closer to market rate.

Um so, that that would assist with that.

Again, the 162,000 for the data match

would be for the um cost of running the

data match, the cost of actually putting

checks in the mail and such, and then an

additional position. And then um the

increase to the impact program and the

MAX program are programmatic cost as far

as we have to pay the increase to the uh

account administrator. We have to pay

the increase to the auditors, the

outside auditors that do those the the

various little uh contractual

responsibilities we have to maintain

those programs.

>> Just inflationary increases. Yes, if you

will. Okay.

>> Thank you. Um with this budget, does

anyone have any questions? That is the

um treasur's office. The next one I've

got um are the investing funds. Is that

where you're going next or

>> Sure. Okay.

>> Sure. Um that is the money that comes

in. I guess Justin kind of is a little

bit more in tune on that particular in

the investing funds budget, but um I

don't actually have that number in front

of me as to how much it's going up.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's an estimate. Um we'll

>> see an increases straight across if I'm

looking at it right. What we request

from what we did is $150,000. Okay.

Yeah.

>> Is what it is. All right. And and then

the next one should be

>> impact next which you you kind you kind

of mentioned them. I'm just kind of

looking at them individually that we

see.

>> So we we have the 35 million in there

every year.

>> Um

>> that is for paying some of that

transfers to the admin fund, but that's

a small amount. But the majority of that

was for paying tuition.

>> This is basically spending authority so

that when impact uh programs mature, you

can write the checks for tuition as up

to $35 million in there. Okay, great.

Uh, debt service is the next one. I've

got

>> Justin probably can reach on that one a

little bit more. So, we have the debt

service fund and then the uh the second

one that goes with that is for the debt

service fees.

>> Yes.

>> Um, and that is just based on the amount

of bonds that we believe are going to be

if there's going to be any atlet for

that year. But so to make the payments

on those bonds and make the um payments

for the banking fees and arbitration

fees

>> and pretty pretty straightforward. I

mean, things aren't changing a lot

there. I know that we've um I think

collectively been doing a good job at

buying down debt and hopefully we'll

continue to do that.

>> Yes, sir.

>> So,

well, that's great. Uh that's all of

them. Are there any questions uh anyone

has?

>> Well, let me add one more thing before

you go into the questions. kind of

hammer home the data imagine what

unclaimed money does because it really

is I'm I'm so proud of this department

uh and and my staff over there because

when I got there you know we really it

was one big thing on the the campaign

trail that people wanted to see improved

and I think we've done it but one

interesting part of the data match is

one thing we can do with it just to say

how fine-tuned it can be it's really

fascinating is that when the uh

tornadoes hit Wthal County in southwest

Mississippi uh last year I think last

March I think just went about it. Uh we

were able to data match uh all the

people in the counties that were

affected. Uh so everybody in those

counties and we were able to send out

$1.3 million just to that region of the

state uh so that they could have a

little bit of money to get their lives

back on track. Now we know a natural

disaster will eventually hit Mississippi

at one point in time. So that is one way

the treasury can use unclaimed money and

data match funds to actually help

Mississippian and get them right back on

right on track.

>> So if I'm understanding in short you got

the pool the 20 million sitting out

there you had this situation you

geographically uh geocached it if you

will and it accelerated that for just

that area which allowed you to you know

help a little bit.

>> That's right. And I mean going back to

how little it costs to do this and the

return it's just an amazing investment.

>> Thank you.

>> Yes. Uh, Chairman Hopson.

>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,

Treasurer McCrae. um from the data match

program uh going back to the tornado

situation in Walt County. Are you able

to through that program able to

determine where these people have moved

temporarily? Is it able to pick up and

and and look, Senator Williams, the the

chairman of the subcommittee would know

this a lot better because this is more

alley than in the tech high techch ind.

How does it pick up where these people

have gone to be able to get them the

resources they need um to

>> in a natural disaster when a postman

can't deliver to a post box? Uh this

happened during Katrina especially uh it

automatically goes to the post office

and the post office alerts that person

as well as they can that it is at the

post office and if the post office has

been destroyed it's a temporary post

office. So it will go to there there and

they will be notified that this money is

in.

>> Okay. So they would I I guess the word

gets out that if you have um mail money

or anything else coming in, you need to

go to the temporary post office that's

been set up for disaster relief. Is that

correct? And we will of course at the

Treasury do our best to notify people

whether it's through, you know, some

form of communication that exists at the

time depending on the natural disaster,

what kind of natural disaster it is.

>> Can can this program be utilized by

other agencies? someone u can they uh if

you got for instance some DHS situation

I'm just going to use that one as an

example where they're having a hard time

locating someone could this data match

can you can it allow it to ask uh

agencies to be utilized do you think

>> Sure it can fun fact u with Walter

Michelle a couple years ago uh the

unclaimed money now anybody's child

support not get that child support and

it will go back to the right uh if

someone owes unclaimed money to I mean

has unclaimed money has child support we

will give that child support back to the

rightful person who's owed that child

support

>> so we can use state I would assume we

could do that it's it's an amazing

program that can do so much that we do

not so much right now but we want to

expand it out I mean anything to get

money into the people's pockets of

Mississippi to help our economy which

ends up helping small businesses and

everything of that nature and u it's an

amazing thing

>> I can think two or three agencies that

could benefit from a similar program.

But

>> I will um Mr. Chairman that maybe that's

something you you could dig in a little

bit more on

thinking about how we can use this also

agencies.

>> We use a company called KMAR and I'm

sure they'd be more than happy to talk

about doing business with somebody else.

Maybe we'll get a discount.

>> All right.

Thank you'all very much. All right. I

should.

Yes.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Good morning. We're just going to move

right into Veterans Affairs. Um, if

y'all are ready, we'll uh we'll get

started. Thank y'all for being here this

morning.

Thank you. Yes, sir.

>> Appreciate you.

>> Pass them around if you want.

I got him.

>> You're fine. We're good.

>> I think we're good. Thank you very much.

>> Good. We're glad y'all here this

morning. Over is yours.

>> Yes, sir. Thank you. Uh glad to be here

this morning. Ours will be real short

and real brief. Um as we move forward

into next year,

um as last year, uh we got level funding

on general funds. Uh this year we're

asking for just a little bit of an

increase for 731 which is state office

to give some pay raises. Uh so maybe we

can stabilize our workforce. We picked

up the additional home now. So it's

created additional work but we haven't

hired additional people. So hopefully we

can um get a little bump on the general

funds to give these people a little bit

of an increase so they will stay with us

and we don't have to retrain on how

magic works and how the VA system works

and those type things. and we have a um

y'all been so generous to us over the

last four years since I've been here.

We've we've um conducted or had

performed and we've done a lot of the

work ourself on capital expense funds.

So, we have three big projects left that

uh we talked to DFA and they have

assured us if they can get the money

that they will finish these three

projects and it's putting a new roof on

the Kaziesco home, putting a new roof on

the Collins home and to finish the HVAC

project at Collins and they're

estimating it's about $8.5 million. And

if we can get those three projects

finished with all the funds that y'all

have given us over the last four years

that we will have completely um restored

and improved the infrastructure in every

home.

>> Wow.

>> From the fire panels to the nurse call

systems to the boilers to the HVAC

systems, new roof on Oxford.

[clears throat] So if if you can find

that money to give to DFA or to give to

us and we give back to DFA, you won't

hear from us on infrastructure for a

long long time.

>> Congratulations. That's good because I

know we toured Collins uh two years ago

now and there are a lot of deficiencies

y'all were working on. So kudos to what

you've accomplished.

>> Yes, sir. We have a great maintenance

department and and they they are very

smart on what they do.

>> Everybody needs a MacGyver, right?

>> Yes, sir. And we have two of them that

are just awesome. Um, next slide on the

ACA penalty reimbursement. It started

out at uh $1.13 million and thanks to

the attorney general and her staff and

Butler Snow, the contract attorneys with

them, they got it down to 678,000 that

we would like to get reimbured that

we've already paid to keep from having

to pay that interest. Uh we checked with

um Butler Snow attorneys yesterday about

um any additional ACA penalties and they

said they've only had one agency that

has sent them anything. Um so they're

not sure if if they're not going to do

it under the current administration in

Washington or uh if it's coming later.

But according to them, no other agency

has received uh the 2022. this is from

2021 that they've not received anything

from 2022 that needs reimbursing except

for one agency and they didn't tell us

which agency that was.

>> Okay.

>> So, that's a good thing for the state.

Yeah. Maybe that will go away.

>> Um, one of [clears throat] the things

just kind of let you be aware

um cost increase on the ranking county

home. Uh, we got the architect to give

us an increase or a new estimate based

on the Build America Buy America Act and

inflation. The initial C, the initial

estimate was 80 million. Now it's about

98 million. The VA has told us that they

will only maximize their contribution up

to $50 million, which leaves us about

$18 million that we'll have to come up

with. The current list has not been

published yet. It was supposed to be

published in October of last year, but

due to the um shutdown and other things,

and they told us the other day that they

don't have a clue when it's going to be

um

distributed. So, because the secretary

of VA is reorganizing the VA, he just

took $77 million that was allocated to

the VA hospitals to put EV chargers

there. He took that uh and said he he he

stopped that project. He took that $77

million and gave it to cemeteries across

the nation for expansions and they're

building the first ever VA cemetery in

Alaska with that money rather than put

EV charters at the hospital. So there's

other monies that they're talking about

[clears throat] um re um

allocating to different things. So we're

very happy that maybe we can

[clears throat] um get some of that

money to do different things with. And I

think that's the reason that the

construction list is being held up

because their budget is only $173

million for construction and there's

$1.8 billion worth of requests for

construction.

>> Help me remember. I know y'all mentioned

it in previous meetings. Um the last

time there was a ranking for the ranking

facility. Where did we fall? We fell

right out of it one time, didn't we?

>> The past three times. Last year we were

seventh on the list and they funded down

to sixth.

>> Okay. So we we keep Corbin and LBO

apprised to all of that. But let you

know

>> this 18 million, do we need to allocate

that in order to stay on the list or do

we need to say that? Okay.

>> Well, what what will happen is if if we

come out on the list and get the money,

um we will have to get with the

governor's office and he'll have to send

a letter that he promises that the money

will be there to do that with.

>> Basic just letter of credit saying we

got our part. Yes, sir.

>> Okay. Thank you.

>> Yes, sir. Uh we talked about capital

expense funds. Uh, as I said, if we can

get that money, get those three projects

done, we will be out of your hair for

the next 15, 20 years on infrastructure.

We we and the veterans and their

families, thank y'all so much for all of

that cuz it's improved the um the the

work for our staff because they're not

called in at 2:00 every morning because

the chillers down and and the boilers

are down. So, it's helped us maintain a

good maintenance staff because they're

not called in all the time. So there

there's a whole lot of benefits to that

for y'all helping us do that.

>> Yes, sir. [clears throat]

>> Um we talked about the the the match uh

and talked about the funding for the

>> And the next one um some of the things

that we're doing at the homes we

continue to do is the wound care for the

nurses training that keeps us out of

lawsuits. It's a formal training. It's a

weekl long training that we send our

nurses to to make sure that the we don't

get bed sores and things like that. So

that's money well spent. Uh, our costs

are increasing due to inflation just

like everything else. Increased nursing

cost. Um, we're paying our nurses $35 to

$45 an hour. The new state contracts

that just came out for nurses, some of

them are 75, 80, $90 an hour. And when

we have nursing shortages because we

can't hire them, uh, then we have to pay

that amount. so we can make sure that we

keep the status of uh so many nurses per

resident and and the things like that

and CNAs. So, we're not sure where

that's going. We've been able to

negotiate with a couple of them down. Um

because I I talked to our staff and told

them that what you see on that state

contract is the highest that they can

charge. So, we've been able to negotiate

with some of them way down to make sure.

>> How is the nursing shortage relative to

years past? I know 2122 it was just

horrific. Have we seen some some easing

of that? Sounds like we're probably

still not where we want to be, but

>> still not where we want to be. As a

matter of fact, the uh the director of

nursing in Oxford just turned in her

resignation uh which really really hurts

us to get somebody at that level. But

the reason she left is uh hospice

company offered her a whole lot more

money than we were paying. She has a

couple of teenage kids that love sports.

So working for the hospice company gives

her the ability to not be on call 24

hours a day.

>> Yes, sir. So, we're working with it

every day. Uh, but our concern is with

the state contracts. Uh, but most

companies will negotiate with us down.

Uh, and they've been really good about

doing that. Uh, COVID flu outbreaks

since the COVID emergency has stopped,

we have to pay for all the COVID

expenses, the flu shots, the pneumonia

shots, and all that kind of stuff. So,

um, right now the only CO that we have,

we have five residents in Oxford with

COVID, but we've the nurses um have

pretty much mastered that process and

and and they they they do the isolation

piece which keeps, you know, it from

spreading. Everybody wears their masks

like they're supposed to. So, we've done

really well with that. The uh electronic

health record systems, uh, that cost is

going up. Um, but that's just part of

what we have to have to keep the records

of the the residents. The maintenance

cost, uh, as I mentioned earlier, those

are actually going down thanks to y'all

giving us the money to replace that. Uh,

not only is the are the maintenance

costs going down, but the the the

ability to retain maintenance staff is

has gone way up because of that. Vehicle

replacement costs, uh, that's just we

just buy off state contract. We buy the

cheapest thing that we can can get

Nissan versus and because now we're

traveling from Oxford to the coast all

the time and it's [clears throat]

cheaper for us to get those 20 $22,000

vehicles and pay the gas than to pay the

what is it.72 cents a mile now for POV

mileage and that eats up our salary.

Increase VA scrutiny. Um

the VA um when the current

administration came into Washington,

they stopped all VA contracts and they

cancelled about half of them. The other

half they made to go back and

renegotiate to a lower price.

[clears throat] So, um,

we're seeing some of the fallout from

that because if I'm in business to make

money and I need, um, to to if I cut my

cost, I got to figure out a way to to

recover that cost. So, we're seeing a

lot more scrutiny on VA surveys. Um,

and um, we're not sure where that's

going yet because when you're dealing

with uh, VA u, federal contractors

instead of VA people that like it used

to be, we're not sure where that's going

yet. Um, but the next page on the funds

requested,

uh, we asking just for a little bit

little bit of money to to retain our

staff so we don't have to keep

retraining. and um just $431,000

and then capital expense funds as we

mentioned that I do have one thing um

that I'd like to mention about tradition

the new home on the coast we've had two

surveys they're called recognition

surveys are totally different than uh

the regular surveys that we get at a

home that's already been recognized the

first survey uh we passed with flying

colors on our side of the fence on the

VA side no zero deficiencies

We had a a visitor from the food service

contractor there who had a beard. Well,

when the surveyor was back in the

kitchen watching him prepare for the the

uh evening meal on the last day, he

walks into the kitchen uh with no beard

guard on, no hairet on. They call it an

infectious control problem. So, we

didn't pass. So, we had another one in

December. They sent a whole different

crew in um and

it was like it was a dumpster fired down

there and we can't figure out why. We if

you're perfect on this side and you

continue to do the same thing and then

all of a sudden a couple months later

they come in and say this is all messed

up, this is messed up. So we have a

we're waiting on the final results from

that one in uh December. We talked to

them last Friday. We should get the

results for that on this Friday. We've

already fixed everything that they

found. We fixed everything on the spot,

but they don't let you correct stuff on

the spot. It's they see it. And case in

point, a couple years ago, they found

some mop buckets dirty in Oxford. Well,

myself dressed like this was out there

with a um pressure washer cleaning them.

And we got them all clean and I was

soaking wet and it was cold and went in

and told them, "Here they are. They're

lined up out in the parking lot. They're

all perfect now." They said, "We already

saw it. you can't. We're gonna write you

up for it. So, that's what we're dealing

with.

So, [clears throat] um we should have we

get the letter by if I get the letter by

Friday, we've already got the request

for the other survey uh for February.

And they think that they can do it

sometime in February. [snorts] And and

we've we've hired people to come back on

contract that have retired uh to help us

go through every record, everything

again. So hopefully we will pass. If we

don't, well, last year y'all gave us $6

million. Um, and we're spending about

$427,000

a month for salaries and to keep the

building open. So, we're estimating at

at that rate we will have probably close

to a million dollars of that left that

we would like to get reallocated. Plus,

we may ask for some more. We're hoping

not. Uh, and we won't ask for a lot. uh

you know, nothing like the $6 million,

but I just wanted to give give you all a

heads up that uh what we're dealing with

with the VA survey team being federal

contractors. Our staff has worked their

behinds off. Um the first survey when

they came out and told them, "You guys

did perfect except [clears throat] this

one guy that wasn't even supposed to be

here messed y'all up." There was not a

dry eye in the room. I mean, they were

just devastated. So, it's not because

nobody's working or anything else. uh

talked to Commissioner Cheney on last

week. He he sent one of his fire

inspectors back down last week to go

through everything again. And so we're

getting a lot of support from everybody,

Department of Health and everybody. So

it's just part of the process and new

homes nationwide um fail the first two.

It's just part of their process. Uh and

then the third time's usually a good

time. So we got people down there today.

I'll be headed down there first thing in

the morning. Uh and we will continue to

go through everything uh just with a

fine tooth comb.

>> It um in my understanding the second um

fail if you were just small minor

infractions, nothing. Like I said, you

fixed them right then. Uh everybody's

doing it. Um if you haven't been to the

home traditions, uh any of them, as a

matter of fact, um go. It's a tremendous

what the people do. It really is.

>> They the staff works has worked really

hard. Uh then when you start just

nitpicking on stuff when you got a

133,000 square foot home that's brand

new.

>> Um you know everybody's been through

that thing a hundred times, you know,

and

>> hopefully it's just how it is. As you

said, third time's a charm. We we do

that.

>> Oh, it's not going to be because we will

all not be down there from me down to

>> Yes.

>> the other homes are sending their

experts down. Um you know, and that's

just the way we work. You may go in a

home and see me cleaning the toilet

because they're short housekeeping

people. I don't mind doing that and

nobody here, Miss Watts, our CFO, we all

>> our job is what needs to be done and and

it's great to have that attitude. I

commend it with everyone. Yes, we do.

>> Thank you all. Thank you very much for

doing we have any questions.

>> Senator Tate,

>> um I would just like to say that uh I

think Mark Smith's doing an excellent

job and um if they were going to be u

some marks against him, there'd be marks

against everybody. That's great.

>> Um I do want to we talked about a

vehicle cost and I just want to make

sure everybody's aware of something. Um

so if you if you go to a uh to one of

these nursing homes, you'll notice that

everybody basically is in a wheelchair.

And so for transportation for our

residents, uh you have to have ADA

compliant uh vans. And about two years

ago, y'all purchased a van

uh that was ADA compliant to allow these

wheelchairs to go in. And about how much

did that cost y'all?

>> It's $132,000.

>> $132,000 for one vehicle. Um, the

Friends of Mississippi Veterans

purchased the exact same vehicle, exact

same year for how much?

>> $70,000.

>> For $70,000. And why is that why it cost

y'all more?

>> We were having to go through the reverse

auction process.

>> Just want that to be on the record.

>> And and to to give kudos to Friends of

Mississippi Veterans, Mr. Jack Winstead

and and his organization, they have just

ordered the fifth van for us, which

totals uh saved the state about

$400,000. Kept us from buying them.

Really cost that's at his cost. If we

were having to buy them, Miss Watson, I

looked the other day. We have u a bus

issue in Kaziesco we're working on. The

new buses are $169,000

and that's on state contract. It was

worked out to where we could use a state

contract from

>> IHO. Is that right? IHL, but but you

won't have to go through the reverse

auction process, but the $169,000 a pop

is is kind of devastating to us.

>> Great. Great. Thank you. Any other any

other questions? Um I want I know we've

run out of time. I just want a couple

comments. Um the last year I've spent an

enormous amount of time going around

touring our physical assets in public

property. And for you guys to be where

you are, we I want to commend you for

it. We've got a lot of uh areas in our

state that are ticking time bombs. It's

glad to see that this isn't one of them.

So to be able to do that is a testament

to it. A lot of times, you know, you

don't see it or you don't think about

it. Y'all thought about it. So I

appreciate that. And I do want to

commend you and your entire staff on the

way that y'all y'all dealing with

everything. And um we're very

appreciative. So thank you. Thank y'all

for being here.

>> Y'all have a great day. Y'all

>> have made all that possible. Thank you

very much.

45.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yeah.

>> We're good.

Morning.

>> Good morning, Dr. Ojan and staff. Um,

haven't seen y'all in a while. Good to

see you. Welcome to the subcommittee

meeting. We've got a couple senators

that have joined us. Thank you guys for

being here. Um, somebody double booked

this meeting with another event. So, uh,

I'll take the blame for you guys not

being here on time. So, uh, but thank

y'all. Uh, I'm just going to turn it

over to y'all to kind of go through and

dissect the budget.

>> Um, Dr. Craig Oron, executive director

of ITS. I have with me Holly Sovereign,

our chief admin officer, Stephanie Hedp

Pesh, our chief of strategy. Um, so, Mr.

Chairman, I'm going to dive in and kind

of approach this from a strategic

initiatives perspective. Um, there are

budget tie-ins and then, um, as always,

more than happy to answer any questions

the committee may have about IT in

general. if there if any concerns but

where where I think we're heading. So,

um as was the case last year, we had um

really amazing support by the

legislature to get some initiatives like

cloud computing and artificial

intelligence moving. So, our five

initiatives this year are um three in

essence are carryovers and and

combinations from last year from

basically what the legislature directed

us to do. And there are two net new um

the the two net news really focus on

cyber security uh which is a a

preeminent topic of our time today as

well as shared services in government

and I'll dive deeper into those. So from

a cloud perspective

um the legislature last year um in house

bill 1491 passed a cloud center of

excellence um and directed its to

establish it. Um we've done several

things during the course of the year. Um

the first was last summer it runs a

private cloud. So that is a cloud in the

state data center off Rididgewood Road.

There are 33 agencies that use that and

all that really means is is that

infrastructure is in a state facility um

as a crow flies two or three or four

miles that way. Um we worked with a

company called Slalom and we said you

know if we were to move um these

services from these 33 agencies to the

public cloud AWS Microsoft or something

similar what is that going to cost? We

did that engagement and came up with a

number and that number was $ 8.3 million

to to make this migration one-time cost

to move folks to optimize what it is

they're doing with our partners like

Amazon Web Services, um Microsoft and

Google Cloud.

Um we took that data um and we turned it

over to Elbow and said, you know, we

think this is what um is needed that

agencies would need to do that. The

second thing we did uh we have an

engagement with EY um and EY is

attempting to help IT set up this cloud

center of excellence. So it is as a

central IT organization

can help agencies to get to the cloud

this new computing paradigm.

When we met with Elbow

uh in December, what had sort of dawned

on us was, as you might expect, there's

a lot of um confusion and and potential

conststonation. How do I get to the

cloud? How do I train my staff to get to

the cloud? And so, it did a bit of a

pivot and said, instead of divvying up

that 8.2 to 3 million, we think it

should come to its

not self- serving. I hope it doesn't

sound that way. What we want to do is

partner because the private cloud is at

its with the public cloud providers,

right? So, uh AWS is a great example,

right? So, there's data centers that

they're building in the state of

Mississippi. New announcements they've

made about data centers in the state of

Mississippi. Also, the the private um

the companies that offer these services

um have said that they are going to

match um in in some cases 3 to one. So,

a potential $8 million um appropriation

for its to help agencies could be

upwards of at least with one cloud

provider $25 additional million. Here's

what I think that means for us to to do

this. The cloud center of excellence

bill directed its to work with agencies

to make that move. The work we've done

in the last year with what you've given

us is we're back here saying we've

talked to the public cloud providers and

we think that some of these moves would

be almost at no cost to agencies for up

to two years. That means a cloud

assessment, a cloud migration and cloud

training at no cost to get our agencies

moved to the platform that they need.

Our request is to both update you on

what we are doing with the cloud center

of excellence and put that in front of

the committee uh for consideration to be

able to do that. I have full expectation

that Microsoft and Google will follow

suit as partners and what I think that

means is that it will make nearly

nominal any cost to agencies to be able

to do this. There is a lot of anxiety

around skills. Do I have the right

skills in the cloud era? These aren't

incremental changes. These are sort of

leaps in technology in cloud in

artificial intelligence and having the

ability to get the training that's

needed is really critical for agencies

to fulfill their mission. It's mission

is to help agencies fulfill their

mission and and that's what we're

attempting to do. So on artificial

intelligence, it's also been a very busy

year. Um when I came back into this role

after having done it for about a decade,

um we worked with the governor's office

to get executive order 1584. um executed

um that the governor put in place. Out

of that executive order came several

really great pieces of work that the IT

team did. One was a survey of how our

agencies are using using artificial

intelligence

um which has been published. One of the

things I'm most proud of is an

acceptable use policy of what we should

be doing from an acceptable use

perspective to use this technology. The

acceptable use policy is also imbued

with core principles. Principles about

transparency, principles about how to

really think about data privacy as our

agencies begin to use AI, which they

will. This is a generational

uh technology that's going to change the

way we do government. In addition, the

legislature had Senate Bill 2426, which

is focused on a regulatory aspect. The

task force met yesterday. Um, it has in

conjunction with the Mississippi

artificial intelligence network and AWS

stood up a first ever artificial

intelligence innovation hub where we are

collecting use cases and working with

agencies to develop use cases to make

government better. To that point, the

legislature last year also implemented

an innovation fund, a here to for

neverexisted fund for us to nudge some

of these technologies forward. So, in

addition to working with agencies to

collect use cases, Secretary of State

Michael Watson has a use case,

Mississippi State has put forward a use

case, we're asking for $1 million to be

put into the innovation fund to seed

that work. I think that in doing those

use cases with agencies and using some

of this nudge money to get them there

that we need to greatly pay attention to

key performance indicators. How is it

making government better? If we don't

measure it, we have no idea what these

impacts are. That is the idea on our

second strategic initiative. Our third

initiative of course is something you

may hear a lot about which is public

procurement um in technology. I will

tell you that there is nothing easy

about doing public procurement the right

way uh that is fast that gets folks what

they want to do. We've had a pretty

amazing year with the support of the

legislature. So when I came back um into

the job I did a um a listening tour. Um

I met with the top 30 agencies. So, the

top 30 agencies in Mississippi spend 99%

of the total IT budget, which tops out

at about a little under $400 million.

And I heard from these agency heads and

directors and we put in place a

procurement modernization advisory

council where we in collaboration with

these 30 entities sat down for nine

straight months and said, "Tell us how

you want it to help you do better." We

got that data in October, November, and

we are implementing those changes. So I

I hope we have moved the needle on that

front. With respect to our request, um

in addition to the implementation last

session of House Bill 958 that helped us

modernize procurement, very grateful for

the legislature for that, we're asking

for 1.2 million for its to invest

internally to make our internal systems

better when it comes to procurement. We

already have um in front of us an idea

to use artificial intelligence to

develop a bot that will help agencies

get through their procurements better.

Um we're calling our bot madam procure.

You know it's you got to come up with

something somewhat creative um to do

that. So, I think we are both leaning

into the functional changes with public

procurement, but we're also leaning into

eating our dog food, as the phrase goes,

right? Using technology inside of it to

make us better. That's number three. The

two others are those three are um

combinations and sort of the impetus

that the legislature ga gave us last

session. Two others. The first I'll talk

about is um I'm going to talk about

shared services first. We have draft

legislation uh that we have shared with

the house and senate about the this is

the question it pers

um in a federated state right we don't

have an omnibus technology budget each

agency receives individual funding how

can I in the role that I have as the

executive director of technology sit in

front of the legislature and say we are

making the best and smartest decisions

to optimize those appropriations. We

have legislation for you to consider

this session that brings people to the

table and sort of takes the next step in

sharing. It takes the next step in

optimizing these services um across all

of government. The initiatives that

you've pushed us forward on cloud and AI

do that. We're kind of getting to those

sort of present at the creation. We're

doing those out of the gate. there is a

whole lot of legacy solutions and

systems. So that is our fourth

initiatives which is really about um the

optimization of shared services across

government and we would like nothing

more than to be able to do a whole lot

more with less and deliver great

government um for Mississippi citizens.

The last initiative is cyber security.

It didn't fully make my list last year

because I think we had some catching up

to do and some momentum to gain uh

moving procurement which I know there

were a lot of um complaints about but

cyber security is um one of the top

issues of our time. So I belong to the

national association of state CIOS and

it has been the top issue out of 10 for

12 years running. This was the first

year that artificial intelligence took

it place. So it is something that all 49

other states grapple with. What we have

in your packet is an idea to begin to

mature even further cyber security in

state government and it is an idea to

acknowledge the need for a security

operations center. um in 2017. I was in

this role before and we were able to

pass with legislative support the first

enterprise security program in the state

of Mississippi and now of course you

know you blink twice and six or seven

years or eight years go by. I think it's

time to consider the next step. How do

we make cyber security a much more

mature and robust and we reduce risk in

state government? And so there's

legislation um to do that. With that,

Mr. Chairman, that is sort of our

initiatives. If there are any other deep

dive specific to the budget uh personnel

asks or any other issue, I'd be happy to

feel those questions.

>> Thank you. I appreciate um the

explanation. Before um I've I've asked

for questions. I've got just a couple I

want to go through. Just a little bit of

clarification on stuff. First one's

about the $ 8.3 million for the cloud

migration. As I understand it, simply

put, if we take that money, we park it

at it, you'll be able to go forward with

moving agencies that are not that pretty

much may be on legacy systems into the

cloud.

>> You'll be able to do it in a uniform way

short of taking the $8 million and

spread it across agencies where you may

get the agency doing it different ways.

Seemingly that that would be a more

efficient way to do it. On the other

side of this, would we expect savings on

these legacy systems? I know that you

know we'll see asks from agencies for a

new um mainframe or something that

should if not go away all but go away.

Is that correct? It

>> it's correct. I think the key one of the

key things is when you move to the cloud

you know there's no pixie dust there.

This is work right. It is a different

computing platform. What this does

because it runs the private cloud and

the relationships that we have with

these public cloud providers. When

agencies make that move, we want to

optimize what it is they're doing in the

cloud. You cannot just put something in

the cloud and expect it to run more

effectively.

>> Sounds to me like if we house at it and

we do it, we begin with an enterprise

level pricing instead of an

individualistic pricing. Am I right in

that assumption?

>> Those relationships exist already. And

um I actually asked the question before

my budget hearings this week um if I

could talk about this. So the match

dollars are real. That that's not

subjective or a guess. I've been told

that there's going to be a $25 million

match. So I think it's really critical.

This is really about modernizing. It's

really about um you know, as difficult

it is for everyone. It's certainly

difficult for it because I stare out the

window every day at a 14,000 square foot

tier 3 plus data center. The world's a

different place in 2026. and we very

much want to um work with our partners

to to be able to get there. The other

idea is that

despite [clears throat] the fact that no

one would really argue that cloud is

new, I would argue that in Mississippi

it is new. The vast majority of systems

are premise-based, right? So, it's

either infrastructure living in the

state data center or infrastructure

living at agencies. Over time, all of

that in one form or another will land in

cloud and we really want to get this

stream started and moving the right

direction

>> and I think we did legislation that

makes it a priority to transform into

the cloud. So, yeah, it's become a

priority where maybe it wasn't the

priority in the past.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Okay. Um, next thing, um, shared

services. Glad you mentioned that. We

had a previous budget conversation just

a few minutes ago about data match

software. Uh we had $130,000 request to

use it to be able to allow the Treasury

Department to be more efficient in um

putting out unclaimed money. And the

question was asked by the chairman, can

we take this and use this across

agencies? Am I right in assuming that

there's a situation there with as you

move forward with your shared service

initiative, we'll be able to see where

we can leverage that data match money we

may give to one department or one agency

rather that we can use it across state

government because that he has a great

use and don't get me wrong I hope we end

up doing that for them but we might be

able to use that across 10 agencies. The

shared services model that that you're

we're talking about will allow us to see

those opportunities and take advantage

of them. Am I correct in assuming that?

>> Yes. Yes. I mean so there's a there's a

classic and legacy kind of concept here

right so the classic legacy concept is

networking telecommunications the things

that sort of get shared now cloud and AI

already on a good path this idea of of

of legislation to shore that up means we

literally get around the table like like

I did in the last year with procurement

modernization and stare straight at

people and pose those exact questions

right and what we would love to do is,

you know, and this could be part of the

legislation, maybe we create a report

that we would come back to the

legislature and say, "Here's where this

year we think the top three things or

five things are." Um, I'm going to say

this with all difference and respect. I

don't think I don't really believe much

in snowflakes. I I think we ought to be

able to share a whole lot more than we

do. Um, in I use the cloud as a great

example of that, right? Um, Amazon and

Google and Microsoft are the companies

they are because a whole lot of folks

use what they offer. Okay? If if these

companies can serve um the Fortune 100

and the Fortune 500, there's no reason

why they can't serve government more

collectively.

I think we collectively as agencies like

you know there's $1332,000

spend that has a singular purpose to me

that's justifiable but we might be able

to take that and share it across

agencies and not have duplicity. We may

be spending that thing in three

different agencies. So again this seems

to push us in the direction to where we

want that 400 million where there's some

degree of duplicity will reduce that

number. Am I

>> well I mean the goal would be to reduce

it and to actually on the other side get

better at what it is that we do. One

last question, I'll turn over. Um the $1

million for the AI that we're talking

about, this is kind of seed money to

kind of go, we set it up last year to

move it forward. Do you suspect we have

opportunities for there be some match

money that may come into that over time?

>> Okay. So, so we might have some leverage

opportunity.

>> So, different states from from my

career, different states handle

innovation funds differently. So, with

the legislaturator support last year, I

think our approach with it this year is

we wanted to be super focused. AI is

this thing that could change the world.

It could change government really wanted

to both stand up the hub right where

things happen. This isn't imaginary but

work with agencies develop use case. We

have active fully built out use cases

already in hand. This is not something

we have to go do. So these dollars and I

also want to really reemphasize. Um you

can't move what you can't measure. I

think we have to measure the impact that

these solutions make. those trends

really coming back in front of this body

with that data is wildly important.

>> I think it's very important to have an

alli you know qualitatively obviously if

we can but the qualitative aspects

another thing that plays into it

efficiency of government the window

policy all the things that we're trying

to do and implement to make the

experience for our citizens and the

people that interact with government

better so the better we can quantify

that uh like I say qualitatively and the

dollars I think helps us and and look at

the appropriations process. Thank you.

Uh do we have questions by any of the

members?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know we're

short on time, but um that's a lot to

digest and and I I really uh I have a

bunch of questions, but I I think just

in the interest of time, maybe we can

have another meeting.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Um either in my office or Yes, sir.

>> someplace cuz um

>> uh I do want you to be thinking about

how do we get our agencies because I've

dealt with this like you have for a long

time and some don't want but they've got

their system. they like their system.

They want to do what they're going to do

and um and they they're afraid I think

to get into a shared services type

arrangement and also afraid of um a

losing control I guess for lack of a

better term. So, um I I need to dig a

little deeper with you on that because

it is a big deal and as the chairman

pointed out um you know we we we're

we're peacemealing spending money on

different things and have been for a

long time and just need to get to a

place where we're more efficient u but

also that the agency directors know what

they're doing within their agencies and

and don't have to totally rely on

somebody else outside and and and in in

addition I want to get into the AI stuff

a little bit more. cyber security.

That's of course a big issue, but we'll

have to arrange for another meeting

because there's a lot a lot of stuff to

discuss here. Thank you.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Yes, ma'am.

>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I mean, um about

how much are you all spending on

training?

>> On training for AI?

>> Yes.

>> So, let me let me throw a shout out when

I do that. So, the state of Mississippi

is extraordinarily lucky. There were two

consorts focused on AI. um the AI

collaborative um in Mississippi that Dr.

Ashley Cifus, a Mississippi State

undergrad graduate, runs and the

Mississippi artificial intelligence

network. Both of those entities are very

much focused on pipeline and training.

And so I it was so refreshing in coming

back to that to this job that those

entities are out there. So the

Mississippi artificial intelligence

network is run out of Mississippi GF

Coast Community College. Um Dr. Colin

Napier is their director. And so in

reality, we're really bringing a lot of

folks together very very regularly for

for training. Um and to be candid, um

the vendor community is very excited to

get in front of folks to do that. So I

would suggest to you that it's nominal.

Um any dollar expenditure specifically

on training um is nominal. But I've been

I've been thrilled with that in the last

18 months. Yeah. Sure.

>> Any other

Thank you. One last question on the um 8

million million dollars respectively.

Are those onetime asks or do you think

they'll be recurring or there'll be

other chunks?

>> In my house hearing on Monday, I was

asked if we could split that up over two

years. Absolutely. Yes. And yes, it's

one time. It's meant to be once that

migration happens, those agencies are in

the cloud and you sort of go from

basically a capex to an opex because

it's utilization based one time only.

>> Thank y'all. As chairman stated, a lot

of information from information

technology. Thank y'all. Have a great

day.

Good morning, y'all. Um, chairman is not

doing a good job of keeping us on time,

so we'll go ahead and try to get started

if y'all can. I'm doing great. How are

you? Good, good, good.

>> How are you, man? See,

appreciate y'all being here. Um,

I'll let you go. It's all yours,

>> please. Yes,

>> that work better.

>> Sure. We've got thousands of people

watching this this morning.

>> Oh, I hope not.

>> Um, well, um, good morning, Mr. Chairman

and members of the committee. Thank

y'all for allowing us to come present

the Wireless Communication Commission's

budget this morning. Um for 27 um I have

with me our chairman who Mandy Davis

from DPS have deputy director Michelle

Denham and then the system administrator

Dent Guines. So if we get to difficult

questions I'll just turn it over to

them. Um all right.

>> Okay. You have several handouts. Um, and

we'll start with the first page. And

this is just the typical one I usually

bring that's got um what we requested,

what Elbow recommended, and then what

we're um re-requesting

uh or the difference, and then our final

request for um for the fiscal year. So

um on certain salaries uh Elbow

recommended a reduction of one position

moving the WCC from nine and then moving

us from nine to eight positions which is

was a reduction of 57,000 and I'm asking

for full funding. We did get cut last

year. We're just a small commission. We

need everybody we have. So, um I would

ask that y'all would restore that to us

and 180 uh uh 189 um 895,41.

So, in travel, we're asking that um

Elbow's recommendation uh recommendation

be accepted, 10,000. That's plenty of

money for us. In contractual services,

Elbow recommended a $96,000 reduction

and we're asking for that full funding

um for contractual services. you know,

90% of our budget goes for the support

of the MissWin system and so we're not

we don't have extra money sitting

around. Um we have 161 communication

sites. Um two were completed last year.

The full system has 186 sites, but you

have certain counties that have their

own sites. Um we have tower leases with

three different companies. So we also

have um the cost for those tower leases

is 5.86 million. Um we do have increases

every 5 years on those. We also have we

own 88 towers and mostly in the northern

part of the state and those northern

ones we have land leases on those and

those land leases run about 481,000 a

year. Our system environmental

maintenance is 3.2 million. Now that has

been at that price for almost 16 years.

So we have kept it low. It is going to

go up. Um I want to explain that a

little bit more in depth a little bit

later in the presentation. But as you

know we have hardened sites, we have

generators, we have HVAC, we have

everything that supports that system in

an emergency situation. Um uh the

contract again with Motorola will expire

um June 30th of 2027. That contract has

been in place since the inception and so

um again the cost that we've been given

are going to go up. Utilities our

electricity at all these sites is about

880,000 because we do have electricity

at all of those sites. Repairs we're

asking for 100k um on that which is to

repair equipment um that is not covered

on under the other contract. IT

contractors if you remember we reduced

this we're asking for 150. We reduced it

from 300,000 in previous years. And then

administrative cost 134. That's just our

basic admin costs that we have. In

commodities, we're asking for Elbow's

recommendation to be accepted. The

majority of that is for propane. Um we

have at all of our sites, we have

thousandgalon propane tanks. We keep

those full. We keep those ready should

we have any kind of emergency. Those are

ready to go. So, if you're up in the

northern part of the state, have an ice

storm, you don't know how long those are

going to run. And to get a propane

company in there to fill up, uh, is a

little difficult. So, we keep those

full. So, that's where the majority of

commodity money goes. In capital, we're

asking for a restoration. We had asked

for 250,000.

So, we're asking that that be reinstated

to us, but I also have additional

requests on top of that that you'll see

at the bottom here. So, we're not asking

for any vehicles. We have older

vehicles, but they still run. So, we're

still running them. And uh we don't need

any subsidies, loans, and grants at this

time. So, but if you'll refer I want to

before I go any further to call your

attention to the second page that you

have in your handout. It's a legal size

sheet. And I wanted to go over a few

things with you um on this. Um we talk

about our aging equipment. And as you

know, we have over 150 generators. We

have um over 300 HVAC systems at these

sites. We have 161 UPS's, DC chargers,

lighting systems. Um we have antennas,

coax cable. We have all of this stuff

that is on each one of those sites and

they're aging. Some of these sites were

built in 2009. So some of them are

reaching right at 17 years. So now

generator, you got about 20 to 25 years

is how long those will last. And we've

well we've taken good care of these. We

run them every Monday. We make sure that

they're repaired. We do all of the

preventive maintenance on them, but they

do they have age, especially those down

near the coast. That was zone one when

we built those out. So, what I want to

say to you is that I would like for us

to have a plan on a replacement of that

infrastructure. Um, and so I am asking

for an additional appropriation of 2.5

million for this year, starting this

year for 10 years. The reason for that

is to start replacing the equipment that

is aging. Um that we don't want to be

like Jackson Water where the

infrastructure was not taken care of.

This is important. You have 68,000 users

or subscribers on this system. We don't

want your police in

wherever county, wherever city to not be

able to. you may be fixing to get here,

but um if I'm reading this right, you're

looking for a $1 million annual general

fund to reappropriate and mostly time

off revenues, off of rent release at the

moment.

>> Yes, that yes. Well, if you'll look to

the right, we have we generate 1.5

million and so it's used to be special

funds, but you know, we don't have

special funds anymore. So, a different

appropriation if you can appropriate

that 1.5 back to us and then add a

million to it. 2.5.

>> That money currently is going to the

general fund.

>> Yes, it goes straight to the general

fund. We don't get that. So, and I it's

difficult to get that back.

>> Chairman has a question.

>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Unfortunately,

I got to run in a second, but I just

wanted to ask this question. We just

finished with its a minute ago, and it

just got me my interest peaked on are

there any new technologies? I mean, I

understand the challenges you have at

trying to maintain the equipment and and

making sure that we got a good

communication system available for

especially emergencies, uh, if nothing

else. Is are are there any technologies

that look like they may be coming down

the pike that would help um save a lot

of money? Is there something, you know,

this satellite base, Starlink, anything

that that

>> Starlink's great

>> that that would allow us to not spend so

much on the equipment

um that's dependable that we could

utilize to save money because I can see

I mean I know you've got some

significant capex uh cost in your

agency.

>> We do. Um, I don't know that I've

thought about Starlink taking the place

of any of this because we've you use

that what we're talking about like the

environmentals

>> that is keeping the system running and

so but there are techn you know

technical changes or technology changes

but the money goes up. Starlink though,

Starlink is a great thing to utilize.

Um, and that's what you'd want to

utilize if we had a really a real

emergency. Um, we actually have one that

we utilize now or we have to utilize. I

will say that there is some technology

just like we use a UPS. They have a um

and we run a AC and DC power at these

sites. You can buy something that's

called I forget the name of it. We have

one and it will run ACDC. So you you

eliminate all those 12 batteries. We

have like car 12 car batteries at a site

that runs the microwave or backup for

the microwave. And then we have um the

UPS's that run the other side. You can

get this one thing. What's it called?

ZPM. And so you get that ZPM and it runs

both and it so

it's a little bit of a savings but not a

big

>> Yeah. I'm just looking for technologies

and I think we all are to try to help

you and make sure you can provide the

service that you're providing but also

keep cost down because I I have a

feeling that one day maybe long after

any of us are here that this is going to

be uh a system where you don't need you

don't have all these maintenance costs

to be able to provide that service. And

I I'm

>> we just finishing technology talking

about new ways of getting things done

and sometimes they cost a little money.

I pay a little bit more upfront to save

money long run if we needed to. But

that's that's the kind of stuff that I

>> Let me let me give you one other idea

here. Um and it's one that I've toyed

with but haven't gone too far with it.

Um

>> the um one of our our vendor has a radio

that roams from LMR to LTE to Wi-Fi.

>> Yeah.

>> So it will So if if our tower if they if

they're out of range from our tower,

cellular will pick it up.

>> Okay. So you can talk anywhere in the US

out of the country on our system.

>> Okay,

>> that radio costs any around $8,000.

Now the problem I have with that that

technology then reduces the number of

towers you need. So if you have that

radio on a 99 98% of the year, you can

use that radio all the time.

But what I am concerned about is

cellular goes down. And when your

cellular goes down, if you don't have

the LMR tower, the radio doesn't work.

But if you if you could somehow work it

out where you had those those radios,

um, so 98% of the time you're going to

work, but if that hurricane hits, it may

not work. Does that make sense? It

>> does make sense. I just think that we

need to there may be a way to make it

work 100% of the time and that's what

we're looking for. But

>> thanks. I've got I've got to run to look

that's what I wanted to and I'm sure the

chairman will dig into that a little bit

deeper with you because I think that's

important.

>> Yep. Great. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Um if I can go on to the

system maintenance. This is the big um

upgrade that [clears throat] we're

looking at. Um Motorola is changing the

platform 2032. they are not going to

support the current G series platform

that we have. They're moving to a D

series and that D series um is going to

cost money. Um they and as I said they

will not support what we currently have

past 2032. Now the entire US or anybody

who has our system, they're in the same

situation. So I think other states are

waiting to see what we're going to do.

Louisiana, Arkansas. So I don't know if

they'll push that year out. They've

already pushed out two years. Maybe

they'll push out a little bit more. So,

I hope they do. Um, but if they don't,

we we need to go ahead and get prepared

for that because to to change all 161 of

our sites plus the other sites that make

up the whole 186 system is going to take

a

>> If you don't mind, for for the sake of

let me just ask a few questions. What's

the total cost to do the upgrade?

>> Um, what they call a bundled um

budgetary price. They're looking at 152

million.

>> Okay. So, what's going to be the ask

over period of time? So what I'm asking

for now because we have not negotiated

on it, I'm expecting that we'll that

number will come down. So my ask over

10-year period would be 12 point I put

12.2 million.

>> So you anticipate knocking 30 million

out of that ass that initial. I hope we

do because I know we've been able to do

that.

>> I can pretty much think that we're going

to be able to to knock that out.

>> What is our annual maintenance of

Motorola now?

>> 3.2.

>> I'm seeing um 10 million on here now.

>> Yes, you are. Is that the number that

that that

>> we don't like it?

>> We don't like it. Um

>> sir,

>> yeah, I I do not like it. Um what we

will do, I will tell you this um is that

there are certain things that we can

that uh that we pay for now that we pay

them for. What we need them for is the

RF microwave,

>> right?

>> There are other I know I know that we'll

bet that as we go forward and

>> we'll work through this. This is a need

that's out there and as we've discussed,

we need to have it out there in front of

us. I know that we'll try to be diligent

to work this number down and speak and

to speak a moment to I think what

Senator Hopson was addressing is you

know obviously today who doesn't land

we grew up with one that's a technology

that has sunseted and I think where

Senator Hopson was going chairman Hopson

was going was you know we might be going

off satellites in 10 years it might be

what we do and we don't need towers so

um I'm going to assume I know that we

and you guys are always diligent looking

at those emerging technologies and it

comes down to level of um uptime that we

want. Is it 98 or is it 99 with 49?

That's typically what we go for. 99.9999

and all we got to do is put uselves here

um August the 30th, 2005. We need a

system that's going to be there then.

So, I think we'll be diligent about

that. But always look for the emerging

technologies and some of these things

are not mature yet. But as we'll look at

potentially $115 million expense, I

think we all need to be diligent as we

investigate technologies that will allow

us to retain that uptime, which I think

is number one, keeping it at a minimum

cost. So, thank you.

>> And that's what we look at from um when

we talk about our 68,000 subscribers,

you're lifeline.

>> Oh, yeah. It's kind of genuine has an

opportunity to go to this one's

meetings. I've been on that board since

I've been here just about and they've

made most of the meetings. So, it's it's

very good. It's a relevant really

but the testimonies of where this

communication systems the essential

necessity of it in our state you don't

have to go to but one meeting and you'll

know that. So so thank you. Yes. So we

have a few questions very quickly

please. Senator Moore.

>> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Um just two

quick questions on your your budgetary

deal request. Um you get down there on

the line admin administrative services

including cell phones. Is that just for

your staff?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Yes, we have um uh the technical

staff. I don't have one the I use my own

personal one, but the technical for

technical staff, they have cell phones

that they use.

>> Okay. Thank you. And and the other as

far as the bundling with Motorola, I

have talked with other emergency

first responder groups and they tell me

there's other uh

suppliers out there other than Motorola.

and under our statute, the way that each

is supposed to be compatible with our

system. But that don't tend to be true,

does it? Um, no sir, that it's a P25 is

what you're talking about. It's a

national standard. And so Harris, you

know, other vendors sell a P25 system,

but to connect our systems, you have to

have what's called an interfa. It's a

it's an interface, and it's not it's not

a permanent necessarily interface. So,

you run the risk of not being totally

interoperable. So, that's what what we

have right now is a top-of-the-line

system. And so, um, we're coveted by

other states. And so it's it's one of

those things that Harris does sell a

system. Um it's not it's

it's not as well used as as the system

the Motorola system that we have. So but

it is supposed to be compliant but you

have to have an interface that that

connects the two.

>> Thank you ma'am.

>> You're welcome.

>> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Just a quick

question. The towers that you have do

you how many towers do you have

>> that we own?

>> Do you do you alo lease them? We own We

own 88.

>> Okay.

>> We lease 6 I'll get my numbers not quite

right. Um but we lease about 66. We have

some collocations about eight or nine. I

have the numbers. I'm just not looking

down at them. But

>> do you require maintenance on them on

annual basis or

>> the towers?

>> Yeah,

>> we have them looked at and should we

have an issue, you know, towers can go

for years and so we have some that are

guides, some that are self-support. So

we do have those looked at. We don't we

not have them on an annual maintenance.

where we're going with that. I know MPD

has towers across the state and I know

last few years we've been upgrading

those. I didn't know if it was feasible

for y'all to share services with them or

even MPD using some of your towers. To

be honest with you, I don't know

>> couple of theirs.

>> Okay.

>> And so we we do check theirs um because

we want to make sure that our towers

have to meet a certain standard,

>> right?

>> And so we do make sure that those are

okay. Um but we have been in

conversation with MPB about their towers

and um to see we've actually looked at

some of theirs because we'd love to be

you know if we need a place to locate

that'd be great.

>> Um but um we we do not we are not on an

actual maintenance plan as of today.

>> Okay. The tower I know they weren't for

a while and now we're trying to catch up

with them. So maybe something you could

share with them or think about that

coming up.

>> Yes.

>> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes,

thank you very much. Appreciate y'all

being here and and this is one of those

things the the uptime is so good that

you don't think about this. You know, it

doesn't go down. I know compared to

other states that um they do set the

bar. Um and they've done a great job at

staying on top of this through the

years. So, a lot of things we got to

look at going forward. Got to get a

pencil sharpened and figure out how to

get the best value for the state. So,

thank y'all for being here. Have a great

day.

>> Thank you very much. Thank y'all.

>> We're going to move right into the

Secretary of State. We'll give everybody

a couple minutes to get out of here.

I lost their math.

>> Thank you my friend very much. All

right.

Mr. Secretary, thank you and your staff

for being here. We're um sorry again for

being late. Try to keep on time. Just a

few minutes late, but the floor is Yes,

sir. Thank you, Mr. chairing and thank

you to our esteemed colleagues uh that

are here with us. I'm going to hit a

couple of of highle things here. I know

you you're busy and uh just a few things

that I wanted to to highlight um brag on

the agency a little bit uh just to let

you guys know what's going on with it um

in the efforts that we're making

obviously to run a lean organization but

an effective organization at the same

time. Uh as y'all know the first year we

were here we uh cut our rental expenses.

Uh we had a private space in Gulport. We

moved to a stateowned building uh down

there. This year, probably March, April,

we'll be moving over to the stateowned

building, saving roughly a half a

million dollars a year uh in lease

expense. Uh so that'll be a total of

about 5 and a half or 550,000 over the

the span of our time in office of

savings we found uh when it comes to

leases and moving into stateowned

buildings. So I definitely want to

highlight that. uh another savings that

we're about to experience and this is

one that's really exciting for us and

I'll kind of tell you background how we

got there. U many of you are aware of

the redistricting issues that we go

through obviously in the legislature.

There are times when those uh that

information that goes down through the

local level isn't quite put into the

maps correctly. And so we have seen some

elections where one side of the street

is in the district, the other side is

not but unfortunately both sides of the

street wind up in the wrong district. Uh

so what we have done is reached out and

this is using have a have America vote

act funds from the federal government uh

to get the geospatial data

where we now will be able to see these

addresses uh and help the local level

not make mistakes. Uh one of the great

things with that is in our agreement uh

when we we purchase this data we uh were

allowed to share with other governmental

entities. Uh so we've already entered

agreements with uh or have sent

agreements over to Pier Maris and MIMA.

So, they're going to be using the same

data that we were able to for purchase

with federal dollars uh for the state at

state use and uh it's going to save a

lot of money down the road. Those are

the first three. There are more that are

coming that we'll be able to share this

data with. I just wanted to mention a

couple things that we are saving money

on on um elections as y'all well know.

It's been a big topic the last six

years. Uh one of the things that we've

done recently, and I think this is

important for y'all to know for your

constituents, um federal maintenance is

back in the news as as y'all have seen

in Oregon. a couple other states, some

some stories that are coming out now.

One of the things that we did very

aggressively, we partnered with some

commercial uh partners and uh have have

found the one that we like the most that

saves the most money, but is also the

most accurate. Uh so we're we're getting

that data in and our voter laws will be

if not the most clean states in the

country after this happens. So I think

that's important for y'all to know if

your constituents are asking questions

about our voter roles. I just wanted to

highlight that. Uh, another thing that

we launched is called text mygov.

As y'all have heard me talk about, uh,

election integrity is is super important

and it's not something that that just we

do at the state level. Uh, but we we're

trying to educate our voters. And so,

this is a new system that will give them

information uh, for elections that are

coming up because one of the things we

hear a lot from our circuit clerks and

commissioners is people just don't know

when elections are. Uh, so this is a new

text um, tool that's going to send

messages out when elections are coming

up, when you need to be registered to

vote, etc. But the thing I'm most uh

impressed with and I think is really

more important when folks are in

precincts or when they're around

election um you know meetings etc. they

can send information straight to the

Secretary of State's office of things

that they're seeing that may look

something suspicious. I want to make

sure the Secretary of State's aware of

this. So it's a text two-way text that

they can now report to us as well. I

think that's really important. Um moving

forward again election integrity has

been the focus of ours. We also talked

to you all and you were gracious enough

to allow us to do post election audits.

Uh we're up to close to 30 counties now.

Uh so we'll have all 82 done by 2027. Uh

this has been a fantastic uh piece of

legislation that y'all passed. And one

of the biggest things that we're seeing

is, you know, there 82 counties, 82

clerks, 14 commissioners. Sometimes

somebody may read a statute a little bit

differently than somebody else in a

different county. And so what what one

of the best things about this is is

going into these hearings and be able to

say you want to re like that, but that's

not what the law intends. This is

actually how this is supposed to work.

So I think we're getting a level playing

field and and that's going to be just an

an added bonus from those post-election

audits.

We had our conference this year on the

coast. We had about 30 secretaries from

around the country come in. Uh again,

just getting a chance to show off

Mississippi. Uh we also and this is just

a little little bragging but we won our

second out of the last three years ideas

award which is voted on all the

secretaries of the most um or the I

guess let's say coolest idea that uh

that the secretary of state's office has

done uh for a new program. We won this

year's on the ambassador program that

that many of you have heard about and

have recommended students to us. So we

continue to do the really good things

that are being noticed across the

country. Uh and then lastly just a

couple of of pointed out budget

requests. I know that's the big

important thing here on the salaries. Uh

we we just want to basically restore

what LBR cut and the headcount as well

>> [clears throat]

>> um with level funding from last year. So

no increase the um donations and we've

talked about this a couple of times 3.97

million that we asked for for our new

technology. Uh and that's across the

board. That's campaign finances,

business services, you name it. if it

touches the internet. Um, as far as a

system concerns with our constituency,

it's coming through this new system. So,

we had a little bit of a delay in our

original request. The procurement

process was a little bit drawn out from

some friends of ours and another agency

um, which increased the price just a

touch. Uh, but we were able to to find

some other savings in other areas. That

said, we've we've got about 2.1 2.2 2

million left to finish building out the

system and then the implementation

piece. So, we're going to ask for a

reappropriation of the last year's

dollars that we haven't spent yet just

to continue on that 3.97 number. The

second piece of that is once we finish

all the buildout, all the

implementation, uh, as y'all are well

aware, everything moving to the cloud

now, there are new expenses when you're

dealing with these new systems. Uh, so

there'll be a 1.7 million uh, recurring

expense for the uh, the new system on

the back end once we get it built out.

Now, we've never had to pay that. And I

think it's important for you to know

kind of the background. Uh, the last

system that we had, we had some issues

getting it built and implemented. So, we

had to sue the company that was building

it. In the process of settling the

lawsuit, we were able to get the code

for the entire system. uh so we've not

had the expense to upgrade and maintain

that we have now with the new system in

the cloud. So that's why you're seeing

an additional uh I think it's 1.7 1.73

uh total number moving forward uh to

service this new system and that's

something that if you're a securities

broker if you're an LLC owner if you're

a whatever you are and you're

interacting with the state that's coming

through that new system. So this is

something that's going to be faster

processing uh cleaner uh taxpayers are

getting a benefit for their dollars here

uh and it's something that's going to be

good for the long run. Uh second or

third, excuse me, the election support

fund. As you are well aware, when

outside companies come in, LLC's,

foreign LLC's, they pay $250 uh to

register with our state. We've seen

[snorts] exponential growth in that.

When you talk about Mississippi is doing

great when bringing other businesses in.

It's not just a talking point. We're

actually seeing those dollars add up in

this fund. Uh so last year, I think we

were roughly 6 millionish somewhere in

that number. Um, so when we asked for

the the appropriations and the

authority, we we pegged that number to

what we thought the average was going to

be. Well, thankfully for Mississippi,

that number continues to grow. Uh, so

there are some trap funds in there. So,

we're going to ask you guys for the

additional authority to catch up with

the growth that we're seeing in the CSF.

And for those who are unaware,

these funds go back to the county level

to help counties purchase uh election

equipment, uh, do some training things,

cyber security, etc. So, really good

dollars for our counties. We want to

make sure that they're protected for

them. And then uh Tidlands, uh similar

situation with that as y'all are are

familiar with. It's roughly 11 to 12

million a year. Typically, reigning in

through leases, uh last year based on

some things that happened in the

legislature. The projects were not

funded. Uh so we were given roughly just

north of 6 million that goes into DMR,

which they use for operational and to

match federal funds, etc. What did not

happen was the additional 56 million

that goes to projects that you guys

appropriate dollars to for projects

along the coast. So unfortunately that's

trapped again. So this year you will see

that number increase based on we think

again about the 12 to 12 million plus

the money that was left last year that

was trapped because no projects were

awarded. Uh so that number will go up.

So I don't want y'all to think when we

ask what are they doing over there?

We're trying to capture this money

that's already in the system that we

can't spend because we don't have the

authority. So, we're not increasing our

budget. We're just asking in those two

separate ones. We need more authority to

spend the money that's already in the

account. So, just wanted to be clear on

that. Those are the things that may

stick out to you when you see the budget

numbers. Uh so, that's that's my

presentation. Happy to answer any

questions if there are

>> some. Mr. Secretary, uh Senator Seymour.

>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr.

secretary with the tidlings. Is there a

lawsuit with Beluxy?

>> So, there are there's still a couple

lawsuits out there and uh as you well

know, it's um

they're based on some uh some gray areas

that we've asked the legislature to

clean up. Uh we've got another bill this

year that we we're hoping we'll get done

uh to put this issue to rest. There are

a couple of licenses that have been

granted that historically probably would

not have been granted uh because of this

gray area. Uh so long answer to a a

short question. Yes, sir. There are

still a couple of lawsuits

>> over the past 5 to 10 years. What has

the state have had to pay as far as

representing the state's interest with

just the city of Buxy? Do you have a

figure?

>> I don't I can get you that number. I

mean, it's uh it's significant. So, the

the taxpayers have paid lawyers a whole

lot of money for this and and on the

flip side, so have the the lawsuit uh

initiators and that's hurting their

taxes as well. So, um you know, this is

one of those issues and I'll be quite

frank, I don't mind sharing this. I I

sat down with the mayor of Buxy about 3

weeks ago and the new city administrator

and the city attorney and it sounded

like there was some room to um move

forward together in a direction. So, I'm

hopeful that we can put an end to this.

Now, that said, there are still some

pending lawsuits. So, I don't I don't

want to, you know, blow smoke

>> of a different matter.

>> Correct. Uh well, they're tightens, but

>> yeah,

>> it's different plaintiffs, not the city.

Uh the city does like to get involved.

Um, but that said, I do think we're

going to be able to iron this thing out

and hopefully put this to bed. Uh, maybe

this session. Secretary, yes, sir.

>> Thank you. Uh, Senator Tim, I believe

Senator Tate has a question or two.

>> I'm just going to brag. So, in 2019 in

Lauderdale County, we had 44 to 45,000

active voters on our uh on our voter

list. And you can't just purge a voter

just because you you have a hunch. You

have to have the main the main tool that

we have is a return piece of government

mail. Anyway, about 3 weeks ago, I saw

we had 38,000. So, it went from 44 to

38. And I said to my clerk, I said,

"What's we're at?" 38,000. What

happened? Them Watson postcards. He

said, "We've been working them." So, he

they sent out postcards to every

registered voter. They came back to the

courthouse uh and then they were able to

if you have good clerks, election

commissioners, they work those cards.

And so, uh, so good job on that as far

as touching on clean voter roles.

>> Thank you. And I will tell you that's

another thing that we've been able to

save money on. The initial push that we

did with that was also federal dollars

and so the state did not have to spend

those dollars and basically what you can

do is educate voters on the elections

etc. the process. Uh, so we sent the

entire federal out and we got a lot of

mad commissioners and clerks because of

the work that it Well, the second thing

is we've done a couple of things lately.

when uh we partnered with different

states now between states. Alabama was

the first and I think many of y'all may

have heard this, but we had literally

7,000 registered voters that were both

registered in Alabama and Mississippi.

And so worst case scenario, let's say

all 7,000 live in Alabama. That means

there's 7,000 names on voter roles in

Mississippi that don't live here. That

that's where you get the mischief. So,

uh we've we've done that probably with

seven or eight states now. uh Alabama

was the first and they'll continue to

work through that. And then the second

thing that I mentioned to you guys on

the um the private side, the commercial

data, I think we sent roughly 300,000

just south of that names uh to clerks

across the the state with the

commissioners to do those. So you're

seeing a drastic increase uh in the the

activity of cleaning voter roles. That

said, what's missed on the back end? A

lot of folks don't really focus on this,

but we've helped to register roughly

400,000 voters since my time in office.

So, it's not just let's clean the vote

rolls. It's also still an active how do

you get folks out there that don't know

the process, that don't know how to

register to vote. We go to high school

football games. We go to community

college football games. We go all over

the place. So, it's an active, it's a

two-way street. You know, you hear a lot

of times people talk about uh easy to

vote, hard uh easy to vote, hard to

cheat. And we mean that. We want to make

it hard and cheap, but we also want to

make it easy to vote. And sometimes

that's the part that's missed. So when

we're helping registered voters and it's

almost 400,000 in roughly six years, I

think uh the office throws those a lot

of credit.

>> That's fabulous. That's great that

you've done that. Brings up a couple

questions to me is as you saw those that

were on both states, did you have uh

communications in Alabama to make them

aware? And what about other agencies?

Like you could have had people taking

Medicaid from both states. Is that

communications going with agencies to

try to clean up any other subsidies that

might be tied into that?

>> Yes, sir. And and I'll tell you, this is

not bragging, but it's a pat on the

agency's back. Uh early this year, we

were asked to lead a group of

secretaries of state to work with the

White House. And so what we've done with

that is taken these types of ideas where

you've got MUS between states where

we're looking at different if if it's

Medicaid, if it's some other state

revenue source or if it's federal, uh

how do we identify these individuals who

are both double registered? By the way,

it's not a crime. It is a crime to to

vote in both places. Uh so uh we're

working on some things that we can help

clean that up between states. But that

said, when we are to bring this

information, that's hard data. It's not

just making up stuff. here's the hard

data and we can work with USCIS, we can

work with um you know, Homeland

Security, we can work with these other

agencies. You're seeing a massive effort

again to make sure we've got clean voter

roles, but also to cut out fraud. And I

think that's what you're seeing across

the country right now is we finally got

people who are actively working on these

issues, not just kind of turning the

eye. Uh so really proud of that and

that's one of the things that you're

going to see more of between the states.

Uh so the 7,000 basically how that

happens is we send the list to Alabama.

uh they send to their clerks, we send

the list to us. You can't just wipe

these people off the voting ro. You have

to send them, as Senator Tate was

talking about, uh a piece of of mail

andor other areas of of of work that we

can do uh to get those returns. And if

they don't send them back, then that's

when you can start the process. But it's

not just an easy get off the rudder

rolls. That's not how it happens.

>> Thank you. I believe Senator Seymour has

another question.

>> Yes. um dealing with our small

corporations and and small business

the yearly filing.

Is there any way you can send a notice

out? I mean, you send them they're

delinquent and that's been my biggest

for business that don't have an

accountant on their payroll or visit

them every month and it comes around in

those summer months when everybody is

busy, right? Is there any way we can

send out a notice somewhat

electronically or

>> on that? By the way, the numbers are

roughly two million uh in Thailand's

dollars that we've spent on lawsuits uh

over the last years.

>> Yes, sir. So, it's a big dollar. Um

on your question specifically there,

yes, sir. We do a lot of social media

work uh trying to educate our our

business community on when the dates are

coming up to file. One of the things

that we've looked at and not throwing

stones here, but we talked to do early

on in I guess the four or five years ago

and basically said, "Look, why is there

not just maybe some kind of check box we

can put on the f returns, state tax

returns that says I'm an LLC. This is my

annual report and you just transmit that

data to me." That's one last thing they

got on their plate. They're going to

file their taxes and it'd be real easy.

Well, we were told our systems can't

talk to your system. Come on. We can

figure that out. So, I want you to you

to know it isn't just sending the notice

up, but we're also looking at active

ways how to take that burden off of

them. Uh, some folks have said, "Well,

what if you do it every few years?"

There's some there's some ideas out

there. I do think it's important that we

keep those those clean. Um, you know,

one of the things that we have seen in

y'all past, I guess last year or two

years ago, uh, with the nonprofits, um,

making sure that those aren't just

flowing around out there because of the

fraud that that we have seen of late.

Um, can I say one more thing? Yes, sir.

This is I'm not kind of lobbying, but

not really lobbying. This campaign

finance report um legislation that we've

got with you guys. I want you to to

understand there are two very clean

instances where this would have really

helped. Uh, one in the Delta where we

saw the drug trafficking charges come

through. They ran that money through

campaign finance. The second one again

was in Jackson. They ran that money

through campaign finance. So, if we can

have we've tried to push is this

electronic filing where it's one system

where everybody has to file the same,

it's much easier to track, it's cleaner,

and it'd be much more helpful to law

enforcement as well. So, just a quick

plug for that and uh we'll we'll talk

more about that later.

>> Any other questions,

>> Mr. Chairman? Pleasure.

>> Thank you. I think um in light of the

progress you made on clear, you and your

team are back. So, so thank y'all for

the hard work and the diligence and in

trying to keep as clean as they can be.

Yes, sir. Thank you much. Nothing else

we're done. Thank you.

Oh,

you got