How to read DIFFICULT passages in the Old Testament | EP.5 The Bible with Richard and John

Seeing the Old Testament through Christ

tinted spectacles is to see it for the

first time in 3D.

>> In the Old Testament, it particularly

difficult when coming across passages

where God seems to command violence. How

should we read passages like that?

>> I think we should read them. God is

called the Lord of Hosts, which means

the Lord of armies, right? He is a

military god. He commands that teenagers

be stoned to death if they misbehave. In

the New Testament, you've got well

Jesus. [music] He seems nice. But

actually, it's not that simple because

Jesus doesn't always seem as nice as you

might think.

>> Richard, a lot of people find in the Old

Testament it particularly difficult when

coming across passage where God seems to

command violence. A classic example

being the book of Joshua and they

entering into the promised land and the

defeat of the Canaanites. How should we

read passages like that?

>> I think we should read them. We should

read them with humility. That's the

first thing. We should accept the fact

that these are difficulties and not try

to paper over them or say, "Oh, but it's

fine." Because it really isn't fine.

It's extremely discomforting and we

should allow these passages to

discomfort us. I think that's the first

thing to say. I think the second thing

to say is we need to read them in the

light of Christ

because I think without Christ it seems

to me those passages are most obviously

to be read quite literally.

One could sympathize if we didn't have

Christ with a fairly fundamentalist

reading of book of Joshua which would

insist that for example that what we

call the holy land belongs to the Jewish

people because God says so that uh the

people of Israel have the absolute right

to use any means necessary to impose

their will upon that land.

we've seen even today uh the kind of

difficulties that that attitude um

brings with it. So it seems to me that's

problematic.

If you read them in the light of Christ,

if you insist that every passage in the

scriptures must speak to us of Christ,

then you deal with it by saying, "How

might this passage speak to us of

Christ?"

Christ who gives way in the end to the

Cyrophenician woman. She's a she's a

Philistine, right? She's a Canaanite and

and he gives her what she wants because

I think as she makes him laugh reading

kind of between the lines, he likes her

and likes her cheek. Um

>> this is the scraps off the table.

>> The scraps from the table. Exactly. So

we have Christ saying to the apostles um

from the mountain at the end of St.

Matthew's gospel go out to all the

nations you know teaching them to do all

I have commanded you etc etc so in that

light these things take on a new hue and

I think we have to read them where the

literal meaning is obviously

unacceptable

that's when we have permission to read

them in some kind of figurative way

origin the great um early Christian

biblical scholar makes precisely this

point he says as a general rule you

should read the Bible literally and the

spiritual meaning should come from the

literal meaning rather than being an

alternative to it but when the literal

meaning is obviously unacceptable is

obviously wrong then you can look for a

spiritual meaning which is distinct from

the literal meaning and I think to be

honest you have to do that so for

example we can read The story of the can

I say the word exterpation? I think I

can. You just did. Can we we can read

the story of the exterpation of the

Canaanites from the land as being really

a story about the need to cast out sin

to cast out temptation because of course

the Canaanites are a temptation to the

people of Israel. And you see this in

later books of the Bible precisely

because they don't exterpate the

Canaanites as they were supposed to.

They keep falling into the sin of

idolatry following the gods and

goddesses of the people around about

them. And this represents the fact that

if we don't avoid the near occasion of

sin, we will fall into sin. So you can

read it in in that light, I think. Does

that mean though is there a risk um in

in that way of seeing things that we see

Jesus and the God of the New Testament

as that's really God and the Old

Testament is is not quite God or hasn't

got it quite right and we're gradually

getting there when we get to Jesus?

>> Uh yes. Uh I don't think I don't think

so. I I don't think we can see God as

gradually getting there. I think we can

see humanity as gradually getting there.

God of course doesn't change. Um, when I

instruct people in the faith, I I always

begin with what we like to call day deo

uno of the one God, the the fundamental

doctrine of God. And I say to God is

amongst other things by definition

unchangeable,

incapable of change, incapable of

suffering,

etc. And I say, you always have to

remember that this is true when you then

start to read about God in the

scriptures. The God that the scriptures

reveals to us must be God and therefore

he must be unchangeable. So when it

seems as though God is changing in some

way, we'll come back to the question of

whether it even seems like that. But

let's allow for a moment that it does.

If it seems as though God is changing in

some way, softening perhaps you might

say, getting nicer, um that can't really

be true. And therefore it must be that

humanity is changing that in fact it is

our relationship to him which is

changing and therefore he seems

different to us but not because he's

different in himself.

The idea that the god of the old

testament is a fundamentally different

god from the god of the new testament is

one of the earliest heresies in the

church. The heresy of marian and it is a

fundamental and dangerous error. an

error which is is liable if we're not

careful to lead actually to

anti-semitism which itself is a heresy.

So now the question is does God seem to

be changing?

I think undoubtedly there are passages

in the Old Testament where God's

violence

is emphasized. God is called the Lord of

hosts which means the Lord of armies,

right? He is a military god. Um he

commands jihad and ethnic cleansing in

in the land. Uh he commands that um

teenagers be stoned to death if they

misbehave. Um and all sorts of you know

the the killing of witches and all sorts

of things as well as obviously animal

sacrifice. Then in the New Testament

you've got well Jesus he seems nice. But

actually, it's not that simple because

Jesus doesn't always seem as nice as you

might think. Where, for example, do we

learn about hell?

Nowhere in the Old Testament do we find

hell. You find shale, but that's not

hell. It's kind of a shady land of

greyness, but it's certainly not the the

perpetual fire of anguish. It's not

weeping and nashing of teeth. If you

want weeping and nashing of teeth, you

get it from Jesus. If you want absolute

foaming at the mouth condemnation of

sin, you get it from Jesus Christ. And

similarly in the Old Testament, there

are some wonderful passages about the

love of God. Um I'm thinking about

passages in in the prophet Hosea, for

example, um in some of the Psalms. um

the idea of how Israel is is is a

beloved child of God and also Israel is

in other passages God's beloved bride.

How much and how tenderly he loves her.

And of course, it is in the Old

Testament that we get the two great

commandments of love. Love the Lord your