AGI: Francois Chollet + Sam Altman

What's it's going to mean to to be

[music] human like 50 years from now?

>> I think the world is finally taking

seriously, and we've been waiting for

this for years, that social contract is

going to have to evolve and maybe sooner

than people thought.

>> What are your predictions for when this

breaks [music] 85%?

>> Yeah, I think it really depends how much

effort the frontier labs are putting

into targeting Arc AGI 3 explicitly.

With the new set of models that I think

will come out, the impact that [music]

the technology will have on accelerating

science and accelerating the economy. We

may be wrong, we may be over optimistic,

but it feels like it's about to be

absolutely massive. There are a lot of

interesting projects, [music] and yet

there's this one new thing that's really

working.

Hi guys, I'm D, a partner at Menlo

Ventures. I'm one of the early investors

in India. And we are investors in

Anthropic.

So

not to say that will

color the discussion at all.

Um

but yeah, let's get started. Um

The first thing I wanted to ask you guys

is, you know

both of you are parents,

not just

founders and CEOs of companies.

And today when I go and talk to a lot of

parents

they're quite concerned about their kids

and the future.

As as fathers

what do you think about the most when

raising your kids today? Is it any

different from before? What really

matters to you when it comes to raising

your kids?

Maybe we'll start with Francois.

Yeah, and it's in my mind a lot. It's in

my mind a lot. It's like clearly they're

going to grow up in a world that's very

different from the world in which I grew

up in. It's expensive child. And yeah, I

think about it like the obviously their

their relationship to technology is

going to be completely different. You

know, they're they're they're going to

grow up in this Star Trek world where

they can just, you know, talk to a

computer and and have the computer do

things. Uh while back in my day, you

know, we had we had to write code like

character by character.

Um yeah, and so actually I'm a I'm a bit

concerned as well because, you know, I'm

I'm wondering what's going to happen to

human human agency. And and and our

ability to you know think independently.

Like are we are we just going to

outsource our minds? Like, you know, our

our thoughts, our cognition, and all our

abilities to the machine? What what are

we going to retain? You know, what

what's what's it going to mean to to be

human in like not in 10 years from now,

but like 50 years from now? Like my son,

my daughter, they're they're they're

going to live to see the the 22nd

century, right? That's that's that's

something I think about a lot.

What about you, Sam?

You know, actually

I think it'll be great. I I understand

that throughout history parents have

always freaked out about the rate of

change, wondered how life is going to be

for their kids.

I think it is awesome that our kids are

going to grow up in this Star Trek world

where you just ask a computer for

anything. Uh

and it does it, and I think they will

you know, look at us like I kind of

looked at my parents with this

like, "Oh man, you really had to do

things before computers?"

Uh and my parents worried that I wasn't

going to learn anything either cuz I was

just going to look everything up on

Google. It turns out I was able to have

a fulfilling career of a kind they

hadn't

they didn't have a model for. And

I assume that

our kids will have the same experience

and they will do things um

that absolutely astonish us.

That they will look back on us with look

back on our lives with some like

pity is maybe too strong of a word, but

man, you all had it hard and bad and

miserable. And this the quality of life

will be so incredible. Um

I I know actually I think all those

things.

I think it's amazing that

my kids will

never

be smarter than a computer, and they

will never expect that a computer can't

do these incredible things, and they

will they will achieve and they will

grow up expecting to achieve

these amazing

feats, and I think they'll have more

agency and more will than any of us do,

and they'll like they'll grow up

expecting that. It won't be weird. Um

and they'll develop with that way in the

same way that we developed with the

computers and

thought of all the things we could do

that our parents didn't think of.

Emotionally

I'm like

oof.

You know

what's this really going to be like?

Do you think just a quick follow-up on

that? Do you think in that world, you

know, when we grew up, intelligence

probably mattered a lot. You know, our

parents probably were like, "Be smart."

You know, you guys went to some pretty

good schools, you learned a lot. Do you

think that still continues to matter in

this world or not so much or maybe a

different kind of intelligence? What are

your thoughts?

So intelligence is really the ability to

adapt, and the the more rapidly the

world changes, the more important it is

to be able to adapt to it. So

personally, I trust my kids that, you

know

they will see a level of change uh

technological change and social change

that I haven't seen in my life, but I I

trust them to adapt like kids kids are

the most adaptable ones in the world.

I'd love to like get a peek into your

into your lives. Like what's something

that's happened in the last week or two?

Like a small anecdote you could share

that just tell us about tell us about

what goes on behind the scenes.

Sure. I mean I can yeah. [laughter]

So what one thing I've I've been doing

for the last few weeks with my son. So

my son is a huge Minecraft fan. Like

he's he's he's turning five soon, and so

that's it's playing so much Minecraft

and watching Minecraft videos on YouTube

and so on. And what I've been doing is

that I've been

live coding effectively

sort of like simple

pretty future complete Minecraft clone.

And in fact using Codex, so thank you

Sam for that. Um

and it's been it's been so fun. And

basically so my son is telling me, you

know, what what what he wants to see in

the game, what features he wants, and

he's he's pretty creative about it. And

then I tell Codex to do it. And I

haven't I haven't written a single line

of code. So it's it's it's it's been a

very fun experience.

What about you, Sam?

Um

I I think one interesting

like I'm very grateful to get to work on

so many interesting things and

built my kids can't build the Codex yet,

but we can, you know, put blocks

together and stuff. Um that's the most

fun, but the most kind of intellectually

stimulating thing is

I think the world is finally taking

seriously